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What is wrong with this shot? [M8]

docmoore

Subscriber and Workshop Member
Bresson was neither lazy nor inept Jono.
I wonder if many of us will not attempt similar endeavors later in life....having the luxury of time allows one many diversions that do not present themselves in the rush of the daily decathalon.

My problem is that I have difficuly positing a straight line with a T-square.

Bob
 

jonoslack

Active member
Re: Jono...

Jono, you have been missed in that other forum... and thanks for the welcome. I actually joined back in March I believe but just have not posted. I have been reading a bit. I see that Tim, Terry and a few others are here It's good to be in such good company.

And once again.. great job with the M9 photos you have taken.

As for Irakly.. well, I still can't figure out most of his stuff.... but I respect it... Aligators, nudes or whatever.
Hi Jim
I miss the other forum too . . . it's just time, and things are slow enough around here to be able to keep up.

The M9 was fun, and a great opportunity . . . I don't need congratulations as well (gratefully received all the same).

Irakly is a mate of Marc's so there was a nice contrast between the alligator and the Chihuahua (the principle of the remark being the same).
 

jonoslack

Active member
Hi Bob
I don't know Jono...messing with a Texan's car is fairly dangerous stuff -
I would refer you to Lyle Lovett's Don't Touch My Hat. Similar stuff!
Wow . . . I've spent the whole day listening to 'Natural Forces' over and over and over again. I wouldn't say I was a natural Texan exactly:ROTFL: But he is a real hero of mine (and has been since he took his horse on his boat) . . there was a wonderful interview on an arts program in the UK last week . . is he the nicest bloke that ever lived?

Besides it is a DRIVE THROUGH...no walking involved. We may not ride horses in the city but drive through is very Dallas. The only carbon footprints here are related to burnt end ribs (with or w/o jalopeno) ....also highly recommended.:ROTFL:

I always like seeing the vision that others project in their pictures...helps my myopic view of the world.

Bob
But . . there is an argument that if an explanation is needed to 'get it' then perhaps . . .
 

fotografz

Well-known member
Well, I couldn't answer until I'd had an artistic lead in from Mark and Neil . . . .
:p
Actually, I think that you both have good points.

Still, first of all I should welcome Jim - great to have you hear, please do hang around.

Marc. whilst I understand you . . . I think your Chihuahua is a pretty poor substitute for Irakly's alligator . . . (one of my formative photographic moments was having Irakly point out that picture I was proud of needed an alligator in the top left hand corner).

I also agree with Seascape about cropping the cars. . . .

Surely the point of the picture is the visual impact . . and it does have impact (surely we can all agree). It isn't boring, and it isn't unattractive, and it has a bit of the down and out to give it a feeling of weight. There's plenty of human impact . . perhaps adding an actual human (or a Chihuahua) would simply transfer the impact and change it into something quite other. (my picture really DID need an alligator).

Neil - post processing surely is wonderful . . . as long as it isn't just an end in itself (and I don't think it is here). As for being a red rag to a bull, Jim's an intelligent guy, he thought he'd like to join in here, and surely this is a good way to do it?

I actually like the picture (apart from agreeing with Seascape about the cropping). I'm not sure that it has a great deal to say . . beyond the aesthetic. . but perhaps that's a good thing?
Jono, if Irakly thought an image needed an alligator, there was probably an actual reason behind it related in some way to the over-all image content, not just for some superficial shock value, (unless he was just trying to shock you out of the box, which he has been know to do). Usually, it's some obscure Russian cultural joke with him. That was the point of the down-and-out Chihuahua joke ... which is a pop cultural thing in the USA ... The Taco Bell dog that got fired from the big time and all that. But if you have to explain a joke, well .... aeee, Chihuahua!

All visual puns aside, it's a nice photo. If it were part of a long range study to glamorize disappearing icons or something like that, it might have legs.

Setting aside this specific image, it all comes down to "intent" ... it's pretty common for artist to declare "intent" ... what's the purpose? It doesn't have to be intellectual, literal, logical or cultural ...

-Marc
 

docmoore

Subscriber and Workshop Member
Jono,

I think that you would fit in just fine....let us know when you can come and stay a spell. Lyle, horses, small brew houses and good food aplenty in this part of the states.

You are right he is an amazingly genuine spirit...I still wonder what that 'pretty woman' was thinking. Her loss!:ROTFL:

I think that there is a connection between parts of Texas and the coast of the UK or up in Yorkshire near Hawes or maybe Upper Slaughter in the Cotswolds. I would be happy being planted in any of the above.:deadhorse:

Bob
 

fotografz

Well-known member
Youve not been in my darkroom or seen me coming out!In the end I was issued with "printing overalls" by my wife.:)
Oh, I've had my bouts with darkroom chaos ... pretty stinky and messy.

But it's a hospital operating room next to my painting studio. :)
 

docmoore

Subscriber and Workshop Member
All visual puns aside, it's a nice photo. If it were part of a long range study to glamorize disappearing icons or something like that, it might have legs.
-Marc
Jim,

You should pull a few of the FW carney pics and post them....following along that theme.

Bob
 

jonoslack

Active member
Jono, if Irakly thought an image needed an alligator, there was probably an actual reason behind it related in some way to the over-all image content, not just for some superficial shock value,
Absolutely - nothing to do with shock value (although it may have been a shock). It was probably the most beneficial and important single thing that ever happened to my photography, and I still often thing "does this need an alligator?"

That was the point of the down-and-out Chihuahua joke ... which is a pop cultural thing in the USA ... The Taco Bell dog that got fired from the big time and all that. But if you have to explain a joke, well .... aeee, Chihuahua!
:ROTFL: I didn't know about the Taco Bell dog . . but I absolutely understood the joke.
All visual puns aside, it's a nice photo. If it were part of a long range study to glamorize disappearing icons or something like that, it might have legs.

Setting aside this specific image, it all comes down to "intent" ... it's pretty common for artist to declare "intent" ... what's the purpose? It doesn't have to be intellectual, literal, logical or cultural ...

-Marc
Well actually, this boils down to my post . . . I understand that for many photographers a photograph must have an 'intent'. But there is another (theoretical at least) school of thought where it only needs to have a result (although that result probably does need to be intellectual, literal, logical or aesthetic).
 
N

nei1

Guest
I wonder if many of us will not attempt similar endeavors later in life....having the luxury of time allows one many diversions that do not present themselves in the rush of the daily decathalon.

My problem is that I have difficuly positing a straight line with a T-square.

Bob
Bob,one of my best memories ,from many years ago, is of a beautiful young girl grimly holding onto a yard wide canvas against a powerful buffeting wind on the north cornish coast,as she painted the incoming tide.I had my camera with me but I just looked on at this vision,mouth half open inept ,stupid,dumbstruck.

If I saw the same thing today Id probably fall over the cliff as well!:ROTFL:
 

jonoslack

Active member
Jono,

I think that you would fit in just fine....let us know when you can come and stay a spell. Lyle, horses, small brew houses and good food aplenty in this part of the states.
LOL - don't tempt me . . but I've only been riding for 6 months!
You are right he is an amazingly genuine spirit...I still wonder what that 'pretty woman' was thinking. Her loss!:ROTFL:
Maybe, but perhaps it says something for her that it happened in the first place . . and apparently they're still friends.
I think that there is a connection between parts of Texas and the coast of the UK or up in Yorkshire near Hawes or maybe Upper Slaughter in the Cotswolds. I would be happy being planted in any of the above.:deadhorse:
Bob
Wow - you be careful with those horses! Lyle certainly wouldn't approve!- Texas seems like a different planet to me . . but listening to Sun and Moon and Stars (right now). I can certainly see the point.
 

jonoslack

Active member
Bob,one of my best memories ,from many years ago, is of a beautiful young girl grimly holding onto a yard wide canvas against a powerful buffeting wind on the north cornish coast,as she painted the incoming tide.I had my camera with me but I just looked on at this vision,mouth half open inept ,stupid,dumbstruck.

If I saw the same thing today Id probably fall over the cliff as well!:ROTFL:
If that was a beautiful young Cornish girl . . and if you'd approached her, she probably would have pushed you off the cliff :ROTFL: (especially if you had a receding hairline!).
 

Gary P

Member
Hi Jim,

I like the image. It's definitely surreal but it's an artist's poetic license as an art form in my opinion. I see a slice of Americana, power lines feeding the neon lights, cars, an American flag. It works for me.

I think there are different types of photography, some forms require adherence to ethical boundaries, while others are free for the photographer to step outside the lines to produce an image that he/she feels represents an interpretation of reality that will invoke an emotional response in the viewer.

This image has style.

Gary P
 

docmoore

Subscriber and Workshop Member
Bob,one of my best memories ,from many years ago, is of a beautiful young girl grimly holding onto a yard wide canvas against a powerful buffeting wind on the north cornish coast,as she painted the incoming tide.I had my camera with me but I just looked on at this vision,mouth half open inept ,stupid,dumbstruck.

If I saw the same thing today Id probably fall over the cliff as well!:ROTFL:
Every Spring we host my daughter for a few days at an inn in the Cotswolds in a small town named Burford. They have an extensive collection of paintings by Katherine Lightfoot....if I could have one wish it would be to paint half as well as she.

Dartmoor and the North Devon Coast...what I would give to spend a lifetime there.

Link: http://www.katlightfoot.com/

And yes I would trade all of my cameras tomorrow if I could have the time and the skill to pursue something as pure as this.

Bob
 

carstenw

Active member
With photography there comes a certain responsability to the viewer,a debt to reality.If one wishes to "interpret"(for want of a better word)to the nth degree maybe one should stop being lazy and learn to paint.
I think you forgot an "IMO" there... I happen to think that the photographer's primary and *only* obligation is to the own "inner" creative voice. There is no obligation to the expectations of others, other than the imagined.

I also don't think that a photographer who doesn't want to use realism as a personal style is being lazy and should be a painter; that is something one might have expected to hear from a 19th century photography luddite, but not after Warhol.

Anyway, back to the present.

I have been thinking of the image, and why I like it, but why I don't think it is complete somehow. I think that Marc and Jono are on the right track, and I think that this would work much better in a set. The message that it carries is not strong enough to walk it alone.
 
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N

nei1

Guest
I think the photographer's primary and only obligation is to the own "inner" creative voice. There is no obligation to the expectations of others at all.

Completely agree carstenw,.......but that doesnt mean that I have to like it.

I suggested this website a while ago that shows some extraordinary work,very manipulated, albeit in an analogue way.Dont compare this with someone who thinks they are some sort of creative genius because theyve turned up the colour and added a bit of vignetting in photoshop .
http://www.parkeharrison.com/slides-architechsbrother/index.html
 
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carstenw

Active member
Completely agree carstenw,.......but that doesnt mean that I have to like it.
Oh, fully agreed! There are lots of styles I don't like. The missing IMO in your post made it sound like you were making some kind of absolutist statement though, which is what got me writing.

Personally I shoot almost exclusively in a fairly straight style, perhaps tweaking the saturation once in a while, setting black levels and so on, but I do enjoy seeing different kinds of work, and the HDR style has a lot of superficial attraction to it. I wonder which of those works will last the test of time though.

My suggestion to dial down the saturation and vignetting just a tad was to bring it back across some kind of line in the sand, not to bring it all the way back to reality, which I think wouldn't help the image. The strong colours and the sh*tty weather do work together to make some kind of statement about Americana, as someone else put it, and if the colours were real-life drab, that would be gone. The image also would be much less without the Stars and Stripes.

Very cool site, btw. Very strong vision.
 

jonoslack

Active member
Completely agree carstenw,.......but that doesnt mean that I have to like it.

I suggested this website a while ago that shows some extraordinary work,very manipulated, albeit in an analogue way.Dont compare this with someone who thinks they are some sort of creative genius because theyve turned up the colour and added a bit of vignetting in photoshop .
http://www.parkeharrison.com/slides-architechsbrother/index.html
Hi Neil - we all really enjoyed that website. I also think that to imply Jim considers himself as some sort of creative genius is very unfair.

However, I reckon that both these approaches are something of a cheap thrill (Jim and Parke Harrison) - something I'm often very guilty of too.

I'm afraid that subtlety in photography is rather a devalued currency (if it ever was of value, which I rather doubt). Still, there is plenty of good intelligent stuff about, it's just that it tends to get ignored.
 

Stuart Richardson

Active member
Jim -- if you want an honest dissenting critique, I will try to give one. I will say that I tend to prefer less processed images, but that is not really my main hurdle in this photo. I don't really see any of the photographer in this image, which I think is usually a huge part of making a memorable photograph. There does not seem to be a point of view or intention to the image. It is just a square, straight on shot of a taco stand, that I imagine would look just like that if any of us were standing next to you. The best images seem to demonstrate how a photographer feels about a place -- even though the photo is not of them, you can see the hand of the artist in its creation. You could look of Kertesz's photos of Paris or Josef Sudek, even Ansel Adams in Yosemite or for a similar idea to yours, you might look at Todd Hido's photography. I guess the question to ask is "how does this make you feel"? Why are you interested in this taco stand, what sort of mood are you trying to demonstrate, and how has the choice of composition and processing been employed to further that goal? And the answer does not really come through for me in this photo. And don't get me wrong, there are certainly far worse photos out there, and I surely do not hate the image or find it bad, but you were asking for a serious critique, so this was my impression.
 
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