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New owner of Leica

fotografz

Well-known member
Cutting prices in half would speed up the elimination of Leica IMO. It would work only if all cost aspects of production were cut in half, including labor. Otherwise someone would have to make up the 50% short fall for years while sales ramped up (sales demand they can't even meet now). I can't imagine who that investor would be in this world economy.

I may be wrong, but I'm not sure Leicas made by 12 year olds in some remote 3rd world village would fly with Leica buyers. ;)
 

Steen

Senior Subscriber Member
:p thanks Jono, hey how much did you pay for that red Super Duper dot in your signature, I want such a one too ... :D
 
N

nei1

Guest
I may be wrong, but I'm not sure Leicas made by 12 year olds in some remote 3rd world village would fly with Leica buyers. ;)

I think it might be interesting to have a starving childs finger print right in the middle of the screen of every new M9 .
 

fotografz

Well-known member
I think it might be interesting to have a starving childs finger print right in the middle of the screen of every new M9 .
No, the finger print could be that of the Quality Control person back in Germany after eating a Bratwurst sandwich ...

Better a test photo on every M9 SD card ... the starving child with their dependent extended family in the background snapped by Sebastiano Salgado.


:(
 

wolverine

New member
Too many serious responses to a tongue in cheek response to a tongue in cheek original post. But alas, life is way too short to worry about whether leica will survive or not. Got too many photos to take. :ROTFL::wtf::talk028:
 

wolverine

New member
While my fingers still have life... As the treasurer of a billion $ plus corporation, I have forgotten more about the economics and calculus of supply and demand, inputs, production, micro and macro factors, marginal this and marginal that, than most people will know in a lifetime. I would certainly love to debate whether leica can cut cost and prices on lenses and grow market share. But that is a conversation for another day. I also understand that increased market share may not be leica's motive and certainly not the motive of some leica officianados. As a finance exec that thought deeply troubles me. Probably why corporations need more than just finance execs making decisions. Over the past number of years leica has had its share of financial issues and senior management turnover even before the recent economic meltdown. Will they survive with their current model? The opinions are across a very wide continuum on that one. Based on my limited outsider, current understanding of their model, it is an investment I would not make make. $77 million may not be enough. Though I would love to study their model and see what they really are about. In the meantime, I expect my m lenses will still be providing incredible results 20 years from now. To quote a mentor of mine when discussing a friend of his lamenting over the cost of owning a private jet. "If you are worried about the annual cost of flying in a personal jet, you can't afford it!" Perhaps the allure of owning leica. If you are concerned with price, you probably can't afford it, but want one. A gross generalization, I know. But there is some wisdom there. A lot of us just suck it up and pay to have the quality. I really do hope that 20 years from now leica is not just a memory. Which begs the question: what will a digital camera look like in 20 years and will lenses even be an issue? I may not be able to use an m lens. Shudder that thought! We will be wearing 20x zoom lens glasses with a 100 mp mini cam in the frame wireless linked to a cray supercomputer wrist watch!!!! Holy radiation, Batman! Enjoy your leicas while you can. :ROTFL::wtf::talk028:
 

beamon

New member
Despite Wolverine's "tongue-in-cheek" 'plan', I detect the respirations of a true Texas capitalist and it's nice to see that kind of writing nowadays.

Obviously, that plan would only work if Leica's products were more commodity oriented. They're not, and that's by Leica's choice; though a choice borne of necessity. Herr Kaufmann wouldn't risk the investment necessary to bring their products into that category, even if he could afford it.

Leica exists, and always has, as a niche company catering to those who are willing and able to write the necessary checks. I'm sure that they studied the market and its demographics with tools and economists far beyond my ken, but I remain convinced that they made the wrong decision in dropping further R development in favor of the S2.

As my pappy used to say, "son, that's why there's chocolate and vanilla".
It'll be facinating to watch Leica's choice of flavor play out!
 

jonoslack

Active member
Hi There
Leica exists, and always has, as a niche company catering to those who are willing and able to write the necessary checks. I'm sure that they studied the market and its demographics with tools and economists far beyond my ken, but I remain convinced that they made the wrong decision in dropping further R development in favor of the S2.
If that actually was the case, then I would agree. But I think that events (the world depression) intervened. As I understood it the S2 was supposed to be the proving ground for technologies which would flow down to the R10. When they decided to stop developing the R10, the S2 was already developed enough to make it worth while continuing. (of course, I could be wrong :)

So they didn't drop the R in favour of the S2, they simply dropped the R because circumstances had changed (and the S2 was basically finished).
 

Steen

Senior Subscriber Member
Personally I think the S2 project originally was the R10 "larger than full frame DSLR" project - Leicas own expression, even in the S2 press release 23. Sept. 2008.
 

beamon

New member
Hi There

If that actually was the case, then I would agree. But I think that events (the world depression) intervened. As I understood it the S2 was supposed to be the proving ground for technologies which would flow down to the R10. When they decided to stop developing the R10, the S2 was already developed enough to make it worth while continuing. (of course, I could be wrong :)

So they didn't drop the R in favour of the S2, they simply dropped the R because circumstances had changed (and the S2 was basically finished).
OK, but the net result is still that the R has been dropped. And, the reason has to be either their studies did not see the market as viable and/or they decided not to commit the money necessary for R development. That, too, would have been highly influenced by their market studies. If not, then Leica is just plain out of resources.

Though the 35 format market is vast compared to near MF market, they'd be butting heads with Canon/Nikon which is daunting in light of how previous R models fared. Tough market for Leica to be in at this time. I don't envy their position. They've carved out their market position with a scalpel - let's hope the operation is a success.
 

carstenw

Active member
My personal theory is that if the S, X, and M systems are successful, there might be an R revival. They just don't want to commit to it.
 
C

coolfotog

Guest
My personal theory is that if the S, X, and M systems are successful, there might be an R revival. They just don't want to commit to it.
Quoting Amy Kosh of Leica at the Toronto launch of the S2, "It would make good business sense for Leica to revive the R series. It would be very hard to ignore."
 

carstenw

Active member
I think that what we had in the last few years was the wiggleroom that they allowed themselves. At some point they have to say something firm. You cannot say that there might be something in the future for years on end when you really don't know.

However, there is a long and rich R history at Leica, and I would be surprised if this year was the end of it. I think it will return if the company does well, perhaps in 2-3 years when the S2 lessons have been learned and the economy is on its feet again.
 
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