What's the next "hot" lens?

[gogopix]

I remember over the years this and earlier ("NOT TO BE NAMED") fora had this crowd gaga over various lenses; prices jumped, images abounded, trades were made on

The 35-75/ 2.8 R
The 135mm R "canada"
the C/Y 21/2.8
The 15mm R
the 12mm Voightlander for M
the 105-280 R
Sumarex 85
the 400mm 6.2 (sometime 560mm)
The "MATE" (that played Rodney Dangerfield until someone said 'better than the primes' and you couldn't get one for your first born :ROTFL: )

Guess what; I have them all (except MATE - kept my firstborn instead) and use them all regularly (except 21.2.8 that is a bit overtaken by the WATE)

Those were the days of enthusiasm- and were not off base.

SO, what's now? Is it all going to be Medium Format? (until Guy rediscovers the DMR ) or is there still a Leica contingent snuffling out the gems of the past (one candidate, the 16mm)

Come on the R isnt really dead (I just saw a Pentax K to Sony/Minolta "convergence lens" adapter 1:1. Leica could easily make an R lens to S adapter, single elemnet, to adjust for the registration distance, or maybe I WILL!) I will put $10 that either that or a 4/3 camera, 20+ MP for R lenses)

The M is a winner, and can take R lenses.

There are TONNES of older M lenses. SO, what the next hot one??



Victor

 

[Stuart Richardson]

Here is my list of M mount lenses that may have a boost due to M9 users discovering them -- basically these are lenses that would not have made much sense on the M8, but have been brought back to the front due to the reappearance of full frame and lack of IR filters:

90mm f/2.8 TE -- smallest M 90mm, very sharp stopped down, softer and flattering wide open.

Any of the Konica M-Hexanon lenses -- these lenses were as good as the equivalent M lenses, but not many people outside of Japan ever got a chance to use them or were spooked by rumors of incompatibility. Those who did use them (or continue to) are suitably impressed.

135mm f/4 Tele-Elmar M -- 135mm's did not make much sense on the M8...the Tele-Elmar is cheap, readily available, outstandingly sharp and one of those "apo but not labeled apo" lenses. It is a half a stop slower than the 135/3.4, but the differences in performance are very minor. The 135/4 TE is sharper than even most current M lenses.

Old Canon and Nikon rangefinder lenses -- lenses like the Canon 35mm f/1.8, 135/3.5, 100/3.5, Nikon 50mm f/1.4 and 105mm lenses may find their way onto M9's that are looking for a classic look. These lenses are usually not too hard to find, and they are small, sharp (stopped down anyway) and have really nice signatures.

The Canon 50mm f/.95 -- filters are no longer a problem and you are not using it on a cropped frame. This is always a lens a bit out of left field, but maybe it will become really popular again now that it can be used as a 50mm and without a huge IR filter.

 

[Seascape]

The 35 Summilux ASPH in chrome.

Yes, there may be a better design coming, but this version does everything well (if calibrated correctly).
It has the look and feel of a quality optic, and the performance is classic Leica :thumbup:

 

[glenerrolrd]

Victor

Interesting subject for the gear collector in me. If you look just at the M lenses...I believe it will be much different going to the M9 than we experienced with the M8.

With the M8 ...you could begin to use older designs ...that produce beautiful soft renderings in the digital environment. Adding contrast(not really practical with slide film) was easy . Users complained that the modern designs (asphs for example ) were too sharp and contrasty (clinical in the way they render). Everybody had to find a pre asph 50mm summilux . My older M lenses sold in a few hours as I was preconditioned to upgrade to the asph designs.

The other big trend was to adjust your "kit" for the crop sensor. This wasn t too difficult as you could move to a 21/2.8asph (28FOV) and the 28/2asph(37FOV). 35mm became less popular as did the 90mm...while the 75 s picked up. This also gave new life to the VC 12 and 15 ..which we really now your 16 and 20mm FOV .

But the M9 is different IMHO ..beyond the rotation back to the traditional FOV ...35/50/90 and 28.....the M9 requires the better correction and higher resolution of the modern lenses. You can see the softness in the older lenses ..they are still useful but the M9 shines with say the 50 1.4asph .

The VC lenses are also handicapped by lack of symmetry which causes the RED corners in the M9 ...a problem we didn t see on the M8.

So I believe the hot lenses will be the best of the M class ...the 50/1.4asph; the 35/2asph and the 28/2asph. The sleepers ..forgotten but with new life on the M9 ...will be the 21 and 24/2.8asph and the 90/2.8Elmarit. Leica would be smart to introduce new summiluxes at 28,35 and 75. They would be over $6K but will sell enough to justify the design.

Switching to DSLR ....Zeiss has done a great job of creating a traditional manual focus line of primes ..now available for Nikon,Canon and others. No searching required. great lenses 18 thru 100 . Leitax has created a replaceable mount for Leica and C/Y lenses to adapt them to N/C/P .

The one lens I am looking for is the Leica 180/2.8 APO and I would love to adapt the 1.4APO extender to work with it(so I need the extender adapted on both sides). This combination would shine on the D3X and there is no real competition here.

The biggest change will be the refocusing on absolute lens quality (verse character) ..the larger sensors show everything.

 

[fotografz]

IMO, the once and future king may be the 75 Lux w/6 bit code on a M9.

I went through 3 different 75/2 ASPH and wasn't please with any of them. My dealer asked if I wanted to try a late model Geman 75 Lux with 6 bit code, and while reluctant due to having difficulty focusing that lens on a M8, I gave it another try. OMG! Perfect focus, beautiful OOF rendition, and sharp as hell at the focus point ... especially stopped down to f/2.

Others may rediscover it also. It holds its own with my other Leica M lenses ... which are all ASPHs.

 

[glenerrolrd]

Marc

What didn t you like about the 75 summicron? I have both the 75 summicron and the summilux and find them quite different in how they render . Like them both for different reasons.

The character (for lack of a better word) on the 75 summilux is very special. I can see why you would like it for weddings in particular. Has a lot of the Noctilux look only sharper .

The 75 summicron is based on the 50 1.4asph formula and has that in your face punch of sharpness,contrast and color saturation. The biggest difference beyond the rendering is the handling with the 75 summicron having a small form and a short throw ...much better for street work .

The 75lux is IMHO an expert lens...you really have to have your technique down to nail the focus consistently..not unlike the Noctilux. If you use an M regularly they both can produce some magic...but an in frequent user might prefer the 75 cron.

I do like the lenses that you can "dial in the contrast" by stopping down. Thus having the ability to have a lower contrast look wide open and then had some zing by stopping down. The 75 lux is one of those lenses. If Leica doesn t announce a new version the value of the late model 6 bit versions will really go up.

 

[fotografz]

Marc

What didn t you like about the 75 summicron? I have both the 75 summicron and the summilux and find them quite different in how they render . Like them both for different reasons.

The character (for lack of a better word) on the 75 summilux is very special. I can see why you would like it for weddings in particular. Has a lot of the Noctilux look only sharper .

The 75 summicron is based on the 50 1.4asph formula and has that in your face punch of sharpness,contrast and color saturation. The biggest difference beyond the rendering is the handling with the 75 summicron having a small form and a short throw ...much better for street work .

The 75lux is IMHO an expert lens...you really have to have your technique down to nail the focus consistently..not unlike the Noctilux. If you use an M regularly they both can produce some magic...but an in frequent user might prefer the 75 cron.

I do like the lenses that you can "dial in the contrast" by stopping down. Thus having the ability to have a lower contrast look wide open and then had some zing by stopping down. The 75 lux is one of those lenses. If Leica doesn t announce a new version the value of the late model 6 bit versions will really go up.

Roger, two of the 75/2 ASPH I tried wouldn't focus correctly on my M9 at all ... which wasn't the camera since I can focus both a 50/0.95 and 75 Lux on it. The third one was still slightly off focus (three wasn't a charm : -(, so I finally decided since I had the 50/0.95 ASPH, I'd try the 75 Lux ... which focused perfectly (finally, some good luck).

I find the M9 more accurate than I did the M8 ... even using a 1.15X or 1.25X mag. I also like the character of the 75 Lux for anything over 50mm since most work is of people. I guess that's why I prefer the 90/2.8 over the 90/2AA which I sold.

I think it was you that said these fast lenses need not be used right on top of the subject all the time, and are much more accurate at a bit of a distance. That's how I tend to use the Noctilux and 75 Lux ... However, it seems that on the M9 I am getting a higher hit ratio with both then I seemed to before, even up close and personal.

-Marc

 

[gogopix]

Interesting the differences found M8 to M9.

I was actually hoping for a 'discovery' (I do have the 75 LUX that I find a really fine lens) but so far, no 'diamonds in therough?" (well, the 135 TE has always had a great reputation, and yes have that and the elmar and ASPH as well)

No one has mentioned trying a Visoflex. No reason it shouldn't work. That would open some glorious tele lenses from 280 to 560.

Victor

 

[PeterA]

I am still waiting for an M9...which I am looking forward too..however Victor - old pal...using the contraption you refer to above so you can use long lenses on an M camera isnt just making a silk purse out of a sow's ear..no it is uglier than that!
:ROTFL::ROTFL:

I am happy with the thought of my 21mm/28/35/50 and 75 being used the way the were designed to be used on a lovely full frame M! To be frank if I chck out my lens shots over the years 80% of them in film were made with a 50 - I have four of them...the rest are a toss up between 75 and 35..

I have (of course) tried a 90 and even a 135..but for me anyway teh 75 is the limit of usefulness in M..its sweet spot is 21-50 AFIK from a few years street shooting and happy snapping-

For me and my passion ( street) all I need is a 50 and a 28 - oh and an M9 when I can get my hands on one..

 

[jaapv]

The Visoflex works flawlessly. It is just that the resolution of V-mount lenses is not high enough for the M9, with the possible exception of the 400/560 and 800 series.

 

[gogopix]

I am still waiting for an M9...which I am looking forward too..however Victor - old pal...using the contraption you refer to above so you can use long lenses on an M camera isnt just making a silk purse out of a sow's ear..no it is uglier than that!
:ROTFL::ROTFL:

I am happy with the thought of my 21mm/28/35/50 and 75 being used the way the were designed to be used on a lovely full frame M! To be frank if I chck out my lens shots over the years 80% of them in film were made with a 50 - I have four of them...the rest are a toss up between 75 and 35..

I have (of course) tried a 90 and even a 135..but for me anyway teh 75 is the limit of usefulness in M..its sweet spot is 21-50 AFIK from a few years street shooting and happy snapping-

For me and my passion ( street) all I need is a 50 and a 28 - oh and an M9 when I can get my hands on one..

Marc Jacobs has a $5200 'sows ear' bag that is all the rage in Central Europe:ROTFL:

Actually, the Visoflex on an M9 would be a 14MP DMR, and smaller If you haven't tried one, don't jump to conclusions - they are pretty simple, AND have mirror lockup :thumbs:

 

[jaapv]

Where did you leave the other 4 Mp, Victor?

 

[gogopix]

Where did you leave the other 4 Mp, Victor?

Yes, on the cutting room floor
NO, There they are!!!!

OK 18MP, better yet

NOW, to the issue of Visoflex quality; I just HAPPEN to have a shot made with the old VF 280mm that I used with a VF to Hasseyblad adapter then Hassey to Contax 645 so This is a shot with a P45 non-plus, but still 39MP, I believe (been a while)

Note that the crop (100%) is near the edge

 

[jaapv]

That is a whole lot better than mine performs - but that is a first version, maybe there is a difference. The 200 I had was again way behind the 280..

 

[glenerrolrd]

Roger, two of the 75/2 ASPH I tried wouldn't focus correctly on my M9 at all ... which wasn't the camera since I can focus both a 50/0.95 and 75 Lux on it. The third one was still slightly off focus (three wasn't a charm : -(, so I finally decided since I had the 50/0.95 ASPH, I'd try the 75 Lux ... which focused perfectly (finally, some good luck).

I find the M9 more accurate than I did the M8 ... even using a 1.15X or 1.25X mag. I also like the character of the 75 Lux for anything over 50mm since most work is of people. I guess that's why I prefer the 90/2.8 over the 90/2AA which I sold.

I think it was you that said these fast lenses need not be used right on top of the subject all the time, and are much more accurate at a bit of a distance. That's how I tend to use the Noctilux and 75 Lux ... However, it seems that on the M9 I am getting a higher hit ratio with both then I seemed to before, even up close and personal.

-Marc

I have found a lot of the same issues in calibration exercises. Leica did not appear ready for the issues caused by the transition from film to digital . That extra little bit of latitude provided by the thickness of the film allowed for calibration specifications on the lenses that were too loose. In addition even minute errors in the sensor alignment were visible with the fast lenses. The original M8 s back focused with many of the summiluxes. They corrected this with the M8.2 and I noticed immediately that the focus point had moved forward. The M9 seems to be the best and if you viewed the video of the factory tour (on luminous landscape I believe). You will see the focus alignment rulers at each of the necessary distances. The cameras now look good .

The lenses are of course all over the place because the 'in range tolerances" were established for film and not adjusted for digital. So a lens can test in tolerance and if its slightly "back" and the camera is slightly "back" ..you can not get there from here....both have to be adjusted. So a body that works great with other lenses can be "in tolerance" and yet not work with a specific lens. To make it further confusing(if thats possible)....the calibration has to be tested for at least three distances....1m,7m and infinity. It is quite possible to be acceptable at 1m and off a t 7m and infinity. This is rare but happens (especially with the 135apo) ....DAG told me this wasn t possible but later agreed that it is.

The only way to deal with this is to follow what DAG does to calibrate a system. You start with a reference body and lens(sorry but that 90 summicron was the one...Leica has an old brass mount 90mm labeled REFERENCE LENS) ....I used my 75 summilux which Solms rebuilt to a narrow tolerance. Then with your reference body DAG can adjust any lens to proper calibration. Fortunately the M9 s appear spot on as my Noctilux works well but I could test forever ...so now I use the combination and only test if I seem to be missing.

I assume that every other lens will go to DAG for calibration or if new get returned to Leica.

Here is your test for the summilux. Hang a newspaper on the wall. At minimum focusing distance ...isolate the first letter in a sentence in the middle of a page. Thats my definition of "spot on" and with a 75 lux you get no more than 2-3 letters sharp. Then in normal usage you have the latitude to miss a little and still get a sharp image. :deadhorse:

 

[mikel]

IMO, the once and future king may be the 75 Lux w/6 bit code on a M9.

I went through 3 different 75/2 ASPH and wasn't please with any of them. My dealer asked if I wanted to try a late model Geman 75 Lux with 6 bit code, and while reluctant due to having difficulty focusing that lens on a M8, I gave it another try. OMG! Perfect focus, beautiful OOF rendition, and sharp as hell at the focus point ... especially stopped down to f/2.

Others may rediscover it also. It holds its own with my other Leica M lenses ... which are all ASPHs.

I'm with you Marc, it's the only lens I regretted selling. Sharp, smooth, and can produce images that look like a 50mm and 90mm depending on subject distance. Luckily I found another late model a couple months ago.

 

[mikel]

Another possible gem for Leica M digital is the somewhat maligned 35mm pre-asph summilux. I saw some of Jim Collum's images and liked contrast and color on M8 images. I tried mine on an M8 recently and was surprised by how much better the resolution seemed at f1.4 then what I get on slow film. Plenty sharp at f2.8, and sometimes the funk at f1.4-f1.7 can compliment an image nicely.

 

[ampguy]

This lens is already a hot one, especially the German one. Not sure why one would want it coded, especially for the M9??

IMO, the once and future king may be the 75 Lux w/6 bit code on a M9.

I went through 3 different 75/2 ASPH and wasn't please with any of them. My dealer asked if I wanted to try a late model Geman 75 Lux with 6 bit code, and while reluctant due to having difficulty focusing that lens on a M8, I gave it another try. OMG! Perfect focus, beautiful OOF rendition, and sharp as hell at the focus point ... especially stopped down to f/2.

Others may rediscover it also. It holds its own with my other Leica M lenses ... which are all ASPHs.

 

[ampguy]

Hi Mike,,

Like the 75/1.4, the 35 pre-asph is also in high demand (as are the 50/1.4 pre-asphs), with high prices for clean examples already up there. I like the last version (without infinity lock), and would love a Titanium version, but any clean example is probably a great keeper lens.

Possibly helping to fuel this demand is that disappointed 35 ASPH users are realizing there is more distortion, more focus shift, and no glow of the old Mandler design.

Another possible gem for Leica M digital is the somewhat maligned 35mm pre-asph summilux. I saw some of Jim Collum's images and liked contrast and color on M8 images. I tried mine on an M8 recently and was surprised by how much better the resolution seemed at f1.4 then what I get on slow film. Plenty sharp at f2.8, and sometimes the funk at f1.4-f1.7 can compliment an image nicely.

 

[fotografz]

This lens is already a hot one, especially the German one. Not sure why one would want it coded, especially for the M9??

So the Exif information shows up when processing. I frequently use selective Exif info to select and bunch all shots done with one lens, then batch certain processing techniques.