The GetDPI Photography Forum

Great to see you here. Join our insightful photographic forum today and start tapping into a huge wealth of photographic knowledge. Completing our simple registration process will allow you to gain access to exclusive content, add your own topics and posts, share your work and connect with other members through your own private inbox! And don’t forget to say hi!

how often you shoot yourNoctilux or your 35/1.4 wide open???

Peter Klein

New member
Tom: The first thing to ask yourself is, are you a 50mm person or a 35mm person? In other words, which is "normal" for you on a film camera (or a full-frame digital camera like the M9)?

For me, 50 is normal on film, and 35 is "normal" on my M8. I generally want my fastest lens to be of my "normal" focal length.

The next question is whether you are an "available darkness" hound, or just dabble in it occasionally. This will affect whether you choose a more or less expensive fast lens. How much is that extra stop worth to you?

Finally, do you want to use a fast lens all the time for its narrow depth of field and special character, or would you use it only when the lights are low?

The "older" 35/1.4 ASPH does have significant focus shift. So I tend to use it at f/1.4, f/2 and f/8, skipping the stops in between. You would probably find the older Noctilux has a similar pattern.

On an M9, if you're a "50mm" kind of person, the new 50/1.4 ASPH is probably the perfect lens. There is very little you can't do with a good f/1.4. But if you MUST have f/1, obviously only the Noct will do.

If you have an M8, then things are more complicated. The new 'Lux ASPH has minimized the focus shift issue. The Voigtlander 35/1.2 Nokton also has (for all practical purposes) no focus shift. It's a lovely lens, sharp enough but not scary sharp like the 'Lux ASPH, and with a fingerprint somewhere between classic smoothness and nice bokeh vs. modern clinical sharpness. It is, however, big and heavy, less contrasty than the Lux, and prone to color fringing around transition zones between very bright and dark areas (like foliage against a bright sky).

If you have an M8 or are a "35mm" person full-frame, then the new 'Lux ASPH with the floating element is probably your best bet. Another possibility is more than one lens--your 35 Summarit for most photography, and the VC 35/1.2 for available darkness. That's what I do--I use a classic 35 Summicron
v. IV outdoors, and either the old 35/1.4 ASPH or the Voigtlander 35/1.2 indoors.

I try to steer clear of "Noctilust." With film, I've used a 50mm Summicron outdoors, and a Voigtlander 50/1.5 Nokton indoors. If I had the M9 and another $5K to spare, I'd probably go for the 50/1.4 ASPH, and sell a bunch of other 50s I have. If you want to experiment with "character" lenses, there are cheaper ways to do it than a Noctilux. I'm rather partial to my $30 Russian Jupiter-8, which makes a nice Sonnar. Then there's the Summitar...

As my wife says: "There is no perfect lens. Just buy what you like." (And then I worry about price...) :)

--Peter
 

ampguy

Member
When I had my Noctilux, I shot it wide open 90% of the time. Now I have pre-asph summiluxes, and am shooting them (and other lenses) wide open only, for one year.
 

ashwinrao1

Active member
IT's a mix, based on what the photo calls for. I purchased the Noct f0.95 and summilux 35 asph (v1) to shoot wide open if and when needed. Both have magic in 'em wide open and work well when stopped down...
 

Godfrey

Well-known member
I have neither of those lenses, I have the Summilux-D 25mm f/1.4 ASPH which I use on E-1, L1 and G1 bodies.

I checked metadata in my Lightroom catalog. Of the total number of photos made with this lens, more than two-thirds were made with the lens set between f/1.4 and f/2.5, and half between f/1.4 and f/2.
 

Paratom

Well-known member
Kurtz-how do you feel to carry such an expensive lens? Are you sometimes scared of rubbery or damage or do you just dont htink about it? Anyways -for damage I have been insured since I dont see sence in expensive gear if I dont bring it along.

Tom,

On the M8, my favorite lens was the 35lux because I find that I really like the 50mm focal length on a full frame camera. So I made the radical choice to sell most of my other lenses when I started using the M9 and purchased the Noctilux ASPH. I use it as my do everything lens. With an ND filter in my pocket I've found that it is the lens that I use 90% of the time followed by my 75lux. I also still have a 21lux and 35lux, but they have been collecting dust.

The new Noct is very sharp wide open and is easier to focus on the M9 than I would have imagined.

Kurt
 

Paratom

Well-known member
I wish I knew if I am a 50mm or a 35mm guy ;)

On the M9 I use 50mm and 24mm most of the times today.

With the x1 I am happy to use the 35mm FOV.

I definetly do enjoy shallow DOF - as long as it fits the subject (I dont like portraits with inly one eye in focus though)
So my most images are in the f1.4-f4.0 range.

Does anybody have some samples which show the same image taken at f0.95 and f1.4 with the Noctilux?
Or f1.4 and f2.5 with a new 35 asph Lux?

Thank you guys for all the comments and interesting answers.
For me its still about finding out which part is just lens lust and which part leads to things we can see?
 

KurtKamka

Subscriber Member
Kurtz-how do you feel to carry such an expensive lens? Are you sometimes scared of rubbery or damage or do you just dont htink about it? Anyways -for damage I have been insured since I dont see sence in expensive gear if I dont bring it along.
Tom, I've gotten over thinking about it. Mostly, because every time I look at the images I get with the lens I realize just how much of an engineering marvel the lens is to use/own. Also, since it frequently ends up being the only lens I bring with me as I leave the house, it ends up representing around the same amount of money as carrying around three or four other Leica lenses at one time.

Kurt
 

cam

Active member
I agree. IMO some Noctilux images with its shallow DOF have a kind of MF LOOK (regarding transition sharp-unsharp)
and that's with the older f/1! you don't need to buy the f/0.95 to get the look...

actually, i think the newer Nocti is too similar to the 50 Lux Asph you already have. if you went for one of these, i'd recommend going for the dreamier f/1.
 

Paratom

Well-known member
and that's with the older f/1! you don't need to buy the f/0.95 to get the look...

actually, i think the newer Nocti is too similar to the 50 Lux Asph you already have. if you went for one of these, i'd recommend going for the dreamier f/1.
I do like the look of the f1.0 version but I had owned one some time agon and just felt I could not get the focus shift thing under control. But more and more I feel lust for one of the ultra fast 35 or 50.

Those last days I shoot nearly all my lenses wide open quite often...
 

cam

Active member
I do like the look of the f1.0 version but I had owned one some time agon and just felt I could not get the focus shift thing under control. But more and more I feel lust for one of the ultra fast 35 or 50.

Those last days I shoot nearly all my lenses wide open quite often...
unless your camera and/or lens is way off, i find the whole focus shift issue a load of bollocks... you can pretty much learn any lens, if you have the desire.

maybe when you had it before you weren't ready to take it on?

maybe you are now?

lust is good :D
 

pgmj

Member
If cost is an issue you could consider the Voigtländer Nokton 50/1.1. Or it could be an intermediary step towards a Nocti... Though it is quite a bit lighter than the 0.95 and of course somewhat "slower". Like the Nocti, it has the 1m close focus limit that I find disappointing.
 
W

wilsonlaidlaw

Guest
I would say the 35 ASPH Lux is my equal most used lens on M8 and 9 along with the MATE. A large proportion of the shots I take with it would be full open. For some reason that nobody has ever really been able to get to the bottom of, many of the chrome/brass body 35 Luxes seem to suffer less aperture shift than a lot of the black anodised alloy lenses but they are appreciably heavier. A couple of years ago I had a discussion at Solms on the variability of the 35 Lux and they said that this lens was the most difficult to adjust perfectly of all the lenses they built and there would inevitably be some small variation from lens to lens. We all know that they were understating the issue and there is a big variation from lens to lens. I suspect the new design was to a large extent, to eliminate this issue and I would guess is a far more reliable buy. The old one is a bit of a lottery. I tried about 10 before I ended up with one that I liked.

Wilson
 

Chuck Jones

Subscriber Member
Very interesting following this thread. I've finally bit the bullet myself. Back on the slippery slope again :D:deadhorse:

I just got my M9, finally making the decision to dump MF completely since I just have no work for it much anymore. The art market is GONE, and hard to say when, or if, it will ever come back. I've shot M cameras for years. You who know me will no doubt attest to the fact that to me, an M and the night just go together naturally. I've owned at one time or another practically every M lens made, save for the new ones the last three years. I shoot my M's wide for the most part, but have up to now always had a DSLR & MF around as well.

So I am completing a large round of trades, sales, and purchases reconfiguring my gear completely to better represent my working needs both professionally and personally. For stills, I bought a new M9. My M8 will be listed for sale shortly, as I sadly can not afford to keep it and still get everything I want. I've owned two of these M8's, and enjoyed both very much even with the limitations. After only a few test shots, I am very pleased with my new M9.

I've shot the old 21mm f/3.4 SA, 24 2.8 ASPH, 28 'Cron the most and love each and every one of them for different reasons and situations. I've also got a beauty of an older 35 'Cron that comes next. I've owned all the 'Lux variants and frankly feel the equivalent Cron is not only a lighter, smaller, less expensive lens, the optical quality of them is far superior to the 'Lux in every respect save for the slight speed difference. I guess that slight advantage is worth the overall costs (and not just in cash) to some. I'm just not one of them. To me, quality of the glass and look is first. What it costs to get it is actually secondary since I derive income from them.

I decided I would try the latest 21 'Lux, .95 Noct, and 75 'Cron to add to those above since this kit is now my main system. My Noct is still on order, but I now have the other two. I'll do another post with my observations on the Noct after I receive it and hold all my comments from past experience with the older version until I've used the new one a bit once it shows up. I will share with all of you that I am extremely surprised and very pleased indeed with both of the other two. The 21 'Lux is spectacular and likely will become my main shooting lens. With the Noct, those two are my new "Night" kit. I like the 21 so much I will probably also buy a set of ND filters for it to shoot it wide open in bright sun. Also a likely purchase for the Noct as well.

Guys, I want to share something pretty important about shooting with a 'Lux. There is simply no substitute for experience using them. Thousands of frames later, you will be very glad you invested that kind of time because each and every one of them is a unique look and a total delight when you nail the focus. I strongly encourage you to only buy ONE 'Lux, and at least one ND filter for daytime. You do not need anything else if you have the ND, and frankly USING your 'Lux most of the time builds that familiarity with it pretty quickly using it in light you can actually see to focus in. It will dramatically increase your "keeper" rate in your night work as well, since experience does translate if it is the same lens.

What this does is "train your brain" to recognize the distance you see in the viewfinder and your other eye when the daylight image is in focus. Use it this way lots wide open, and when you move indoors even at night without enough light to see the patch your brain, your eyes, and your hands will just naturally move to the right focus point. I know this may sound like bull**** to some of you, but it does work and works very well. There is a solid psychological reason behind this, but I'm not going into that now.

From my own experience, I can say that to really master any lens takes several thousand images shot in sequence without shooting anything else. I shot nothing but my 21 SA for over 6 months and I was shooting daily. That lens is a real pain in the ***, since it is completely manual without a working meter so you also must learn to read the light and set aperture and shutter both manually as well as dealing with focus. The 21 'Lux is much easier, but do not under estimate the work involved mastering any low light lens, whatever the focal length. The wider the lens, the less apparent your focus issues will appear so my advice from doing this low light stuff for years is to pick the WIDEST focal length you are comfortable with. You can always crop but you can't fix blown focus that is an obvious mistake.

Now let's put to rest a couple other old saws about low light shooting. With full credit to those who shared their own bag of tricks with me, David Alan Harvey, Arthur Meyerson, and Raul Touzon for the most part who all make their living shooting low light hand held as well.

Learn what hyper focal distance is, both in theory as well as in practice with your particular lens choice. It is a night shooter's best friend after his 'Lux. Know what your depth of field is in inches at several different distances. You'd be surprised at how that changes with even a couple of steps backwards or changing your position to the other side of the table. You will also be interested in comparing this DOF against another choice in focal length. If the focal you want to use doesn't give you sufficient DOF for the working distance your usually shooting, you are creating yourself an impossible-to-succeed dilemma. Learn to consider this as well and before very long you will only use the viewfinder for composition, the rest you set on autopilot somehow that seldom misses.

Light is light, no matter how you get it or how you choose to use it. A penlight laying on a table focused through an empty beer bottle is an amazing light source in a pinch good for a couple extra stops if you peel off the label..... and looks very pretty, nice warm and natural, like there was no light added.
 

Paratom

Well-known member
Chuck,
very interesting read. What I dont understand: are you saying you prefer the ..crons because they are as good and smaller and then you say you order the Noctilux and 21/1.4
So is your general conclusion that the crons are the way to go ro the faster lenses?
 

geesbert

New member
Hi Thomas

the 35 lux you sold to me is now gone and I got the new 35 lux ever since it came out and it hardly leaves my camera. I think it is much better than the old version, don't see any focus shift, handling is nicer and the hood design is way better.
I nearly only shoot it at f1.4 and only close it if I top 1/4000.

best lens I ever had, any make.
 

Paratom

Well-known member
Hi Thomas

the 35 lux you sold to me is now gone and I got the new 35 lux ever since it came out and it hardly leaves my camera. I think it is much better than the old version, don't see any focus shift, handling is nicer and the hood design is way better.
I nearly only shoot it at f1.4 and only close it if I top 1/4000.

best lens I ever had, any make.
You guys dont make it easy for me to resist!
 
Top