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Thread: S Is For Show Us Your S2 Shots

  1. #201
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    Re: S Is For Show Us Your S2 Shots

    Hi Jono,

    Below is a link to a 2008 article from Kodak announcing Kodak's foray into making a new type CMOS sensor based on what appears (according to them) a new design that has some (many) of the advantages of CCD. Kodak actually made their first small CMOS sensors way back in 2001. The article is quite simple and understandable for us "lugheads" (which at this point, I'm only including myself in this group )

    Within that article is a link to preliminary 2008 Kodak article entitiled Image Sensors 101: CMOS vs CCD . Although it relates to smaller sensors, it appears Kodak feels the gap between CMOS and CCD is closing. This article is very basic and doesn't contain much info.

    Assuming this and more current technology based on similar ideas becomes available, maybe we'll see the higher ISO performing CMOS chips incorporated into cameras like the S2 and other DMF bodies sometime in the future.

    Still this doesn't answer the other question of CMOS without AA filters. I'm in the dark about that one.

    OK, here is the link to the main article (newer type of CMOS):

    http://webcache.googleusercontent.co...&ct=clnk&gl=us

    Now here is the link to "Image Sensors 101: CMOS vs CCD":

    http://pluggedin.kodak.com/post/?id=664294

    Dave (D&A)

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    Re: S Is For Show Us Your S2 Shots

    I am following this thread and find it very interesting.
    No because I think about the S2 but because I think about the Pentax 645.(sorry but for what I would intend to do those are comparable cameras for me)

    Now things which come to my mind are:

    1) (if) a M9 and lenses are calibrated fine and if 16MP are enough a M9-kit can probably do (nearly?) the same IQ as MF camera (even though I find the M9 color tricky sometimes) at a much much much lower weight/size/bulk tham MF.

    2) would a DSLR (D3x, D4?) where I would let somebody take the AA filter out maybe be nearly the same IQ?? Advantage much more flexible system with really usable and fast AF

  3. #203
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    Re: S Is For Show Us Your S2 Shots

    Quote Originally Posted by t_streng View Post
    I am following this thread and find it very interesting.
    No because I think about the S2 but because I think about the Pentax 645.(sorry but for what I would intend to do those are comparable cameras for me)

    Now things which come to my mind are:

    1) (if) a M9 and lenses are calibrated fine and if 16MP are enough a M9-kit can probably do (nearly?) the same IQ as MF camera (even though I find the M9 color tricky sometimes) at a much much much lower weight/size/bulk tham MF.

    2) would a DSLR (D3x, D4?) where I would let somebody take the AA filter out maybe be nearly the same IQ?? Advantage much more flexible system with really usable and fast AF
    IMO, using the criteria of IQ, nope, and nope.

    My M9 is great no doubt ... but it ain't that great.

    Same for the D3X I once owned (with the AA filter ... which was there for a reason I suspect).

    Unfortunately is has to be experienced, since no amount of words or sub one meg web images can convey the difference MFD makes. So at least on forums, reason and logic has to come into play at some point ... it's just physics. 35mm frame restriction, verses sensors up to almost twice as large. Just do the math.

    Once you work with a MFD kit for a while it becomes obvious ... and your visual standards and expectations change regarding IQ. However, it does become something of a curse ... since as far as IQ (not content, handling, etc) is concerned, raising the bar leads to dissatisfaction with smaller formats ... and you can find yourself wishing you had shot certain images with the MFD rig.

    Of interest, my album printer has remarked more than once on the quality of certain images for my premium album which is 20" X 20" spreads when opened. Every time he was referencing a MFD image amongst my M9 and Sony A900 shots.

    On the other hand, IQ plays second fiddle to content, speed and all that for certain styles of shooting ... (thus "Horses For Courses).

    One is not the other. However, the IQ has improved on the 35mm DSLRs, as has the handling and speed of the MFD systems. Regardless, MFD is still the IQ champion and probably always will be. So, does one give up some speed and handling for improved IQ or not?

    Since the handling aspects of current MFD rigs have reached a relatively excellent level for most shooting scenarios, my choice is to use the MFD unless the need for other over-riding attributes are glaringly obvious.

    For example, I have no idea how it was achieved nor do I care, but the S2 AF is like night and day compared to my first test done a year ago.

    Just my 2 worth.

    -Marc

  4. #204
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    Re: S Is For Show Us Your S2 Shots

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post

    Same for the D3X I once owned (with the AA filter ... which was there for a reason I suspect).

    Once you work with a MFD kit for a while it becomes obvious ... and your visual standards and expectations change regarding IQ. However, it does become something of a curse ... since as far as IQ (not content, handling, etc) is concerned, raising the bar leads to dissatisfaction with smaller formats ... and you can find yourself wishing you had shot certain images with the MFD rig.

    -Marc
    Hi Marc,

    Regarding two of your statements, quoted above...

    As you know, there are a couple of "after market companies" offering to remove the AA filter from many DSLR's and replacing them with a clear cover glass. There is certainly improved image quality (ie: increased apparent resolution) but it also appears that aliasing issues are more prevelent than say one of the numerious CCD cameras with weak or no filter. Technically, why that is, I don't know. I've had an opportunity to work with a higher end "higher resolution" DSLR that had this mod done, and even there it was no match for DMF...so your other points regarding the comparisons of the two systems (full frame 24x36mm DSLRs vs. DMF) in their current state, "image wise", is well noted.

    All I have to say in regards to your second statement quoted above is "ain't that the truth! I think we all look back on some of our most successful images and lament the fact it was taken on a much earlier generation of digital camera or even a camera with a smaller format. The bar many times is often raised by our upgrading camera bodies & systems and although the image content itself is what is and foremost most important, its often no doubt helped by these upgrades and improvements.

    It's a cycle that really never ends and can be apllied to most every consumer good, especially the ones that are intertwined with both our passions and those that are work related (or a combination of the two). At what point its levels out and becomes completely useable and acceptable in its present form, may be quite different for the needs or desires of another. Then there are often the times of "trade-offs" one is confronted with, when contemplating camera body upgrades or complete system changes, having to sacrifice one or a number of attributes in order to gain other advantages. A difficult decision at times.

    Dave (D&A)
    Last edited by D&A; 20th December 2010 at 06:55.

  5. #205
    Senior Member ceh's Avatar
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    Re: S Is For Show Us Your S2 Shots

    Gentlemen,
    please proceed to the consideration
    - I add a picture ..

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    Re: S Is For Show Us Your S2 Shots

    Quote Originally Posted by ceh View Post
    Gentlemen,
    please proceed to the consideration
    - I add a picture ..
    Beautiful, subtle tones in this shot... I like it a lot.

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    Re: S Is For Show Us Your S2 Shots

    Quote Originally Posted by David K View Post
    Beautiful, subtle tones in this shot... I like it a lot.
    I do too.

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    Re: S Is For Show Us Your S2 Shots

    Quote Originally Posted by David K View Post
    Just finished re-reading the Digilloyd review of this system and it seems like Lloyd had some consistent back focusing issues. Wondering if any one who's currently using the system has experienced this problem...
    David, I have not experienced any sort of "consistent" back focus. Of course I have some photos that show back focus. However, I attribute that to my own body sway or sway/movement of the person being photographed because I plenty of photos (often during the same shoot) which are focused exactly where I intended. I have not detected back focus when the camera is mounted on a tripod and shooting static subjects. In fact, I find the autofocus to be very accurate.

  9. #209
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    Re: S Is For Show Us Your S2 Shots

    Hi CEH,

    Lovely tonality in your image and it has a feel and look of quiet desolation, yet stark beauty. Hope to see more of your posted images. Thanks!

    Dave (D&A)

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    Re: S Is For Show Us Your S2 Shots

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Gowin View Post
    David, I have not experienced any sort of "consistent" back focus. Of course I have some photos that show back focus. However, I attribute that to my own body sway or sway/movement of the person being photographed because I plenty of photos (often during the same shoot) which are focused exactly where I intended. I have not detected back focus when the camera is mounted on a tripod and shooting static subjects. In fact, I find the autofocus to be very accurate.
    Mark, thanks for the response and reassurance. Marc has also mentioned that the AF has improved substantially since his early trial. I'll do some testing for this when I get my kit on Wednesday.

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    Re: S Is For Show Us Your S2 Shots

    Quote Originally Posted by ceh View Post
    Gentlemen,
    please proceed to the consideration
    - I add a picture ..
    Very nice! I like the tones in this picture very much.
    Arif

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    Re: S Is For Show Us Your S2 Shots

    In the spirit of this thread, more pictures please and those taken with the FE lenses when possible. The IQ is the bottom line. Thank you, Kurt, for initiating this thread and to the rest of the players for your contributions.

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    Re: S Is For Show Us Your S2 Shots


  14. #214
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    Re: S Is For Show Us Your S2 Shots

    Gorgeous. Is that with the 35?

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    Re: S Is For Show Us Your S2 Shots


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    Re: S Is For Show Us Your S2 Shots


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    Re: S Is For Show Us Your S2 Shots

    Quote Originally Posted by Lloyd View Post
    Gorgeous. Is that with the 35?
    Thanks.. yes that is 35...

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    Re: S Is For Show Us Your S2 Shots

    I like the high key photo of your daughter CEH.

    Xpixel, your photo makes me even more anxious for my 35mm to arrive.

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    Re: S Is For Show Us Your S2 Shots

    Here are a few from today ...
















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    Re: S Is For Show Us Your S2 Shots

    Continuing my Maiko series with a little B&W conversion using Silver Efex Pro.

    Thank you for looking,
    Arif
    http://blog.arifiqball.com
    www.arifiqball.com

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    Re: S Is For Show Us Your S2 Shots

    Quote Originally Posted by Arif View Post
    Continuing my Maiko series with a little B&W conversion using Silver Efex Pro.

    Thank you for looking,
    Arif
    http://blog.arifiqball.com
    www.arifiqball.com
    Hi Arif
    that's lovely - very Victorian!

    Just this guy you know

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    Re: S Is For Show Us Your S2 Shots

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Gowin View Post
    I like the high key photo of your daughter CEH.
    Thank you for your kind words Mark,
    S2 is the best universal ..

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    Re: S Is For Show Us Your S2 Shots

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Hi Arif
    that's lovely - very Victorian!
    +1 from me on this one too Arif. EXCELLENT image! I love that old Victorian look and haven't really seen much of it myself with that subject matter.

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    Re: S Is For Show Us Your S2 Shots

    ..assistant when installing firmware
    ..............

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    Re: S Is For Show Us Your S2 Shots

    Here is one of my dog Stella taken Christmas day. Our first sizable snowfall on Christmas day in several years. It was great.



    Bald River Falls taken during snowfall day after Christmas. Softness of the photo is caused by the snowfall.


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    Re: S Is For Show Us Your S2 Shots

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Gowin View Post

    Bald River Falls taken during snowfall day after Christmas. Softness of the photo is caused by the snowfall.
    very nice fine pictures
    .................................................. ..

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    Re: S Is For Show Us Your S2 Shots

    Thank you Jono and Chuck for your kind comments. Here is one of the Temple of the Golden Pavilion (Kinkakuji).
    Best regards,
    Arif

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    Re: S Is For Show Us Your S2 Shots

    CEH, your food photo is surprisingly good considering the conditions. I don't know what food was being served, but it looks tasty.

    Arif, the last temple photo is stunning (great light) and your Maiko photos are always impressive.

    Kurt, I am loving the street photos. You are adding to my desire for a long lens.

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    Re: S Is For Show Us Your S2 Shots

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Gowin View Post
    CEH, your food photo is surprisingly good considering the conditions. I don't know what food was being served, but it looks tasty.

    Arif, the last temple photo is stunning (great light) and your Maiko photos are always impressive.

    Kurt, I am loving the street photos. You are adding to my desire for a long lens.
    Hey Mark

    You might want to try to find a Hassy V 250 SA. Wonderful lens I am told though I believe Kurt could shed light on this. You can buy a Hassy to S2 adapter from David to get things together. I have one which I use with the Hassy FE 110 2.0 and love the combination

    happy new year

    Woody

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    Re: S Is For Show Us Your S2 Shots

    Quote Originally Posted by woodyspedden View Post
    Hey Mark

    You might want to try to find a Hassy V 250 SA.

    happy new year

    Woody
    On my wish list too... but need to take a bit of a breather before picking one up. Should never have sold mine

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    Re: S Is For Show Us Your S2 Shots

    If you haven't seen this, you might want to give it a look. Agree or disagree, it's an interesting read, maybe especially for the denizens of this thread.

    http://www.luminous-landscape.com/es..._cameras.shtml

  32. #232
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    Re: S Is For Show Us Your S2 Shots

    Hi Lloyd,

    There is a lengthy thread posted here on Getdpi regarding this article and debating the merrits of the authors point of view. Lets just say it was a civil and "lively" discussion, as you can imagine. Just remember "duck" if you see a flying dinner plate heading your direction

    Dave (D&A)

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    Re: S Is For Show Us Your S2 Shots

    Hi Dave. Thanks for enlightening me, I obviously hadn't seen that thread. Like in most things, looks like I'm behind the curve again.

  34. #234
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    Re: S Is For Show Us Your S2 Shots

    Quote Originally Posted by Lloyd View Post
    Like in most things, looks like I'm behind the curve again.
    You and me both Lloyd, I'm right behind you!...LOL!

    Dave (D&A)

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    Re: S Is For Show Us Your S2 Shots

    Today's picture - hand held

  36. #236
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    Re: S Is For Show Us Your S2 Shots

    .................................

  37. #237
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    Re: S Is For Show Us Your S2 Shots

    ..................................

  38. #238
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    Re: S Is For Show Us Your S2 Shots

    ..................................

  39. #239
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    Re: S Is For Show Us Your S2 Shots

    Quote Originally Posted by D&A View Post
    Hi Jono,

    Below is a link to a 2008 article from Kodak announcing Kodak's foray into making a new type CMOS sensor based on what appears (according to them) a new design that has some (many) of the advantages of CCD. Kodak actually made their first small CMOS sensors way back in 2001. The article is quite simple and understandable for us "lugheads" (which at this point, I'm only including myself in this group )

    Within that article is a link to preliminary 2008 Kodak article entitiled Image Sensors 101: CMOS vs CCD . Although it relates to smaller sensors, it appears Kodak feels the gap between CMOS and CCD is closing. This article is very basic and doesn't contain much info.

    Assuming this and more current technology based on similar ideas becomes available, maybe we'll see the higher ISO performing CMOS chips incorporated into cameras like the S2 and other DMF bodies sometime in the future.

    Still this doesn't answer the other question of CMOS without AA filters. I'm in the dark about that one.

    OK, here is the link to the main article (newer type of CMOS):

    http://webcache.googleusercontent.co...&ct=clnk&gl=us

    Now here is the link to "Image Sensors 101: CMOS vs CCD":

    http://pluggedin.kodak.com/post/?id=664294

    Dave (D&A)
    This is great reading from Jaokim, who works in the industry:

    http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/893332/8#8504636

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    Re: S Is For Show Us Your S2 Shots

    Quote Originally Posted by ceh View Post
    ..assistant when installing firmware
    ..............
    I can imagine you're at times in need of having a guardian angel around when installing firmware ...

    Kind regards.
    Bart ...

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    Re: S Is For Show Us Your S2 Shots


    ....................................

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    Re: S Is For Show Us Your S2 Shots

    Lots of nice winter shots ... ceh. Here are a few of mine ...






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    Re: S Is For Show Us Your S2 Shots

    Love the photographs and the commentary in this thread.

    I remember in the '60's riding around in a VW bug, dreaming of a Karmann Ghia, which would be closer to a Porshe . . . . .

    . . . . . last spring picked up a GF1, which got me interested in Rangefinders, so I picked up a used M8.2 . . . . . who knows in a few years when you folks are selling off these S2's at extremely affordable prices a used S2 just may be in the works.

    Please keep on posting the photographs, many are stunning and all that I have viewed are very pleasing to the eye!

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    Re: S Is For Show Us Your S2 Shots

    Quote Originally Posted by woodyspedden View Post
    Hey Mark

    You might want to try to find a Hassy V 250 SA. Wonderful lens I am told though I believe Kurt could shed light on this. You can buy a Hassy to S2 adapter from David to get things together. I have one which I use with the Hassy FE 110 2.0 and love the combination

    happy new year

    Woody
    Thanks for the heads up Woody. I have been on the lookout (ebay watchlist) for various alternate lenses over the last month or so and haven't hit on the right deal just yet. I will look a little harder at the Hassy V 250 SA.

    Mark

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    Re: S Is For Show Us Your S2 Shots

    Mark,
    Save up your pennies . . . those 250 SAs are quite the collectable and go for $3600 and up. You may get a deal on one that has a bad shutter as you won't need it on the S2.

    Wait a minute, what am I thinking, a $3600 lens on a Leica is a bargain!
    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Gowin View Post
    Thanks for the heads up Woody. I have been on the lookout (ebay watchlist) for various alternate lenses over the last month or so and haven't hit on the right deal just yet. I will look a little harder at the Hassy V 250 SA.

    Mark
    Al Tanabe

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    Re: S Is For Show Us Your S2 Shots

    Quote Originally Posted by atanabe View Post
    Mark,
    Save up your pennies . . . those 250 SAs are quite the collectable and go for $3600 and up. You may get a deal on one that has a bad shutter as you won't need it on the S2.

    Wait a minute, what am I thinking, a $3600 lens on a Leica is a bargain!
    HaHa, Al. That's a good one and sadly very true. I had intended to make my next lens a longish focal length, but at the last minute I ended up putting my money on the Leica S 35mm. That is why I am looking for a bargain in a long lens.

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    Re: S Is For Show Us Your S2 Shots

    Sorry Mark... the words bargain and Leica don't seem to come together too often.

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    Re: S Is For Show Us Your S2 Shots

    So true David. I wasn't dreaming of getting a bargain on a Leica lens. I'm thinking more along the lines of an S adapter and Hassy, Pentax, or Mamiya lens when I think bargain.

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    Re: S Is For Show Us Your S2 Shots

    Mark,
    There are a lot of great Hasselblad lenses that can be had for a bargain. The 180 CF is one of them and I have seen great copies for around $1000, the 100 CF is another great lens and is under $1000. You can also get a 120 macro for about $600. The problem is getting used to manual focus again and if needed, stopping the aperture down before you shoot. You can get a brace of lenses for the cost of the Leica 180 and have fun.

    So lets see, a lens hood for the 70 is ~ $250?
    Al Tanabe

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    Re: S Is For Show Us Your S2 Shots

    Quote Originally Posted by ceh View Post
    ..assistant when installing firmware
    ..............
    Which Eizo monitor are you using, if I may ask? And most importantly, do you like it?

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