M8 in Iraq

[Maggie O]

That's a stupid reason, then.

A Gulfstream V costs way more and is a shitty combat jet AND it doesn't take photos. Let's bitch about it for a while.

 

[TRSmith]

I was being a wise ass. I'm not sure there is any one real reason why Leica generates so much hyperbole (which seems to go both pro and con). I am pretty sure though, that it isn't likely to ever stop.

 

[Maggie O]

Yeah, after all this is The Internets.

That said, the guy in the article has lots of good points about the M8 as a war correspondent's tool and I'd get behind his suggested changes. A more robust and rough-and-tumble Leica DRF would be a wonderful thing indeed.

 

[nei1]

Maggie,what I think it must be like is buying a mercedes and finding that it breaks down like any other car.

 

[Maggie O]

Maggie,what I think it must be like is buying a mercedes and finding that it breaks down like any other car.

Heh!

Yeah, reality is a bitch, innit?

 

[nei1]

Thats what makes it real.

 

[Maggie O]

Well, not really. What makes it a bitch is not the nature of reality, but rather the collision of our illusion of what reality should be and the dissonance of our desires versus what is real.

But this isn't the place for Buddhist ruminations.

Carry on.

 

[TRSmith]

But this isn't the place for Buddhist ruminations.

Carry on.

Aww. Bummer. I was so in the mood for some Buddhist ruminations.

p.s. must be the humidity bringing out the smart aleck in me. I better go line up a few chakras.

 

[nei1]

I was talking about my dog

 

[Mango]

The Bolsheviks on other forums (no names mentioned!) really enjoy taking the piss out of Leica Camera AG. Part of this is due to a sociological phenomenon. We tend to become envious of things that are within reach. For example, we're less likely to be envious of a Warren Buffett or a Bill Gates, but are more likely to be envious of our neighbour who has a better job or a better house, because that is something within our reach, and we haven't "reached" it.

The M8 represents that item from a company whose products were within reach of the Bolsheviks, but has now crossed over into unreachable territory for most. You don't hear about these same people complaining about not having a $200,000+ car, for that is clearly out of their reach, nor do you hear about them complaining about the Medium Format Digital Backs, the exotic cars of the camera world (way out of my reach).

If you discount all this noise, then the M8 is not a bad camera. Also, most of these critics have never handled one, nor seen the quality of the digital files from them. I know, because I used to be one of them, until I crossed over after tasting Jack and Guy's heroin. Really despicable people, these two. :ROTFL::thumbs:

 

[Woody Campbell]

I actually don't think that the M8 is any less capable in a combat situation than its Leica predessors. With the M3 you got 36 exposures as fast as you could crank the film advance. Assuming two bodies that's 72 exposures. Focus and exposure were only as good as you could make them. Film got lost going back to the agency or your publication. Here is a link to Robert Capa's famous images from D-day in Normandy:

Capa from Omaha Beach

You should note that most images are out of focus. Not perfectly exposed. Capa or Life lost almost all of the film he took on Omaha beach.

What's changed is our expectations of what's possible under these harsh conditions. The M8 reviewer reflects these expectations, based on what's possible with the D3, for example. Leica can't compete for the most demanding PJs business with a 1954 design. That's still fine with me, because the M8 works very well in the situations where I use it.

 

[nei1]

" and the dog said,"arf" " (Zappa)

 

[jlm]

re: nei1
more like buying a new top dollar mercedes and finding you have to tune the radio with a knob because the presets don't work, or the ABS goes out all the time, so you have to bring it to the dealer over and over, or the seat recliners don't work, etc. even though on you basic 5 year old Camry, all of the above works pretty well. the Merc has a lot of style though, and is great to cruise in when it works

 

[S.P.]

Honestly, what is it about the M8 that turns otherwise reasonable people into hyperbole machines?

The love for Leica.

If you never used M with film you don´t know how fine the Leicas have been up to the M6TTL.

I have 5 fine M-Lenses and am waiting for a digital body for this lenses with:

• Flash synchronous socket
• Sealing against dust and humidity
• Light balance with 1/3 steps accuracy in the M-mode + time displayed in the viewfinder
• Modern one, small exposure range of a digital camera appropriate exposure measuring method
• Alternative current supply for reports in areas without 110/220V-Voltage (battery part for mignon cells)
• Accuracy of the agreement of the viewfinderframes with the picture
• Automatic system for sensor cleaning
• Quiet catch elevator engine
• Noise-free high ISO values
• Integrated picture stabilizer
• No need to use IR/UV-Filters

And reliable as an M3

 

[Maggie O]

So, in other words, Standards Are Down All Over. (and that makes folks crazy)

 

[jaapv]

I actually don't think that the M8 is any less capable in a combat situation than its Leica predessors. With the M3 you got 36 exposures as fast as you could crank the film advance. Assuming two bodies that's 72 exposures. Focus and exposure were only as good as you could make them. Film got lost going back to the agency or your publication. Here is a link to Robert Capa's famous images from D-day in Normandy:

Capa from Omaha Beach

You should note that most images are out of focus. Not perfectly exposed. Capa or Life lost almost all of the film he took on Omaha beach.

What's changed is our expectations of what's possible under these harsh conditions. The M8 reviewer reflects these expectations, based on what's possible with the D3, for example. Leica can't compete for the most demanding PJs business with a 1954 design. That's still fine with me, because the M8 works very well in the situations where I use it.

Well, it seems rather unlikely Robert Capa was using M cameras, seeing that they were introduced ten years after Omaha Beach What he did use were Leica screwmounts, which was the norm those days, they were used by concentration camp guards, "Propaganda Officers" on both sides, as "embedded journalists" like the gentleman we are discussing were called back then, and so forth. But not for quality or reliability, but because they were light and small, real advantages in combat situations. Just compare them to the regular press cameras of the day. There is too much romanticizing going on.

 

[fotografz]

I have 2 M8s and a slew of lenses. M8s are not out of my reach.

I don't give a rat's ass about having to remove the bottom plate any more than I did with a film M ... and I don't have to do it nearly as often with the M8. I like the look and feel of the camera ... it's a rangefinder. Even the cropped frame doesn't bug me, I'm not an extreme wide angle shooter anyway.

And Boo Hoo, it takes time to change the ISO ... an option not available on a film M, yet we seemed to go on with life.

However, Leica has taken on the philosophy of making their problems, my problems. For the first year of ownership, the camera was off being repaired for half that time. That's a problem. 6 months of warranty time was eaten up doing ... drum roll ... warranty work!

But the worst thing about it all is that I have lost the confidence I once had to shoot my work with a M ... which is a real problem, since it was part and parcel of my style ... and without an M it has shown in the overall end-result.

But I keep trying.

 

[Bob]

Perhaps I am a member of the меньшинство.
Do I miss the display of shutter speed in the M8 in manual mode- NO I just set it on the dial. Seems a lot like the MP. I love my M8...but
Sure, The issues are there, and the M8 has more than its share of them, but the images Oh La La! really more to do with weak AA and 72lp/mm resolution along with some lenses that are not half bad.
My D3 is relegated to limited roles that the M8 cannot handle. It is a boring camera with an over-active paparazzi mode.
Oh, and no, the M8 is not the be-all-and-end-all, it is not an all-weather-night-fighter-bomber-reconnaissance drone. It is a decent camera with a few problems.
What I hope that Leica hears, is that I don't give a rat's gluteus maximus if there is 1.5 stories behind an M8 and I loath the Hermes/Montblanc marketing image, what I hope is that we finally get rid of the mad hatter display, the need to occasionally re-boot by removing the battery, and for GOD'S sake please fix service and figure out how to calibrate your lenses and rangefinders. Buy out DAG for whatever it takes and just do IT or give IT UP.
The line that divides love and hate is fine indeed. Pleasure and pain and not strangers either.
Please save me from this whining and show me some pictures that you bothered to focus.
-bob

 

[scott kirkpatrick]

Well, it seems rather unlikely Robert Capa was using M cameras, seeing that they were introduced ten years after Omaha Beach What he did use were Leica screwmounts, which was the norm those days, they were used by concentration camp guards, "Propaganda Officers" on both sides, as "embedded journalists" like the gentleman we are discussing were called back then, and so forth. But not for quality or reliability, but because they were light and small, real advantages in combat situations. Just compare them to the regular press cameras of the day. There is too much romanticizing going on.

Totally OT, but Capa took a Rollei and two Contaxes with him on the landing craft, and only the two Contaxes into the water. (Source for that is his autobiography.) As far as i can figure out, he last used LTMs in the first part of the Spanish Civil War, and took his picture of the just-shot rifleman with one of them. He always tried to use the "newest" and the "best" and during the 1940's that was the Contax.

scott

 

[Guy Mancuso]

I have not read what happened to this guy and honestly don't have to. Bottom line in a war zone in those conditions anything can and will happen to any body. There disposable items in these type of conditions for any camera be it Nikon, Canon , leica or anything else. Just the blowing sand will eat anything so on that level what the hell do you expect. On the level of the M8 and what it does not have is something maybe you don't need anyway to get it done. These are not P&S cameras and i think the mentality on this coming from being somewhat spoiled of what Nikon and Canon do with Auto everything. Let's face it no many want to work at shooting, some of us do because we love to but the vast majority wants to pick up a camera and not work at it. The M8 is a working camera in this sense , good , bad or indifferent that is what it is and folks will never stop whining about it, i have given up on all threads that people complain , just not worth my energy anymore because they still don't get the fact you have to work at it. The M8 is not perfect no question but it does deliver images and very good ones. The bottom line to me is either you understand this and accept it or you don't but i do agree with Marc service time is not what it should be and it does become our problem and leica needs to not just fix this but make it a priority before they announce anything else because it will not be easy to sell anything until this issue is solved and they better realize that.