Disappointing Newsletter from Zeiss

[Sean_Reid]

Okay, as a neophyte when it comes to Leica, my question was going to be what does coding get you; but that's has been answered to some degree.

So my new question is:
1.) What (if anything) is different about using a coded vs. uncoded lens on an M6?
2.) Is it always better to have a lens coded? Is there every a time you would rather have an uncoded lens? Why/Why not?

Thanks!

-Chris

Hi Chris,

There's a site you might want to be reading. <G>

1) A coded lens won't make the slightest difference on an M6.

2) That question takes a long time to answer. Here's where the many articles I've written on this could really come in handy. As a rule, life with IR filters is easier if a lens is coded unless its wider than 21 mm. Then, much can be debated.

Introduction in a nutshell:

12 mm - coding mostly a waste of time

15 - 18 mm - coding vs. Cornerfix can be debated

21 mm - 35/40 mm - coding makes life much easier but Cornerfix is an alternative

50 mm and longer - coding not strictly needed

There's a lot to read on this topic.

Cheers.

Sean

 

[Sean_Reid]

LOL Nice though they are, sometimes it seems to me that buying a Zeiss lens is more like pissing into the wind than trying to catch it!

Hi Jono,

I don't think that's really fair. The M8's IR problem is not the fault of Zeiss lenses. My "try and catch the wind" was all of the energy I've put (meetings included) into trying to get certain improvements implemented in the M8 firmware. A few made it, most didn't.

Cheers,

Sean

 

[jonoslack]

Hi Jono,

I don't think that's really fair. The M8's IR problem is not the fault of Zeiss lenses. My "try and catch the wind" was all of the energy I've put (meetings included) into trying to get certain improvements implemented in the M8 firmware. A few made it, most didn't.

Cheers,

Sean

Well, smart ass replies aren't usually fair so I apologise.
Of course, I understand where the cause of the problem lies - my original criticism with respect to Zeiss was that they made the rather glib remarks about using their lenses on the M8. It would be better for all of us if the matter was acknowledged and explained, and it was made easier to deal with. I realise they can't do the recessions themselves - but surely something simpler than two trips across the Atlantic and an invalidated warranty could be achieved!

As far as your remark about the firmware:
"most didn't"
rather implies that they aren't going to either?

 

[Sean_Reid]

Well, smart ass replies aren't usually fair so I apologise.
Of course, I understand where the cause of the problem lies - my original criticism with respect to Zeiss was that they made the rather glib remarks about using their lenses on the M8. It would be better for all of us if the matter was acknowledged and explained, and it was made easier to deal with. I realise they can't do the recessions themselves - but surely something simpler than two trips across the Atlantic and an invalidated warranty could be achieved!

As far as your remark about the firmware:
"most didn't"
rather implies that they aren't going to either?

I agree that the Zeiss article was misleading. It reminds me of when another company suggested we needed IR-cut filters only for pictures of black fabrics <G>. But that's not to pick on Leica, all these companies try to put the best possible spin on things. It's the nature of corporations and I'm always surprised when any of them actually just tell the truth.

In Zeiss's case, the truth would be something like: "Our lenses are not coded for the M8's in-camera corrections but here's a piece of software that often does an even better job with cyan drift and vignetting than the M8 itself." Then a bit about *free* Cornerfix.

Yes, there seem to be certain firmware changes that we're just not going to see. Alas... Got your e-mail and will reply soon.

Cheers,

Sean

 

[robsteve]

I guess there are two sides to the problem. The Zeiss lenses are ZM mount for their Ikon camera. Who are we to complain that they will not work like we want on a Leica camera? Does Zeiss state anywhere in the lterature that they are Leica M mount for Leica cameras?

I looked at the Zeiss site and there was no mention of Leica, just M mount. I found this quote interesting. "We decided to design our own camera body because other cameras simply cannot match the performance standards of our lenses."

 

[Sean_Reid]

I looked at the Zeiss site and there was no mention of Leica, just M mount. I found this quote interesting. "We decided to design our own camera body because other cameras simply cannot match the performance standards of our lenses."

Modest, aren't they? Marketing is mostly pretend. I tested the Ikon and the M7 side by side. The Zeiss actually has a slightly better finder but the overall refinement level of the M7 (fit, finish, shutter sound, etc.) was much higher.

Cheers,

Sean

 

[jonoslack]

I guess there are two sides to the problem. The Zeiss lenses are ZM mount for their Ikon camera. Who are we to complain that they will not work like we want on a Leica camera? Does Zeiss state anywhere in the lterature that they are Leica M mount for Leica cameras?

I looked at the Zeiss site and there was no mention of Leica, just M mount. I found this quote interesting. "We decided to design our own camera body because other cameras simply cannot match the performance standards of our lenses."

Hi Rob,
Well, in this newsletter they did say they were suitable for the M8 (they didn't mention Leica, but they did mention the M8).

Still, I wasn't complaining per se (although it might have sounded like it ). As Sean says - I also recognise (and sympathise) with marketing departments when I see them in operation!

My point really was that Zeiss seem to be missing a trick here, in that they could be selling a great deal more ZM lenses to M8 users if they made a little effort (without necessarily breaking Leica's patents).

The obvious option for them (of course) is to bring out a digital Ikon, and the success of the M8 must surely be giving them pause for thought.

 

[ChrisDauer]

Thanks Woody and Sean (nice review site Sean!).

I'll definite look to get coded lenses in the future. Question though.

If an M9 has a different level of cyan problem, would the lenses have to be re-coded?

 

[sandymc]

If an M9 has a different level of cyan problem, would the lenses have to be re-coded?

No - the lens code is just an index into a table of lens correction information that's held in firmware. If the M9 had different cyan characteristics, then the firmware would be different, so no change to the lens coding would be required. At least for that reason.

Sandy

 

[Guy Mancuso]

Thanks Woody and Sean (nice review site Sean!).

I'll definite look to get coded lenses in the future. Question though.

If an M9 has a different level of cyan problem, would the lenses have to be re-coded?

No the lenses will never have to re coded for any upcoming leica , it would be a nightmare for them. not a chance in the world they would do that. We may not need the IR filters though but the coding orginaly was for vignetting to begin with and with FF camera it will have to be there also , just different firmware to deal with that on FF

 

[jonoslack]

No the lenses will never have to re coded for any upcoming leica , it would be a nightmare for them. not a chance in the world they would do that. We may not need the IR filters though but the coding orginaly was for vignetting to begin with and with FF camera it will have to be there also , just different firmware to deal with that on FF

FF? I see, so the M9 will be FF will it
That's great, we'll be able to have fun dealing with all those dodgy edges and corners

Mind you, if they can't put an IR filter in camera on a crop sensor, it seems even less likely they'll be able to do it on FF - personally I think the filters and coding are here to stay. . . . If I was cynical, then I'd say it was also a way to ensure that Mx users stuck to Leica lenses, because it was so much more difficult to deal with those from other manufacturers . . but of course, I'm not really cynical.

 

[Sean_Reid]

No - the lens code is just an index into a table of lens correction information that's held in firmware. If the M9 had different cyan characteristics, then the firmware would be different, so no change to the lens coding would be required. At least for that reason.

Sandy

Exactly

Sandy, BTW, is the author of Cornerfix and has become quite knowledgeable about cyan drift, corrections, etc.

Cheers,

Sean