the DMR 'bible' - wher is it?

[Homey]

Hi all.
Sorry I missed the bible thread.
I actually found this forum searching for the original thread.
Without opening a huge can of worms, I would like to hear the details of what the original thread contained.
I am most curious in the details of what the DMR does better than the Canon cameras and what are the good points of a Canon 1Ds MII compared to the DMR.

I am well aware of the stupid filter Canon continues to put on their sensors and quite frankly I am sick of it.
If that is the only difference then I am aware of it. If not please fill me in.

Thanks in advance for all the replies.

Steven

 

[robsteve]

Steven:

To summarize the differences:

DMR had a more pleasing film like color staight out of the box. The EOS 1Ds MkII could get close but needed a lot of post processing.

The DMR had about a stop better dynamic range. In use, it could hold detail in highlights better.

The DMR took Leica glass that was much better than the Canon glass and could also take some of the Leica lenses that would not fit Canon, such as the 15mm f2.8.

The DMR produced as sharp or sharper images because of the lack of AA filter.

The DMR images had more fine detail and smoother tones. This gave nicer skin tones and skin that did not have the plastic look.

The EOS 1Ds MkII was better at high ISO, though with the new firmware, the DMR is probably about the same to 400iso and close at 800iso.

reidreviews had a side by side comaprison of the two cameras with sample images. It included shooting the same lens on both cameras.

http://www.reidreviews.com/reidreviews/

Robert

 

[robsteve]

Here are a couple images I contributed to the original DMR Bible thread. The football images alone convinced a couple people to try the DMR. Not only did the DMR hold the highlights, but you can see the individual threads in the jerseys.

 

[jaapv]

Every time I see a crop from a DMR file, I get that much closer to buying one --- it's what I wanted the 1Ds3 file to look like. I hate to though, because it's "old" technology and the R10 is on the horizon, but a horizon that is probably a year or more off... But given what I saw after waiting on the 1Ds3, and R9/DMR is looking like the viable alternative.

Glad to hear that, Jack. After all, I just sunk what amounts to a hefty sum for an amateur in the thing. Having said that, I am very pleased with the results. Now I am looking into lenses for wildlife. The Noflexar performs well, but is a beast to carry around, so I would like a 105-280 with the1.4x apo. But those are few and far between, and @#$%#$ expensive....

 

[Stuart Richardson]

Jaap -- I have been thinking about the 105-280 myself, but I have the 180/2.8 apo and the apo 2x, so I can't really justify it. But if you are interested, you might like to know that KEH has two of them for sale at the moment for pretty good (I would assume) prices...2099 for bargain and 2899 for LN-. Sure, that's a lot of money, but weren't they 6000 bucks or something new? I would go for the bargain one, knowing KEH it is probably in really great shape with only a scratch or two on the barrel.
As for the DMR, it really does make some lovely files. This is not the greatest portrait ever, but the DMR gives lovely skin tones and rendition. This is with the 180/2.8 APO:

 

[doug]

I am looking into lenses for wildlife.

Have you considered the 400mm f/6.8? It's much lighter and less bulky than the Novoflex, and much less $$$ than the 105-280 Vario.

 

[fotografz]

Here at the ready Peter, a diehard DMR/9 user from day one. 35/1.4, 80/1.4 are the prime 2 lenses I use on it. Eventually will get a 19/2.8 and 70-180/2.8 Zoom once a passel of R lenses sell. But no hurry ... the DMR/9 is my personal camera for "Me" work.

Here's a tip: Immediately download Hasselblad Flexcolor version 4.8.4 off the Hasselblad site ( remember, it was Imacon that developed the DMR module). Steep learning curve, but blows away everything else. If needed, I can help you get through the basics of Flex. if you aren't already using it.

Everyone with a DMR should keep their fingers crossed that Hasselblad continues listing the DMR as supported when they launch "PHOCUS" ... the spiffy new RAW engine that has an interface like Lightroom.

 

[PeterA]

Hey Marc - I will definately appreciate some tips on Flexcolour and give it a go..I have my fingers crossed hoping that Phocus - will support the DMR , it would certainly be a very generous gesture on the part of Imacon.

I have held off moving to hasselblad back - awaiting Phocus and the bottom of the current price discounting/changeover deals available....it seems that phocus has been delayed longer than initially expected?

 

[overgaarcom]

I have a few questions.

1) Is there a description of a simple, workable workflow for starting using FlexColor on DMR files
2) Does the latest FlexColor 4.8.6 support DMR or does one have to go back on an earlier version?
3) Can the Phocus 1.0 work DMR files? [I found he answer here YES, via FlexColor: http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2058 ]

I'm asking because I will be getting my DMR in a week and need to learn to use it very fast before a trip. And though I can see Leica DMR in the list of cameras (inactive though) I also tested with a couple of DNG files from a DMR that would not work in Phocus 1.0.

My intention was to use Phase One (for RAW conversion) and Microsoft Expression Media (as database) but I understand that the FlexColor is the standard for the best DMR results (which I'm kind of happy with because I already use that for my scanner - but I've never used it with a camera).

Hope someone can throw a little rope my way...

 

[doug]

1) Is there a description of a simple, workable workflow for starting using FlexColor on DMR files

What I do is tweak the curves to set the white point and black point, then often warm it up a bit by reducing cyan and bumping up the yellow a bit. The files hardly ever need anything else.

 

[robsteve]

When using Flexcolor, you need to import the DMR dng files. It then converts the files into a Imacon 3ff format. You can then open the scratchpad and work on the files.

Once the files are imported into Flexcolor, Phocus will open the 3ff versions of them in the scratchpad.

For DMR files to work in Flexcolor, or Phocus, they cannot have been modified by third party programs that may alter the file. On a Mac, an unaltered DMR file should be 19.5mb. If it is smaller, it has been altered by a third party program.

Robert

 

[overgaarcom]

Thanks Doug and Rogert,

That is simple and helpful. I just tried a couple of original DNG files I had from my test shoot of the DMR back when it was released and although I'm not familiar with using FlexColor yet, it's such a simple application I'm sure I'll get the hang of it real soon.

The trouble I had yesterday testing it was exactly because the files were not original ones. The 19.5 MB rule is a good one - and it did work!

I've updated my http://www.overgaard.dk/leica_digital_back_R.html page which is pretty unprofessional as it is now. But I'll try to build a knowledge base there as I get into using the DMR and obtain better results. I anyone has advice or other they want to add, please feel free to do so as I will gladly host advice and knowledge, as I do with for example the http://www.overgaard.dk/leica_lens_compendium.html which is mainly Justin Scott's knowledge made available broadly, helped by Doug and I.

 

[robsteve]

It took you a while to make the buying decision Looks like your test shots were made almost three years ago.

BTW, with Flexcolor, there is an A that does an auto levels to get the files pretty close. You can adjust the default white and black points and other defaults under the file/setup menu. Once you find the settings you like, you can save that setup for use when importing the DNG files.

Robert

 

[Arne Hvaring]

Has anyone noticed whether the new and improved Flexcolor has resolved the olive/yellow cast in greens (like in grass) issue that has bothered me re colours from the DMR when converted in C1. There is also the occasional weak cyan tinge to the sky that needs to be corrected IMO.

 

[overgaarcom]

Almost three years, yes!

Truly, I wasn't really satisfied with the look then and have said I would go digital as soon as I could produce film-like results in digital.

I seem to have come to that point where I might not be able to produce exact the film look, but a personal look I'm satisfied with, from digital files. Plus some advantages such as sharpness/clarity and speed of workflow. And I have been using Digilux 2 almost exclusively for ten months now and felt I had to get some DOF and tele capability.

The work I saw from Doug some months ago convinced me it was time because I could see it was an improvement from his film work.

I must admit the DMR has come a long way further since then with the firmware update as well as Capture One and FlexColor.

And I've stayed ignorant all the time, by the way. Not until a couple of weeks ago did I discover on the forums that there was in fact a lot of satisfied DMR users praising the DMR!

 

[robsteve]

I think one of the mistakes you made in your early tests is that you did not have enough time to learn the system.

In particular, we learned that you need to focus carefully on what you want sharp in the image because the focus was much more critical in Digital. Shooting using DOF did not give sharp images.

Avoiding over exposure was important too. I remember a lot of discussion regarding some color fringing on blown highlight on one of your church shots. Part of it was over exposure and some of it was the lens, but everybody wanted to blame the camera.

The DMR is also very critical of lens quality. The latest generation of lenses worked best on it, especially the APO or ASPH lenses. Even though I have the 21-35mm ASPH, if I want the best quality on the wide end, I use my 19mm Elmarit.

In the last few years, the raw processors have also gotten better with the DMR files. Flexcolor still has the best color, but for convenience, I tend to use Lightroom. It is only where there is a need for critical color such as skin tones or there are a lot of reds in a picture that I may try the same image in Flexcolor or Capture one.

Let us know when your DMR arrives and please post some pictures.

Robert