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Leica pricing on the used market

Double Negative

Not Available
I might point out that buying used lenses (sorry, "tested around the house" is still used) that are currently available - especially at higher than MSRP is stupid. Unless you plan to use the seller as a middle-man for all future service - the warranty does not transfer and you'll have to get it fixed/adjusted on YOUR OWN DIME. Consider this before you buy a price-gouged item. This is why I have to laugh at people that obviously have more money than brains and buy these.

And what the hell are people buying brand new, expensive lenses for if only to "test them out around the house?" That's bullsh!t. You bought the lens to resell and figured you'd give it a whirl while you had it. Congrats, you just "used" a lens.
 

monza

Active member
Hi Roger,

I've had many discussions with Leica about some sort of registration system. It was particularly bad right after the M9 launch, as the camera was in such high demand. I would spend a lot of time with clients (some even members of this forum) who would place orders with me, only to have them cancel and buy elsewhere, when another dealer got in a shipment before we did.

This of course is a regular event with lenses now...a funny side story looking back: Precision had new Leica lenses in stock for literally YEARS that did not move, until the M9 was released. They had one 50/2 Summicron silver in stock so long, that their accountants decided to write it off! So it was on the books for $0, yet still in stock (yes, made no real sense but that's an other discussion.) Needless to say, someone got a very good deal on that lens (a forum member here as a matter of fact.)

It would make a lot of sense for a buyer to put in an order with a dealer, and be locked in with that dealer thru Leica. Leica would know that Joe Smith is on the list at dealer X, with an associated order date.

As it is, many buyers (who are not scalpers at all, just photographers who want the camera or lens now, instead of months from now) are putting in orders with multiple dealers, and whichever dealer is lucky enough to get the first shipment gets the sale. Of course, when M9s were tight there was usually another customer right behind to take their place, but it ended up wasting a lot of the dealer's (my) time. Communicating with a customer 100+ times over several months, giving status reports, etc. only to end up losing the sale to another dealer in another state (due to a random event )after all that work is not a fun experience.

Of course, Leica was very gracious when we described the registration idea. But that's as far as it went. They are always very polite when saying no, haha. Speaking frankly, they know they are going to sell everything they manufacture; so why do they need to do any extra work to support the dealers? It's just not going to happen.

I have absolutely nothing against anyone buying something, and selling it at a profit. After all, that's what I do every day. :) But there is a place for selling gear to the highest offer...
 

fotografz

Well-known member
I for one think anyone who can sell a Leica anything for more than retail, should be able to do so if they wish.

After decades of taking a scalding bath on photographic gear ... especially digital stuff that changes faster than a clown at a kid's party, it is refreshing to see at least someone making up for it ... even if it's at the expense of some impatient "must haver" ... so what?

Like has been said by many others ... never sell your Leica M stuff, you may never be able to buy it again :banghead:

-Marc
 

monza

Active member
I'm curious what would happen if I, representing an authorized dealer, listed a 35 Lux FLE for $8650 or a Noct at $14,000 on this forum.
 

Double Negative

Not Available
I'm curious what would happen if I, representing an authorized dealer, listed a 35 Lux FLE for $8650 or a Noct at $14,000 on this forum.
You'd be laughed out of town - and rightfully so. Unfortunately though, I don't think Leica would pull your dealership status.

It's sad that people feel the need to take advantage of the market, other forum members and hurt them, Leica and their dealers.

I will not take part in this and certainly won't line the pockets of cretins that try to do so.
 

rayyan

Well-known member
What I say applies to ' luxury ' items like Leica lenses.

Sell a lens for as high a price as one can get in a market. If someone buys it,
good. You made a profit. There is nothing immoral or unethical about it.

The only caveat is that one did not misrepresent the condition of the article being sold.

It is how the market has worked all along.

What's wrong if one buys 3 lenses, keeps one for his/her use and sells the others at a profit.

Get real. Look around you, that is how the market operates.

Pay to play. or look for another playground of a little less luxury.

Point of view it is. A $1 can help a starving child. $4000 buys a lens.
It is really a matter of priorities and one's point of view.
 

Double Negative

Not Available
...The only caveat is that one did not misrepresent the condition of the article being sold.

It is how the market has worked all along.

What's wrong if one buys 3 lenses, keeps one for his/her use and sells the others at a profit...
Maybe this is how you do business. It's clear this is how some people here do business. Call it what you want - but it's greedy and disgusting.

Misrepresentation. "LNIB" or "this is a new lens" when you've "taken test shots off the balcony" is wrong. It's now a USED LENS, period. Further more, buying a lens whether or not the person "tested it" has no warranty. It stops with the original buyer. So what if it's a hot lens? Why should I pay more for less?

Buying multiple copies. I, as an honest Leica customer can't buy a lens because some sh!thead ordered five of them with the intent of reselling them at a generous profit is also WRONG. Perhaps not illegal, and "how the market works" but it's still unethical and proves to me the kind of person the seller is. On principle I will not do business with such types.

Call it what you want, condone this behavior all you want. It's still not right.
 

rayyan

Well-known member
No point in getting all upset about high prices for luxury items. And no point in calling people names.

Making a profit..an honest profit..is neither immoral nor unethical. Specially when we are restricting ourselves to luxury items.

For many many years certain regions of the world had access to Leica lenses.
They were priced for that market.

There have been collectors of all things..stamps, gold coins etc.

Now other regions seem to have the resources to play too. The same ' game ' that was played by others.

Just because someone buys 2 houses instead of 1 does not make him or her dishonest. If a profit is made, honestly..good luck. Else the buyer suffers the loss.

Can't afford something, look for something else. One should get their priorities right, their financial management realistic, and their expectations in line with market prices..for luxuries of life like yatchs, gulfstream jets, and Leica lenses.

No use saying that the Lear jet costs have increased or that of Leica lenses.

Take a train ( if one has one ) or a bus. Or better use a cv lens.

If one always looks up, one is not thankful for what one has. Should look at those that cannot dream of affording a camera. Leica or otherwise.

p.s as to selling lenses..I would never sell to a buyer that wants yesterday's prices.
 

Double Negative

Not Available
Maybe it's just me. But I think of photography as a passion and as a means of supporting myself in business. if I buy a lens, it's to USE it for same. If I want to sell something, especially to fellow forum members that I converse with, often on a daily basis - I'm not going to try and screw them. I'll ask a FAIR market value for the item.

This notion that Leica gear is a "luxury item" may be true to an extent, but it's also a tool for actual photographers - not just speculators, collectors and bottom feeders. And it seems to me that the FS section here at GetDPI has been running amok of late.

In the end, a few greedy people pocket profits and in the meantime, honest photographers, Leica and their dealers are getting screwed. Thanks to these people, Leica may very well one day decide to jack up the prices - trying to get some of this cheese for themselves. Again, the honest people will get screwed.

The irony is when these same people that gouge their own sale prices then lowball you on yours, which are fairly priced!

Anyway, I've said my peace on this nonsense. I'm done. I hope that GetDPI can return to its former normality and friendliness, or I for one - will no longer take part.
 

atanabe

Member
It is a free market system, GetDPI provides a website that allows Sellers to set their price and the Buyers to decide if they want to pay that price. Guy and Jack set this up so that members of the community can buy and sell their gear in an open marketplace free from fees. So if a seller wants to unload his xx gear so that he/she can buy some yy gear they set a price that they feel is reasonable if someone wants to buy that lens/camera/widget for xx$ then great, more power to the seller. But when the seller stockpiles a whole cache of lenses bought from various dealers all over the world with the intent to profit, then sells them on the forum, that borders on commercial sales.

It is tempting to do this, what other investment today can net you 30% return in a couple of days? I am not innocent of making a profit, nor innocent of taking a loss as well. Lenses that I bought years ago sold for much more than I bought them so I am guilty of turning a profit. But I made the profit based on market prices and not with the purpose of cornering the market and selling at a premium.

I travel frequently and have in the past few months found little dealers that still had stock on their shelves. I must admit that I was tempted to purchase the entire inventory of 35 Luxes and sell them on the 'bay for a handsome profit. But instead I posted the availability on this forum for members to benefit from this information. I can only hope that they did not buy and sell for a profit but instead enjoyed the use of the lens.

Ring, Ring . . . my conscious is calling :)
 

rayyan

Well-known member
Just because one is an ' honest ' photographer does not mean other photogs are dishonest.

It also does not mean Leica or I owe an ' honest ' photographer to produce or sell a lens at a price that is not suitable for a business or for a person.

This is not ' nonsense '. This is a fact of life. The fact of a market based economy for luxury items.

An item value is relative. Luxury for one might be a necessity for another.

Normality is the market price..specially for luxury items.

As I said before, nobody is ' screwing ' others. Asking price it is. If one does not get it, the price might be lowered.

On the other side, If one cannot afford it..don't play in the market.

For really good friends, one might even part with a lens below market price.
That does mean finding two really good friends.

Anyways, no one is indispensable. The forum shall continue. Just as as life does and will. With or without me or anybody else.

And so shall the markets.
 

stephengilbert

Active member
"I'm curious what would happen if I, representing an authorized dealer, listed a 35 Lux FLE for $8650 or a Noct at $14,000 on this forum."

Other than whatever problems you might have with Leica, the answer is easy: the free marketeers would applaud you and your decision, and others, like me, would question your ethics.
 

Bob

Administrator
Staff member
"I'm curious what would happen if I, representing an authorized dealer, listed a 35 Lux FLE for $8650 or a Noct at $14,000 on this forum."

Other than whatever problems you might have with Leica, the answer is easy: the free marketeers would applaud you and your decision, and others, like me, would question your ethics.
This is the truth.
Whatever you do, you will be judged, and depending on the orientation of the observer, you may be judged differently.
-bob
 

TimothyHyde

Subscriber Member
I'm with Marc: we should be happy that Leica demand outstrips supply, and that all my current lenses are worth more than they were a couple of years ago. This NEVER happens with camera equipment. And, I'm cheerful about the premium I paid for my hard-to-find lens, especially as I use it almost every day. It was money well spent.
 

monza

Active member
"I'm curious what would happen if I, representing an authorized dealer, listed a 35 Lux FLE for $8650 or a Noct at $14,000 on this forum."

Other than whatever problems you might have with Leica, the answer is easy: the free marketeers would applaud you and your decision, and others, like me, would question your ethics.
Of all the responses I thought that post would generate, I have to admit I didn't expect people to think Leica would have an issue with selling over list price. Minimum advertised price (MAP) is common in the industry, but I've never heard of a maximum. :)

Seriously, there is nothing in the Leica dealer agreement that would prevent this. What's interesting is that sales on ebay are prevented, yet, some high profile dealers do this all the time. One in particular seemed to have a never ending supply of lenses that were listed as used, but never actually used (USED, ESTATE SALE, NEVER MOUNTED ON A CAMERA.)
 

Bob

Administrator
Staff member
Of all the responses I thought that post would generate, I have to admit I didn't expect people to think Leica would have an issue with selling over list price. Minimum advertised price (MAP) is common in the industry, but I've never heard of a maximum. :)

Seriously, there is nothing in the Leica dealer agreement that would prevent this. What's interesting is that sales on ebay are prevented, yet, some high profile dealers do this all the time. One in particular seems to have a never ending supply of lenses that are listed as used, but never actually used (USED, ESTATE SALE, NEVER MOUNTED ON A CAMERA.)

Might that imply that buyers have a habit of "having the big one" upon opening the credit card envelope after a lens is purchased?
And Leica, well if I saw gear going for significantly greater than msrp, and if there was no competitive reason against it I would raise prices.
-bob
 

rayyan

Well-known member
Pricing is determined by the market.

We are talking about ' luxury' goods.

If someone offered to sell me a leica lens at an exorbitant price, and the lens
was in perfect condition ( or as described by the seller ), I have the following options..

1: not buy the lens.

2: bargain to get a better price.

3: buy the lens.

Ethics does not enter into the picture at all. The seller is honest. The item
being sold is as described. The market price might be lower or higher; the seller is setting his price.

I am not forced to buy this lens. Or any leica equipment. There are competing brands available. I want Leica..I have to pay the asking price. Or make do without it.

I want to go to the Antartic. The P&O cruise lines are charging me too much!!
Oh! whatever shall I do. I cannot afford the royal suite!! They should lower
their price for my vacation. Or they must be unethical, because they know
I want this cruise and I want the Royal Suite.

Oh! the misery of it all!! And I want the M9-P priced like my M8; to take it on vacation.
Life is so so unfair.
 

stephengilbert

Active member
The free marketeers ignore two things:

First, this is supposed to be a forum of friends, and you don't gouge your friends when dealing with them;

Second, there is a selfish aspect to many of the defenders of the market, i.e., "I already have all the Leica gear I want, so I'm happy with rising prices, and screw everyone else."
 
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