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Leica pricing on the used market

leicashot

New member
Seems from looking at many used Leica ads recently that consumers are making more $$$ on new/mint Leica products than retailers. Ethically, it really sucks that this is happening because it creates a market that prohibits potentially good photographers from accessing such equipment, where only people with deeper pockets prevail.

I know its cameras like the X100 and M 4/3 cameras that are pushing demand towards the Leica M system, but this is getting ridiculous. I'm even seeing Leica dealers selling above list price now too. Some had held back on selling the Ti M9 and now selling for at least $10k more than list, on a new camera.

I know the market pushes prices this way, but at this rate I'm not sure I'll ever be able to justify owning a 'Leica' lens again, especially when there are such good alternatives with Zeiss and Voigtlander.

Your thoughts?
 

ashwinrao1

Active member
I'm with you, Kristian. Interesting times. thankfully, I have a great kit that I purchased before overinflation has taken over the Leica Market. I must admit to selling some lenses and making a tad of profit to meet the market, but would have a hard time justifying prices above new as sale prices...however, I guess the market does set the prices, and Leica can't seem to make enough to meet demands....to be honest, it seems wierd....why can't they produce lenses? I hear that there is a 1 year!!! wait on getting a new 50 lux asph, and a similar wait for the 35 lux FLE. The Noct f0.95 may not even have such a clear timeline, and the first 2 lenses are likely to be the most popular in Leica's high end glass.

Now, even Zeiss glass is hard to come by. Try finding a Zeiss 50 Sonnar new!?! Can't be done...

I think that with the diversification of the camera market (similar to what happened in film...many bodies, many shapes, many types of cameras, not just SLR's), Leica has grown in popularity, and with a flood of new bodies, there are not enough lenses.

I just hope Leica doesn't use the market to base their own prices...thankfully, I have most, if not all, of the lenses that I need...just want that 21 super elmar LOL....
 

leicashot

New member
I just hope Leica doesn't use the market to base their own prices...thankfully, I have most, if not all, of the lenses that I need...just want that 21 super elmar LOL....
You only want that lens cause it has the word 'SUPER' in the title right! ;)
 

ashwinrao1

Active member
You only want that lens cause it has the word 'SUPER' in the title right! ;)
LOL!!!

I'd even want it more if it were called the "Super Duper Elmar 21 mm f/3.4"...but I think they are reserving that title for their 14 mm elmar....

24 "elmar"
21 "super elmar"
18 "super elmar"
14 "super duper" elmar....with a cherry on top....

It'll be mine!LOL....
 

atanabe

Member
I...thankfully, I have most, if not all, of the lenses that I need...just want that 21 super elmar LOL....
Ashwin, don't confuse this with the other four letter word - need - your work is great with your current kit, go out and enjoy.
 

baudolino

Active member
It has become a bit of a sport to get a nice lens in the second hand market - one needs to be on his toes, check the dealer's pages etc. but it can be done - I managed to get a Cron 90 Apo Asph chrome version plus a black paint Cron 35 Asph in one trip to Leicashop Vienna (both used and mint - the "newly arrived" email hit my outlook at 1AM and I placed my order at 6AM the same day), a 50 Lux asph from ebay (chrome, mint, paid Eur 700 over list, ouch) and a mint Elmarit 24 Asph from Leica shop Vienna two days ago (Zeiss 25/28 finder is on its way from Hong Kong, via eBay). I've had the M9 since January this year - so it took me 6 months to get the lenses I wanted but now I feel I am done. Plus, one can start with pre-asph Leica lenses which are more available than the new glass and then upgrade when you find the newer lenses (I did this with the Cron 35, and the Vienna guys took back the version IV I had bought from them earlier in part exchange, at close to what I had paid for it). OK, the 35 Lux FLE would be cool and I've been on the waiting list for 4 months now but I don't feel I am suffering. Btw, Leicashop had at least one used M9 in the shop window two days ago, and had some new lenses in stock (I noticed the Cron 28 Asph but there were more). Frankly, I have more important things to worry about than the morality of the users making profit where Leica dealers could make it instead - it's the market.
 

fotografz

Well-known member
Frankly, I couldn't/wouldn't be able to buy my M gear today without some major sell-off of my gear closet. What I've been offered for my 0.95 and 75 Lux 6 bit German is flabbergasting. Trouble with selling them is I'd probably never be able to get them back again. Still, it's tempting.

Leica is like a mom & pop bakery ... merrily making apple fritters for the neighborhood. Then suddenly the world discovers them and the fritter guy can't make enough of them : -)

-Marc
 

Double Negative

Not Available
Whatever... I refuse to buy anything at obviously gouged prices. I'll wait until this passes. Thankfully, I don't really have a need for anything. Just desires. ;)
 

leicashot

New member
Frankly, I couldn't/wouldn't be able to buy my M gear today without some major sell-off of my gear closet. What I've been offered for my 0.95 and 75 Lux 6 bit German is flabbergasting. Trouble with selling them is I'd probably never be able to get them back again. Still, it's tempting.

Leica is like a mom & pop bakery ... merrily making apple fritters for the neighborhood. Then suddenly the world discovers them and the fritter guy can't make enough of them : -)

-Marc
C'mon Marc we all know you're made of money ;)

Don't you own the entire Hasselbald kit?! Hang on, didn't you just buy Hassselblad!?! hehe
 

D&A

Well-known member
The market for lenses, used and new and their respective prices and availability in the private marketplace will have it's periods of ups and downs. Although like many here I desire to find certain lenses, I either will ask if someone has one for sale or will look for one, but continue to use and enjoy what I have and ultimately along the way, one of them shows up. I agree though that prices have become astronomical on some, and puts them out of consideration. Still there are enough great and useful lenses in all focal lengths that can be had, by Leica and all the other 3rd parties and as always, it's the vision of the photographer and his abilities that will ultimately make a great image.

Dave (D&A)
 

Peter Klein

New member
Back in the 70s, I had an M2, 50 DR Summicron and 90 Tele-Elmarit. I paid about $650 for all three. Sold them after college because I didn't want to be in debt. I wish I hadn't. Shortly after, the Japanese collecting craze hit. Collector's representatives were hitting used camera fairs and paying double, triple, quadruple the price for anything Leica M. The market rose accordingly. That's why I shot with a IIIf and modest, (then) uncollectable LTM lenses for years.

I finally was able to afford to get back into M's around the turn of the century. I winced at the used prices, but at least I could do it. Now I see things are happening just like the early 80s, albeit for different reasons. I could probably get double what I paid for each of my Leica lenses now. So all I can do is say to myself, "thank goodness I've got what I've got." And wish I'd bought an f/1 Noctilux or a 50 Lux ASPH before the current craze hit.

I used to joke that Leica set its prices by tapping into my brain. Whatever was the highest price I would possibly pay, kicking and screaming, they doubled it. Well, now they triple or quadruple it.

Buy used, buy early, buy often...? And if you can't afford Leica, there's VC, Zeiss, old Canon and Nikon, and even judiciously picked Soviet stuff.

--Peter
 

thrice

Active member
I've sold off all my used Leica glass, to buy new. I have ZM's to carry me through the waiting time.
 

GMB

Active member
I've sold off all my used Leica glass, to buy new. I have ZM's to carry me through the waiting time.
Interesting idea. Does of course only work for those lenses that are still available new.

I eventually decided this week to take out insurance for my camera gear. You can insure item-by-item the replacement value, which is for lenses still on the market the list price. Trouble is that if I had to replace my used 50 lux, which I bought used 3 years ago and the had it 6-bit coded, I would have to pay more than the list price (if I want it immidiately). I was also positively "shocked" to see recent prices for items that are no longer made and that I had bought used a few years ago, such as the 75 lux, the 1.0 noctilux or the 28-35-50 tri elmar.

All of this confirms what I allways tell my wife: "I did not buy the stuff, I rent it and will still make a profit if I sell" :ROTFL::ROTFL: Just need to find a 0.95 noct for "rent" now!

What I do not tell is that the same theory does not hold true for the M8 and M8.2.
 

250swb

Member
I know the market pushes prices this way, but at this rate I'm not sure I'll ever be able to justify owning a 'Leica' lens again, especially when there are such good alternatives with Zeiss and Voigtlander.

Your thoughts?
Unless your aim is to pay less than the market price for a new lens the solution would seem to be what everybody else does, order the one you want from a Leica Dealer and get on a list. You will have then undercut the people with deeper pockets!

But its true that second hand prices have also been dragged upwards by the scarcity of some lenses. You wouldn't go far wrong by cherry picking the best of the CV lenses or buying Zeiss ZM. I was recently disappointed to find the Super Elmar had been recalled even before I could get to my Leica Dealer to buy it. But it gave me time to think. I had always loved Zeiss lenses since my Hasselblad and Contax G2 days, and thought instead I would treat myself to the 21mm f2.8 Biogon. And I'm delighted to say it has all the characteristic's I loved in the older ones, half the price of the Super Elmar, and while it may not be as technically perfect as the Elmar perfection is not necessarily what a good lens is about in my book.

And if you see Leica Dealers selling at above list price it could be worth
making them an offer they can't refuse as I think Leica look down on any dealer not playing a fair game.

Steve
 

PeterA

Well-known member
I have regretted selling any Leica M lens I ever sold - because I found myself buying it back - usually new at higher prices. The M8 forced me to add to my collection because of its cropped sensor. I have bought and sold 3 Noctis and still regret selling the last one! :ROTFL: So yeah I will treat myself to a Nocti one day...

As for the used market - there are no silly sellers on this or any other forum - just experts at being nice at all times making long posts of snaps made with a great lens - that surprise surprise a little while later - comes up for a regretful sale because of reason XYZ ...

Leica runs their business as it should be run - make quality stuff which isn't perfect but is a lot better than others don't compete against the CaNikons and don't over produce anything

A few years ago Leica were going broke because they didn't have a digital camera platform - now they aren't. My M8 is still as good as the day I bought it and my M9 is even better - no way will I sell my M8 for example just because other people say it isn't worth a 'zac' - same with lenses.

You know the drill Kristian.

Your Hasselblad is great - it was with some degree of regret I sold my nearly complete system - but then again now I get the pleasure of using an S2 instead and I don't care what all the pixel peepers say - the S2 lenses make everythign else ordinary- and the added bonus is really enjoying people saying it is too expensive and the glass is to expensive.

Better to have less of something you really enjoy - than more of something that is easier to afford no?
 

David K

Workshop Member
Just to put it in perspective, a couple of years back I wasn't too optimistic about Leica's future. Used lenses were selling at a deep discount from the price of new ones and there was no shortage of good used glass around. Thought to myself that Leica had a bad business model.... making top quality lenses that lasted forever... no built in obsolescence, etc. And while I like to support my local bricks and mortar dealer (David F at Dale Labs) I really had a hard time justifying paying double the price of a used lens for a new one. Boy... have things changed since then!! So, in a way, I think it's a good thing that a company that continues it's tradition to build top quality gear irrespective of cost is prospering.

While I don't dispute the right of people to sell their gear for what the market will bear there are many of us who will pass up the opportunity to make a profit in favor of selling a lens to a friend or associate who will use and enjoy it. I do have a different standard for dealers who charge above list price. I think it's wrong and, ultimately, short sighted in that they have sacrificed their reputation for a few extra dollars. I won't do business with such dealers now or in the future.
 

PeterA

Well-known member
Just to put it in perspective, a couple of years back I wasn't too optimistic about Leica's future. Used lenses were selling at a deep discount from the price of new ones and there was no shortage of good used glass around. Thought to myself that Leica had a bad business model.... making top quality lenses that lasted forever... no built in obsolescence, etc. And while I like to support my local bricks and mortar dealer (David F at Dale Labs) I really had a hard time justifying paying double the price of a used lens for a new one. Boy... have things changed since then!! So, in a way, I think it's a good thing that a company that continues it's tradition to build top quality gear irrespective of cost is prospering.

While I don't dispute the right of people to sell their gear for what the market will bear there are many of us who will pass up the opportunity to make a profit in favor of selling a lens to a friend or associate who will use and enjoy it. I do have a different standard for dealers who charge above list price. I think it's wrong and, ultimately, short sighted in that they have sacrificed their reputation for a few extra dollars. I won't do business with such dealers now or in the future.

Amen to all that brother!
 

dude163

Active member
I have had some great luck with people here on Get dpi, the lenses I bought werent mint, but they were close to optically perfect and they were well below ebay prices.

I am really happy I found this forum , friendly members, helpful, and you get critiques, not criticisms , which I believe are different

good to be here!
 

Double Negative

Not Available
The members here at GetDPI are great(!) and I've picked up a lot of gear over the years here. But lately, it has gotten a little out of hand (pricewise). I don't know if it's the influx of new people or someone smelling a quick buck...

But like I said earlier, I won't buy at obviously gouged prices; not from a member, not from a dealer and certainly not from the 'bay. Like David says, I'd be reluctant to deal with such sellers in the future. Feeding the frenzy will only make it worse. Know what things are worth (do your homework) and buy accordingly.
 
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