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On a positive note: Just bought one

R

roberth

Guest
sounds like a good price, I'm still umming and arring about selling mine and replacing it with a Nikon. The downside is that I can then no longer use my R lenses on anything and I have a few. Selling the lot would get me a very nice Nikon kit but is that what I am not sure I want to let go off all the wonderful glass.
thanks for the quick answer.
 

Stuart Richardson

Active member
Either way, wait until Photokina -- you will have a much better idea about where the R system is headed. Either there will be a new R10, or there will not. If not, your DMR will probably be worth more. If so, your R lenses will be worth more, though the DMR will probably go down in price. I will say though, that I went to Nikon, and for what I have been doing with it, the D3 is really a much better camera than the DMR was. The prime lenses can't really compete, though the new Nikon 24-70 and 14-24 are every bit as good as their Leica equivalents (well the 24-70 is...the 14-24 has no equivalent).
 
R

roberth

Guest
I'll do some research and figure out what I get in exchange for selling a DMR, 21-35, 35-70 f4, 70-180, 85, 35 f2, 50 f1.4, 60 macro and a few other bits and pieces.
and maybe Canon will have something by Photokina that I can still strap my R lenses to.
 
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P

pascal_meheut

Guest
I sold mine for $3600 USD in early July.
Someone offered me 2300€ (euros) for mine to be paid in september. This is quite close to 3600 USD.
I just sold my 180/2.8 Apo for 1500 EUR/2200 USD.

So I guess a DMR, 21-35, 35-70 f4, 70-180, 85, 35 f2, 50 f1.4, 60 macro are worth something. Maybe not on EBay but more on Leica users sites.
 

robmac

Well-known member
Therein lies the rub. If there is an R10, your back price will drop but R prices will stabilize. The converse with no R10 (or at least an 'R10' that takes R glass),DMRs will become a collectors item and glass prices will drop.

There is a growing market for alternative glass among Canon users via adapters, but the number of lesser-priced options they have are numerous (Nikon (including G with DIY adapters), OM, CZ, Zeiss ZF, etc, etc, etc) so you can sometimes hold the pricier Leica lenses for some time prior to sale (been there).

Oh - don't even think of asking guys like KEH, etc for a quote on your gear if your heart isn't strong (< $2000 for a clean 180/2 APO at last count). Used dealers just aren't buying (some like Kurland literally) and some appear to be getting an influx of demo or new old stock from Leica instead. FAR better to list privately and take your time. If you're willing to ship (or are located in Europe, prices are better).

Always wanted a 70-180 APO... sigh.
 

Stuart Richardson

Active member
Yes, I sold the DMR, but when I started to think about selling some of the glass, I gave up. Sub 1000 for the 35/1.4? No thanks, I would rather pay a bit and have it converted to Nikon F mount. Same thing with the 100/2.8 and 180/2.8 APO. These lenses are too good to low ball...much better to convert them to a mount that you can use. Or just use them for film!
 

EH21

Member
I guess there is opportunity in uncertainty - but hopefully that period of time will only be a few weeks now. The thing to remember is the leica stuff is like a thinly traded good. I've seen DMRs sell over the last two months in a range of $3400 to $5800. You may have to wait until two buyers want one at the same time! I have no idea how many units or even how many lenses are out there but if demand picks up the surplus dries up quickly. People buy these things just to collect them.
 

fotografz

Well-known member
I've sold all my R gear. The usual choice pieces went almost instantly. I priced them reasonably to move them out. The DMR/9 didn't sell here, but on e-bay went to a fellow in Germany pretty quickly... for $5,200. if I recall correctly.

The R system has been a love-hate relationship for most of my shooting career. :):mad:

Lots to love, but hated not having the option of at least focus confirmation ... and no more DMR firmware improvements was disappointing.

Plus, I have to have a fast AF DSLR with sophisticated flash control for my work, and that turned the R gear into a pure indulgence which at some point became just too expensive. The D3/D700/new AFS lenses with a nice range of Zeiss ZF optics on the side lessened the blow of losing the R gear.

I will still watch Leica in future, and hope they provide you folks with your dream system. :thumbs:
 

Nitnaros

Member
"Indulgence" is a good term in this context.

Leica stuff is priced at the (super-)pro level, but it misses features to live up to that. I have in parallel Canon lenses and body for that reason.

I am not sure whether this situation is a real commercial problem for Leica, since there are still plenty of people like myself who use and enjoy Leica R's and M's for personal work (with the exception of very few pro's using it indeed for pro work).

Now if Leica moves into medium-format, even that "indulgence" customer base will get smaller (some folks on this forum will be an exception, though...). In that case, they would need to move into real pro equipment territory, which will require several major improvements on their end...

Peter
(with a new user name, so please don't get confused; I am the OP of this thread).
 

woodyspedden

New member
Yes, I sold the DMR, but when I started to think about selling some of the glass, I gave up. Sub 1000 for the 35/1.4? No thanks, I would rather pay a bit and have it converted to Nikon F mount. Same thing with the 100/2.8 and 180/2.8 APO. These lenses are too good to low ball...much better to convert them to a mount that you can use. Or just use them for film!
Stuart

Since R lenses are not AF there is little reason to convert them to a different mount (Unless you want to use them on a Nikon body). I used mine with adapters on a 5D for a few years with no problems at all. But I finally got really tired of stop down metering et al. Loved the glass but the pain eventually became too great.

Woody
 

carstenw

Active member
sounds like a great time then to buy Leica glass instead :)
Well, that is my strategy :) My first pick: a 180/2 which is indistinguishable from new, comes with every last bit of the original packaging and accessories, and a 1-year warranty from Leica, for 2500EUR.

Now of course I need a camera for it. I am thinking I will start with an R8 and see where I go from there. Any hints? It will be a while before I could add a DMR, and anyway, I think I would rather wait for the R10, which I am sure will be pre-announced at Photokina. I have an M6 and M8 and a slew of M lenses already, so I just need the SLR specialties, ie. long teles, macro and perhaps a PC lens, and maybe my all-time favorite lens, the 80 Lux.

Guy, I recall you saying that the 1.4X teleconverter was great, but the 2x merely good. Am I remembering correctly?
 

Stuart Richardson

Active member
The 2x APO is still very good. If you need the extra reach, it works admirably well. The 2x non-apo is another story.

By the way, 2500 euro for the 180/2 seems like quite a deal.
 

PSon

Active member
Guy,

I think you've gotten too caught up in this MFD thing and have forgotten all your old Leica tricks. :ROTFL:

The 50 lux-R and the 50 lux-M ASPH are distant third cousins, not twins. The 50 lux ASPH for M is the first major redesign of a 50mm in 50 years, taking head optics designer Peter Karbe over 10 years to perfect. The current 50 lux for R is quite a few years old, and while a very solid performer is nowhere near the newer ASPH M lens with floating element.

The 50 crons, on the other hand, are much more similiar, as are the 90 APOs.

David
The current Leica R 50 Lux has no ASPH but has floating element which is similar to the Leica M 50 Lux previous generation. The current Leica M 50 Lux has both floating element and ASPH.
 

doug

Well-known member
Well, that is my strategy :) My first pick: a 180/2 which is indistinguishable from new, comes with every last bit of the original packaging and accessories, and a 1-year warranty from Leica, for 2500EUR.

Now of course I need a camera for it. I am thinking I will start with an R8 and see where I go from there. Any hints? It will be a while before I could add a DMR, and anyway, I think I would rather wait for the R10, which I am sure will be pre-announced at Photokina. I have an M6 and M8 and a slew of M lenses already, so I just need the SLR specialties, ie. long teles, macro and perhaps a PC lens, and maybe my all-time favorite lens, the 80 Lux.

Guy, I recall you saying that the 1.4X teleconverter was great, but the 2x merely good. Am I remembering correctly?
I think you ought to wait for Photokina to make a body decision. If the R10 fulfills our expectations I think you'll see more R8 or R9 with DMR on the market. I doubt you'll see many DMR backs by themselves.

Since you don't have any R lenses that require the R bodies' mirror clearance, what about an SL with a modification to use ROM lenses? It's a very simple modification to the lens and the body that maintains all the original function of both. The modifications are trimming the inside diameter of the SL's flange to accept R-only lenses, a slight trim (might not be necessary) of the lens lock pin, and adding the second cam to the lens. Or omit the second cam and use stop-down metering.

Regarding APO extenders, my experience is that the 1.4x hardly changes optical performance at all, or if it does the 280 APO + extender still out-resolves the DMR. The 2x APO will cause a slight drop in performance, noticeable if you're a pixel-peeper or if you have to crop the photo much.
 

carstenw

Active member
Thanks for the info, Doug. I actually looked at both an SL and an SL2, specifically because of your comments in the past, but they are actually significantly more expensive than an R8 (!), so adding in their inability to accept a DMR and the fact that I am not planning to shoot so much film, and I think I won't do that this time.

It will be after Photokina before I pick up the lens anyway (it has been set aside for me while I save up the rest), so I will know what Leica has announced before having to choose a camera. I don't expect the announcement of the R10, however. I expect to hear the announcement of the new S2 system, or whatever it will be called (AFRika), and to hear the plans for the R system, but nothing more concrete than that.

In fact, I do quite like the R8. It feels very good with the 180/2, whereas earlier cameras I tried felt a little out place, with the wrong sort of handhold to manage that rather chunky lens.

There is another short-term option, however, with both positive and negative aspects: pick up a used 5D. Benefit: full-frame right now, and digital until the R10 is ready. Downside: no possibility of a later upgrade to DMR, and stop-down metering. The jury is still out on that one, but used 5Ds already costs only around 1000-1100 EUR, and today's announcement of the 5D2 ought to push that down a tad more. I am no Canon fan by any means, but that might be the best option for the next few months...
 
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