S2 ... It IS a Medium Format Machine!

[fotografz]

All of the stuff about the S2 being an "inbetweener" is fast becoming disproved IMO and direct experience.

This camera and its lens system punches well beyond it's class, and is every bit able to run with the big dogs of the MFD world. Stats would seem to indicate otherwise, but real world use is the real test, and I've now used this system and a bunch of different MFD rigs long enough to make a few observations.

Not only has the S2 taken over a LOT of the 35mm DSLR duties and spoiled me against using any 35mm kit, it has relentlessly crept into applications I'd normally use my H4D/60 for. More so than I ever thought would be viable. I recently did a studio shoot and used both cameras about evenly, sometimes swapping from one to the other for the same set-up. Frankly, I was hard pressed to distinguish the IQ between them, and if not for the different ratios, would have had to check the exif info to tell them apart. I'd have to be making ginormous prints to see any real difference ... or cropping a ridiculous amount.

Frankly, I'm not only pleasantly pleased by this, I'm quite surprised .

Also, for my applications, I do not find the lens spread to be limiting at all. I haven't run into any shoot where I was lamenting the lack of something wider or longer ... at least not yet. However, I do wish Leica would get the Leaf Shutter versions out soon.

Here are a few applications of S2 shots done for a project (I made the S2 poster for myself as a side line ).

All shot in the studio using a Profoto D4-2400 and either a Mola Beemm Beauty dish, or a Profoto 6' Strip light with a 4" strip modifier mounted on an overhead boom arm. This was a fast paced shoot as the bodybuilder could only pop the muscles for a brief time, and I had to move quickly for each set-up ... which I found the S2 to be more agile at doing than the H4D/60.

-Marc

 

[weinschela]

Beautiful work. The S2 is an object of lust for me.

 

[KurtKamka]

Love it, Marc. I need a framed poster.

 

[pophoto]

Hi Marc,
It is beautiful and thank you for sharing more about your S2P and use. Could you tell us how well, or how it's been shooting with these strobes as far as shooting speeds go, I know shooting indoors and currently without the CS lenses might not have called for HSS, but perhaps you have experienced some. Were you using to PW to fire your strobes?

Thanks,
Po

 

[baudolino]

Marc, I am considering the S2 while I am in the process of selling my Hy6 system. My concern - and a question to you and other users here - is that it is after all and despite its good ergonomics an MF camera with all the associated operational limitations (i.e. need to shoot handheld at 1/250s at least, with f5.6-8 to get images without blur and with acceptable DoF). I've been using an M9 a lot and really like the results and the quick, opportunistic & experimentation style of work that it facilitates. And I fear I would be tempted to use the S2 the same way as the M9 and would be disappointed with the results, for the above reasons. So, in your experience, is the S2 really a machine that needs to be used with strobes or other in conditions with plenty of light or can it pretend to be a bigger M9?

Note: you may ask why I am considering the S2 when the M9 does for me what I want. Put simply, there are enough situations in my photography where I benefit from the better IQ (e.g. landscape, citiscape), the problem being that if I travel just with the Hy6 system, it excels in considered/tripod mounted situations and it just fails badly when I try to use it handheld for the quick shots. So I am thinking, given its better ergonomics, is the S2 better at being the only camera one takes for a month long trip to a far away destination, for instance? I suspect the answer may well be that I should forget about the S2 and use the M9, and if it is that, then so be it and at least I've saved a lot of cash

 

[dfarkas]

Marc, I am considering the S2 while I am in the process of selling my Hy6 system. My concern - and a question to you and other users here - is that it is after all and despite its good ergonomics an MF camera with all the associated operational limitations (i.e. need to shoot handheld at 1/250s at least, with f5.6-8 to get images without blur and with acceptable DoF).

Last week I was at Frank Lloyd Wright's Fallingwater. Being there with the LHSA, we were granted permission to shoot inside the house, but with no tripods or other supports and time was limited. I've posted some of the images with full shooting data here:

Shooting the Leica S2 in Frank Lloyd Wright's Fallingwater

Here's another example of using the S2 casually on vacation with my family:

Leica S2 as a vacation point and shoot


To answer your question, yes, the S2 can be used in non-typical medium format scenarios. No, you do not studio lighting to extract all of its qualities. Good lighting and a tripod will almost always make for sharper pictures with more DOF and a higher degree of technical perfection. Those circumstances aren't always available.

The S2 with it's large mirror and slower f/2.5 lenses will never be the low light, hand-held tool that the M9 is. Being able to shoot at 1/15th @ f/1.4 is the the domain of the M. But, you'll find that working within its limitations (not as stringent as you've outlined above), the S2 will reward you with some breathtaking results. And, you'll find yourself in the same position as me and others who have both the M9 and the S2.... the S2 will get far more use than the M9.

David

 

[baudolino]

Thanks David, that's what I was hoping to hear

 

[fotografz]

Hi Marc,
It is beautiful and thank you for sharing more about your S2P and use. Could you tell us how well, or how it's been shooting with these strobes as far as shooting speeds go, I know shooting indoors and currently without the CS lenses might not have called for HSS, but perhaps you have experienced some. Were you using to PW to fire your strobes?

Thanks,
Po

Hi Po, actually, when shooting in the studio the need for a higher shutter speed sync is less of an issue than when shooting outdoors where CS lenses can be a bit more helpful.

In the studio, like my shots posted above, all ambient light is suppressed or is so low as to not be a factor compared to the amount of light from the strobes. What determines the crisp rendering of the subject is the duration of the flash itself, not the shutter speed. Various strobe systems produce different durations and the lower the strobe level is set, the faster the duration is. Fashion shooters sometimes use high speed duration flash systems to freeze a moving model, but for most subjects in the studio 1/125th is fine. If it is very dark in the studio area, almost any shutter speed is okay.

When they shoot images of a bullet bursting a balloon filled with water, it is the high speed flash duration doing the freezing, not a shutter speed. In fact, the camera shutter is left open on those shots in a pitch dark room and only the flash does the work (fired by a high speed sound trigger or infered beam).

Outdoors, a leaf shutter is helpful because you can set the shutter to 1/500th instead of 1/125th ... which allows you to meter for the ambient light and use a wider aperture if you wish, even in brighter conditions ... but still use a strobe for directional light.

-Marc

 

[PeterA]

Nice shots Marc.

 

[fotografz]

Marc, I am considering the S2 while I am in the process of selling my Hy6 system. My concern - and a question to you and other users here - is that it is after all and despite its good ergonomics an MF camera with all the associated operational limitations (i.e. need to shoot handheld at 1/250s at least, with f5.6-8 to get images without blur and with acceptable DoF). I've been using an M9 a lot and really like the results and the quick, opportunistic & experimentation style of work that it facilitates. And I fear I would be tempted to use the S2 the same way as the M9 and would be disappointed with the results, for the above reasons. So, in your experience, is the S2 really a machine that needs to be used with strobes or other in conditions with plenty of light or can it pretend to be a bigger M9?

Note: you may ask why I am considering the S2 when the M9 does for me what I want. Put simply, there are enough situations in my photography where I benefit from the better IQ (e.g. landscape, citiscape), the problem being that if I travel just with the Hy6 system, it excels in considered/tripod mounted situations and it just fails badly when I try to use it handheld for the quick shots. So I am thinking, given its better ergonomics, is the S2 better at being the only camera one takes for a month long trip to a far away destination, for instance? I suspect the answer may well be that I should forget about the S2 and use the M9, and if it is that, then so be it and at least I've saved a lot of cash

These are good questions, and it really depends on what your end objective may be. I also use a M9 as well as a S2 and a H4D/60.

The S2 does need attention to DOF and shutter speed when shooting hand-held, but I am of the school where content is king, and I go for it even if pushing the boundaries of what the S2 can actually do. Basically, I can get away with cheating fate for one reason ... the files are twice as big as the M9s so I don't need to enlarge as much ... slight errors in technique don't show up as much when printed. At 100% pixel peeping they do, but I don't care about internet pixel peeping exercises, I make prints and that is what counts. Heck, I've even made stupid mistakes with the S2 and in the heat of the moment didn't pay attention to the shutter speed and still pulled decent prints (as long as they aren't to big of a print )

-Marc

 

[pophoto]

Awesome Marc! Thanks for the detailed explanations.

 

[ptomsu]

Really like tho photos! Really like the S2 although I do not own one!

Really do not understand why it has to be mentioned again and again that the S2 is a Medium Format Machine - consider it as what you want it does not change how great it performs!

 

[fotografz]

Really like tho photos! Really like the S2 although I do not own one!

Really do not understand why it has to be mentioned again and again that the S2 is a Medium Format Machine - consider it as what you want it does not change how great it performs!

While true enough, it is often referred to as an "In-Betweener", not 35mm and not a true MFD ... which my own practical experience is now disproving to a greater degree then I first expected. That's all.

But you are right, take it for what it is and how it fits your specific applications ... or don't, if it doesn't.

-Marc

 

[ptomsu]

While true enough, it is often referred to as an "In-Betweener", not 35mm and not a true MFD ... which my own practical experience is now disproving to a greater degree then I first expected. That's all.

But you are right, take it for what it is and how it fits your specific applications ... or don't, if it doesn't.

-Marc

The S2 could easily be kind of my all in one MF and FF DSLR, if it had more lens options today (and I would win in the lottery ) ....

But seriously, I consider the S system as the leading MF system when it comes to rugged design, ease of handling, best optical quality and of course highest IQ.

And I could not care less if it is MF in someone's eyes or not. As I no longer care if for example any other camera or system is great in one's eye or not - it all depends on individual (my individual) needs and lust for a system.

Peter

 

[Paratom]

The S2 could easily be kind of my all in one MF and FF DSLR, if it had more lens options today (and I would win in the lottery ) ....

But seriously, I consider the S system as the leading MF system when it comes to rugged design, ease of handling, best optical quality and of course highest IQ.

And I could not care less if it is MF in someone's eyes or not. As I no longer care if for example any other camera or system is great in one's eye or not - it all depends on individual (my individual) needs and lust for a system.

Peter

Hi Peter,
I (and my bank account) are really glad there are NOT more lens options for the S2
Honestly there are quite some things one can do with those 4 lenses, specially keeping in mind that the 120 works very well as Macro lens but also renders in a way that one can use it ver well as a portrait lens.

 

[Paratom]

Marc, I am considering the S2 while I am in the process of selling my Hy6 system. My concern - and a question to you and other users here - is that it is after all and despite its good ergonomics an MF camera with all the associated operational limitations (i.e. need to shoot handheld at 1/250s at least, with f5.6-8 to get images without blur and with acceptable DoF). I've been using an M9 a lot and really like the results and the quick, opportunistic & experimentation style of work that it facilitates. And I fear I would be tempted to use the S2 the same way as the M9 and would be disappointed with the results, for the above reasons. So, in your experience, is the S2 really a machine that needs to be used with strobes or other in conditions with plenty of light or can it pretend to be a bigger M9?
...

I would say if you do like shallow DOF the S2 works fine handheld. For me ISO 640 works great, I often set auto iso limited to 640ISO and 1/250 and that does a good job.

However with the 35 and 70mm lens I have handheld images at 1/30 in some cases which are still acceptable. The mirror is very well damped.
(However I have also handhold images at relativly long exposres with the Hy6 and the Sinar 75LV+110/2.0 at ISO800). So I think the low light capability of the S2 is not that much different. But the camera handles much faster, you get instant good feedback (image display and good histogramm), the lenses are fast, etc.

Of course the M9 offers a different level for low light photography. (But then how often do we shoot in such light?)
Sometimes when I carry the S2 I put also an x1 in the bag, just in case...
If I went on a week cpecial trip and would expect low light photography I would at least additionally bring something else besdies the S2, maybe the x1 or a Nex or a M9 with a 35/1.4...

Here one form using the S2 as a casual Sunday afternoon family walk (just yesterday):

 

[jonoslack]

This camera and its lens system punches well beyond it's class, and is every bit able to run with the big dogs of the MFD world. Stats would seem to indicate otherwise, but real world use is the real test, and I've now used this system and a bunch of different MFD rigs long enough to make a few observations.

Shhhhhhhhhhhh (nice shots though)

 

[Shashin]

...with all the associated operational limitations (i.e. need to shoot handheld at 1/250s at least, with f5.6-8 to get images without blur and with acceptable DoF)...

Those are just myths. It is no harder to use MFD than other cameras. While not an S2, I use a Pentax 645D handheld all the time. I shoot down to 1/8s and at ISO 1600 and I have found the DoF wide open easy to use. And why a 40MP Pentax , Phase, or Hasselblad is a medium-format camera, but an S2 is not is another mystery--the sensors are basically the same size. And the folks that poo-poo those sensors as crop sensors, that is just snobbery--645 was always considered the "baby" medium format, so why don't they have a "real" format like 6x7. Besides, there is no such thing as a crop sensor.

 

[David Schneider]

Those are just myths. It is no harder to use MFD than other cameras. While not an S2, I use a Pentax 645D handheld all the time. I shoot down to 1/8s and at ISO 1600 and I have found the DoF wide open easy to use.

As a full time professional and portrait studio owner, I would disagree. There are obvious limitations that make mfd the wrong tool to use for many, many applications, and I'd say 1/8s, handheld, wide open at iso 1600 is one of them. I can't imagine a client paying me for the results from doing that.

 

[Shashin]

As a full time professional and portrait studio owner, I would disagree. There are obvious limitations that make mfd the wrong tool to use for many, many applications, and I'd say 1/8s, handheld, wide open at iso 1600 is one of them. I can't imagine a client paying me for the results from doing that.

I guess there is only one type of "professional" photography. It is a pity documentary photographers are not "professional." And certainly we cannot use MFD for simply a hobby. Gee, I never knew I could not use my camera like I have been using it.:loco:

I love GetDPI. You are the third member to imply I am not professional. I get my work published. I get my work exhibited. My clients like my work. But because I don't use cameras in a way others deem to be "correct," I must not actually have a real career in photography? But why share experiences? Maybe Guy could simply post the ten steps of what "professionals" do and we could just refer to that if we have questions. It would certainly lighten the traffic around here and we wouldn't have to bother to post.

Peace friend. I am just always coming up against the commercial photographers in the neighborhood. You do your thing and may you proper by it. I will do the same.