Their continuing reluctance to say anything informative about an R10 is getting to the point of silly. How many times do they expect R owners to have to hear 'it's coming..." as the big DSLR players keep raising the bar (sensor/$$ wise) before they throw in the towel? Odd.
Last edited by robmac; 22nd September 2008 at 12:02.
Just got the official images on my flickr album. Here is the link to the set:
Let's not forget that the DMR was announced well over a year before it made it to the table. I think I received Tony Rose's second copy, and it took over a year between the time I put the deposit on it and the time I received it. These pictures look more like they are from a drafting program, not an actual copy of the camera. The DMR was released in the same way -- the first pictures were different than the finished DMR that made it to the public.
Just don't get your hopes up to have it in your hands soon!
Looks like a wait I agree. At least as far as the info today
Well, there was an article in the BJP (link from somebody on the LL forum) that says there is a working prototype at Photokina, that Summer 2009 is target release, that this is the first of several offerings in this "system", targeted first to the pro shooters, and the body will be selling at 20k euros. So the $18k "U.S. kit" price sounded way better, and there are still lots of months till release. Looks like Phase is shepherding most of the work for this camera, and handling the image management side of things for Leica also.
If it delivers on time and to the outlined specs in these articles, it could become a serious player to consider. That would be more the case if Leica can get the price down a bit more to make this more of a "must have" type camera. Still looks very interesting. Will keep watching it, and hoping the price comes more in line.
Notice the CS on the back of the camera. Also has FPS too.
Cropped sensor????????????? . Not a word about that yet
On the shot with the LCD illuminated it looks like you can also chose whether or not you want to shoot at full resolution. I sent the link to the BJP article for posting. I can't from my iPhone (LOL)
I am guessing that CS and FPS are "central shutter" and "focal plane shutter" -- the press release said there will be both focal plane and leaf shutter options -- the 70mm lens says "CS" as well, so I assume that means that it is leaf shutter. I would guess this will work like the Hasselblad 200 series where you can choose whether you want to use the lens or body shutter.
P.S. -- It has auto ISO as well (sensitivity is set to auto).
Is the shutter release painted on?
I am not a painter, nor an artist. Therefore I can see straight, and that may be my undoing. - Alfred Stieglitz
Sexy pictures The 4-button interface on the back looks very Phase One. the upper LCD on the camera body is multi-color. I wish they had gone with two control dials. I'm guessing A-mode works like the M8 - 1/2 press the shutter and use rear dial. I'm not seeing a button to enable focus point selection, so this looks like simple, single center AF point. Not so happy about that. It have been have a huge viewfinder with excellent magnification and brightness to offset for the lack of a multi-point AF system. A multi-point AF system would be one are where Leica could upstage the competition.
Interesting in that the S2 will only be distributed through Phase dealers - nothing like making existing dealers happy. Cost of the relationship.
Lance (Edit: Chris L) has a posting on LL indicating same. Also info on CI site.
Now if they made the new mount Phamiya-compatible (says no, but would be cool).
Last edited by robmac; 22nd September 2008 at 13:33.
I think a great idea actually. The support from Phase One is awesome and there service even better. Now I am starting to get out of my seat. Lunch first though. LOL
How do you focus through a leaf shutter lens? I am assuming that the focal plane shutter is closed and the leaf shutter is opened for focusing and aperture adjustments then closes down, the FPS opens and the CS clicks the image? Sounds like an unnecessary juggling act. What is the advantage to be gained by this?
Just like through any other lens -- it works just like the aperture iris. It worked perfectly well for the Hasselblad 200 series. Focusing through a leaf shutter works fine for Hasselblad (V and H series), Rollei 6000 series, bronica and every large format lens. The way it works when there is a body shutter is well is as follows: the aperture stops down, the body shutter opens, the leaf shutter closes after the proper time, the body shutter closes and the leaf shutter and aperture opens again. The advantage is that you can have flash sync at all speeds, as well as fast body shutter speeds (1/4000th in this case). The best of both worlds. It will also allow you to build super-high speed lenses that are otherwise very difficult to make with leaf shutters -- stuff like the 110/2, 50mm f/2.8, 80mm f/2 and so on. These lenses can be made with leaf shutters, but it adds a great deal to their complexity and bulk.
I GUESS there would be three ways:
1. Set to CS locks open FP shutter, mirror seals out light while focusing with CS shutter open. Hit release, CS shutter shuts, mirror flips up, CS shutter opens and closes, mirror returns, CS shutter opens.
This would require some battery drain (holding open FPS shutter) and some serious light management around mirror.
2. Some heavy-duty electronic syncing between CS and FPShutters giving one priority over the other to accomplish #1 above w/o locking open FPS for any longer than need be.
3. Derivative of #1 where CS retracts FPS out of light path san battery drain - a flip-flop style latching device that doesn't need power to hold FPS aside.
I suspect #2
• Phase One and Leica Form Strategic Alliance
The just-announced medium-format Leica S2 will feature sensor, software, and firmware developed by the experienced engineers of Phase One and will be distributed exclusively through Phase One channels. This promises the quality and sophistication of Leica with the engineering prowess and medium-format experience of Phase One. Plus distribution.
This is a brilliant move. Phase one is so experienced in this , they will have a winner just by this alone
BINGO and exactly what i am thinking and know from my experience with Phase One. This is huge and exactly throws that service issue out the door.
I don't think Leica is trying to get Medium Format users to "switch" to the S system (although they would be happy if some did) but rather they see it as a more compact unit that that pros would have in addition to the MF gear when they want to use a system that is maybe a little smaller and have more of the DSLR functionality and not give up any resolution or image quality.
if it is truly faster overall that will make a lot of MF users actually add this to there system, now if there is a way to have lenses compatible between leica and Phase on this . Truly makes it even more appealing. For someone like me all i would add is the body for speed. Let's wait till all the announcements but maybe a chance at this also.
Guy - I may need to borrow your handcuffs!!!!!
If it takes until summer of 2009 to hit the streets then perhaps the R10 will also be developed by then and we will have two options.
I think I will buy a extra pair with the Phase One stuff i just got really excited. For M8 and DMR fans i can't tell you how good this really is overall.
I'm looking forward to the S2 Bible - I know you can do it Guy!
I'm up for it.
i wonder if this is a cut down version of the P45 Plus sensor or something new.
It's funny (in a sad sort of way) how the Phase 'under the hood' and distribution suddenly brightened things up.... ;>
Do not be too sure that this S2 could not steal a lot of MF interest. Think about it.....a camera more or less geared for more speed and handling in fashion and commercial shooting.....that covers an awful lot of the turf for many MF users. Having both CS/FPS shutters is a big plus.
Seriously, why would you only consider this as an add to your present stuff? I would think this S2 could effectively replace the majority of your shooting needs. I would think about that aspect, once we see more specs, images, etc. Why bother with the Mamiya glass at all if there is lighter, possibly better Leica glass to cart around? With the exception of those really wanting/needing the 50+MP backs for certain applications, 37.5 MP seems more than capable of delivering a lot of what most MF shooters use anyway.
This is getting more interesting the more one starts to think about possibilities. For example, I could see dumping all my Canon gear, save the 400mm f2.8L IS lens, add a 50D body to do the faster sport stuff, and take the S2 for essentially everything else I would be shooting. Cut the M8 down to three lenses or so purely for travel and fun, and pretty much use the S2 for almost everything. That is looking more like a solution I would enjoy.
Believe me not overlooking that either. I could use more speed. Just don't want to downgrade in anyway than what i have so we have to see all the specs and see where I sit overall. My 22mpx back may not have a chance against this but it sure is sweet today and can get real close to the P45 Plus. So it maybe marginally difference but if this has the speed i am after it would be a serious consideration. leica lenses will not be lighter in any way shape or form over the mamiya and they actually maybe a lot bigger 82mm filter size on the 70mm . The most i am is 77mm on a wide angle no less. We have to see what these lenses are going to be. Don't get your hopes up for lighter in anyway. leica does not do light weight
From the Press release:
"The optic calculation incorporates all
the factors and requirements of digital technology, meaning that software to correct image
artifacts becomes superfluous. "
In other words, they are calling the Hasselblad lenses that do this crap
Kidding aside....and not putting down any other glass and stuff out there. If Leica can deliver on this, they may have a strong following. I like that Phase will be handling most of the stuff that Leica has messed up before. I am still chafing a bit at the overall costs and unknowns, but for the next several months there should be plenty of time to see how things may work out and what kinds of kit one could assemble to cover most needs. This may actually turn out to be something worth waiting for.
That does sound like they're doing the Bronx cheer Hassy's way...
The Hasselblad H3DII system is so close to this concept - more or less the camera and back are mated at birth never really intended to be separated. I keep expecting Hasselbald to announce something along the lines of the S2, but in Hasselblad dress. I'm surprised Leica got here first.
Good point John.
Lets see if i can get all of this in one page.
Page 1 of 3 Reproduction free of charge, courtesy copy requested
September 2008 / Nr. 46e/08
Embargo Date: September 23, 2008
A new dimension for professionals
LEICA S2 – Radical new digital SLR camera system from Leica
Responding to the commercial needs of professional photographers, Leica Camera AG in
Solms will introduce the Leica S2 at photokina in Cologne (23rd-28th September 2008), a new
digital Leica SLR camera system for professional photographers. A new system concept has
been developed, entitled “Made in Solms”. For this camera concept, renowned professional
photographers have been involved in all parts of the development process. The outcome is a
system designed specifically to deliver the fastest, high end resolution work, requiring the
minimum of post production. Excellent news for commercial photographers seeking to
exceed demanding client expectations in a working time which allows improved income for
Designed from scratch the new German made camera is ground breaking, as unlike most
other pro digital systems, it does not use a conventional medium format or 35mm plateform.
The LEICA S2 has a sensor size that exceeds the 35 mm format and incorporates many of the
advantages of professional systems. The new 37 mega pixels CCD sensor with a breathtaking
image resolution will produce images at the top of the professional game for a number of
years. In particular, the lenses set new performance benchmarks enabling the sensor to
overdeliver per pixel. The pixels are distributed on a sensor 56% larger than full size 35mm.
The compact design and handy metal body is smaller than those of comparative products
from different manufacturers. Ergonomic and a pleasure to use, the camera is set to become
a professional photographer´s favourite. The camera´s bespoke sensor has enabled the
Leica designers to produce the smallest camera in its class.
Page 2 and 3
Page 2 of 3 Reproduction free of charge, courtesy copy requested
It´s super modern new and innovative processing technology is twice as quick. The Leica
“MAESTRO” image processor developed with Fujitsu specifically for the LEICA S2, allows the
camera´s lenses, firmware and sensor to function at their optimum. It produces market
leading processing time and the highest level of picture quality with minimal energy output. It
enables picture quality and super quick transfer time with minimal energy output.
In spite of the sensor size, the extremely compact body is fully protected against dust and
splashes. For this class of camera, the LEICA S2 has a particularly precise and quick
autofocus system that makes focusing easier. The large, bright viewfinder makes picture
composition easy. Taking many pictures in quick succession is also possible, and there is a
high sensitivity setting to use when lighting is problematic.
New lenses designed specially to suit the demands of this format offer unrivalled imaging
quality and set new benchmarks for the camera market as a whole. Thus the LEICA S2 lens
system meets the needs of professional photographers. The optic calculation incorporates all
the factors and requirements of digital technology, meaning that software to correct image
artifacts becomes superfluous.
The constant high image quality is present right into the corners of the images, from close up
to infinity. Even at wide apertures, maximal contrast, high resolution and detailed colour
reproduction are guaranteed. The between-the-lens shutters in some of the system lenses
enable lightning fast synchronisation for the quickest possible exposure time. The quick and
precise autofocus of the Leica S lenses can be adjusted manually at any time. Like the
camera, the lenses are made from metal and come with a weatherproof seal. The lenses are
thus particularly robust and protected from dust and dampness.
The LEICA S2 is particularly easy to handle and choosing the settings is pretty much intuitive.
Ergonomically designed, the body sits comfortably in the hand whether in vertical or
horizontal position. The bright, high-resolution display with quick zoom-in function enables
Page 3 of 3 Reproduction free of charge, courtesy copy requested
exposures to be seen perfectly even in daylight. The camera concept can be integrated
seamlessly into the professional digital workflow.
With Dr. Andreas Kaufmann as its main shareholder, Leica Camera AG is entering a new era.
Following in-depth and successful re-structuring, the business can now concentrate on
investing in new products. Leica has made a quantum leap in the field of digital technology,
enabling it to combine the advantages of highly developed digital technology with the classic
Leica values concerning optics, mechanics and optimal image results. The result of this is
uncompromising cutting-edge technology; the LEICA S2 is the first to offer all these things to
professional digital photographers. The LEICA S system sets the trend for future Leica
products in terms of technology and leads the way for future product ideas from Leica
Contact partners for editorial staff:
Sandra Looke / tel. (direct) ext. 404 / fax (direct) ext. 455 / [email protected]
Michael Agel / tel. (direct) ext. 406 / fax (direct) ext. 455 / [email protected]
Ralph Hagenauer/ tel. (direct) ext. 152 / fax (direct) ext. 455 / [email protected]
What I take out of all of this is that Phase is everywhere! They have their alliance with Mamiya and now a ready for market (Hopefully) product from Leica. I applaud Phase for really reaching out to a wider technology market (and partners) and becoming the de facto leader in the MFDB world. The only place they haven't and will not be able to reach is into the proprietary Hasselblad world.
This MFDB market is going to get really interesting!!
Interesting that of all the images of the new system (one which I know I will love) there is none of the back of the camera. I hope that doesn't mean there is a small LCD display instead of a world class one a la the Nikon 900,000 pixel unit.
Wow... extremely interesting read in the Leica S2 pages. & Thanks to Guy for posting it here. It is going to be an amazing system.... need to look at the pricing...
I also noticed the DMR is not mentioned in the R system pages. Does this mean that the DMR had a quiet death? ... and R system will soon to follow? Speculation or is teh writing on the wall?
Yup, Phamiya and now Phaleica. Looks like they're pulling with both oars in the water. Gives Phase additional fab utilization, a different form factor yet still MF, access to Leica optic tech (and diversification of glass) and some negotiating strength with Mamiya in case the latter gets difficult at any juncture moving fwd.
If they can ever get the Mamiya and Leica glass folks to shake hands across the table, thing could get very interesting for Phase shooters.
My gut? Time will show that the S WILL BE/IS the new R
In the Leica presentation today, they mentioned the R system is alive and well, building on the S system technology. An autofocus R10 and some cheaper R alternatives will be announced sometime in the future.
Rob - I read that as well, but putting my wager in early that come 1-2 years from now we'll all wonder when the R line was allowed to die (press release promises, for what they're ever worth, aside). Call it a gut feeling.
"In the Leica presentation today, they mentioned the R system is alive and well with a R10 and some cheaper R alternatives in the future.[/QUOTE]"
Here is a link to the article where Leica says they will be announcing a R10 soon.