Leica S Leak

[dfarkas]

I had about an hour hands-on with the S2 today and got a lot of questions answered. I am currently working on my blog post, but thought I'd pop in and clear something up.

There is absolutely no chance of an R lens adapter for the S2. I spoke to both product managers and it just isn't happening. The R10 will follow the S2 by a few months and they feel this is a much better solution. R lenses for R system, S lenses for S system.

Gotta run.

David

 

[robmac]

You may also want to also check out David's expanded comments in the Phase One New thread in the MF forum re: Phase involvement in the S2 program. Not so good.

 

[dfarkas]

You may also want to also check out David's expanded comments in the Phase One New thread in the MF forum re: Phase involvement in the S2 program. Not so good.

Rob,

How is it not good that Leica has the competency to create their own product in house (quickly, too) and sell it through their existing dealer network?

In one year's time Leica created an entire camera system (that actually works) and changes the nature of the game. Small, easy to use MFD with amazing lenses aimed at pros.

So, I guess I'm not understanding why this is a bad thing....

David

 

[robmac]

David,

No 'smack' against you or any other Leica dealer, it's just that myself and many others had considered the implied/mistaken depth of Phase involvement (at least so far) as:

1. An advantage in helping Leica more easily overcome the shadow of their infamously slow S&S structure - a great concern for any existing pro user looking at switching to the S2 from _____>

Your shop and many others will be more than willing and able to meet or exceed those client expectations, but I know many, many others, used to selling boxes, will not be.

2. An advantage in overcoming the specter of the M8s teething problems when first released within the minds of prospective pro MFDB customers. Partnering at a technology level with a proven MFDB market leader to the depth that was mistakenly implied/understood would have been a real feather in Leica's cap as a new entrant.

In short, the more depth to the Phase involvement in the S2 program, the greater the ease with which the S2 could have made a rapid penetration into it's indicated target market.

In a nutshell, the greater the benefit of the doubt many pros would have given the S2. Now, more than ever it will be a matter of 'show me'.

 

[EH21]

Also no personal knock but my experience is that no leica dealer ever called me just to check in how my DMR was working or if I needed any help or anything. No leica dealer has ever given me their cell phone number with cart blanc to call anytime of day or night if I needed help like I've gotten from several Phase representatives.

To me Phase represents service in a way that Leica never has.

When I phoned and e-mailed to Leica Service about my R body camera that was in for service the response came sometimes but not every time and usually after some days. It took Leica literally months to repair my R8. My experience with the long wait is echoed by many many posts from other M and R shooters. As a counter example I had a problem with a canon lens, which was repaired and back in my hands in 4 days from the day I shipped it and I shipped it ground so they had to have repaired it the same day. I've also gotten my Rollei camera serviced the same day it arrived and back in my hands fast!

The service from Leica is not on the level where I would consider buying a S2 without the help from some other organization that understands service.

This is an element that all MFDB organizations know and understand, and something Leica simply does not get if you look at the M experience. Some pro's that shoot M's are taking 2 back up bodies with them - okay they feel the need for 2 backups on a $4k body but who is going to do that with a $20k camera? And does anyone think there won't be some troubleshooting with the new system? New camera, new bodies, new software? Leica needs to step up and speak to the service issues of the past and reassure potential buyers.

Eric

Rob,

How is it not good that Leica has the competency to create their own product in house (quickly, too) and sell it through their existing dealer network?

In one year's time Leica created an entire camera system (that actually works) and changes the nature of the game. Small, easy to use MFD with amazing lenses aimed at pros.

So, I guess I'm not understanding why this is a bad thing....

David

 

[Guy Mancuso]

I put a sock in my mouth. :banghead:

 

[ptomsu]

Honestly the more Phase One is involved in this product the more pro's will become more interested. I hope Leica realizes that point. If this system for me is within my specs that i need than a trade in program is going to make me swing my vote for it. This is very important to existing MF shooters. No one is going to take a bath on selling there gear for it.

Without a trade in program the S2 will be dead from beginning.

I already wonder why thy did not build a removable back, like other MF vendors. And do not tell me this would not have been possible in the same size, because it would almost have been possible and increased this still large body only slightly. But give the option to reuse the cam and just exchange the sensor and processor say every 2 years.

 

[Guy Mancuso]

Honestly a MF back is not that big.

 

[dfarkas]

Still working on my blog post..... just poking in...

Digital backs are thicker front to back than the S2 from LCD to lens mount. So, the camrea would have been much larger.

The processing speed was actually very impressive, much quicker than the M8 with files almost four times larger. The Maestro does its thing in near-real-time, and with alpha firmware at that. How much faster can real-time get?

The screen is much, much nicer than is available from any MF back. It uses focal plane and leaf shutter lenses. It handles like a 35mm. Do you need more than 37.5 MP? Perhaps the concept of digital backs will be viewed as yesterday's thinking.

When you look at the idea of keeping the camera, that is the absolute least expensive portion of a MFD system. I think the major expense is the digital and optical portions. Almost forgot, the S2 is completely weather sealed. The connection where the back meets the body is a weak point in MFD systems, especially for water. According to my friends at Leica, you can shoot in the rain with this camera, no problem.

Anyway, that's my 2 cents worth.

Back to the blog (otherwise I'll never get to sleep).

David

 

[dfarkas]

Who said a trade-in isn't possible? Find a dealer who will work with you.

We're offering a trade-in on and M8 towards an M8.2. It isn't a Leica program, it's ours. What's the difference in the end?

Regardless, I do belive that if a company can develop a revolutionary product that shakes up the status quo, offers better IQ and handling, with a resonable price tag, people will buy it regardless. If you want the best product you will get it.

I saw a mass exodus this past year from Canon to Nikon. Did Nikon offer some type of trade-in program on Canon bodies and lenses?

David

 

[cmb_]

David - what is your opinion of the lenses for the S2?
Image quality - like we expect from the best of Leica?
Build quality?
Was the autofocus quick and responsive? Autofocus quiet?

How was the handling of the body compared to the DMR?

Thank you for all your input so far!

 

[dfarkas]

David - what is your opinion of the lenses for the S2?
Image quality - like we expect from the best of Leica?
Build quality?
Was the autofocus quick and responsive? Autofocus quiet?

How was the handling of the body compared to the DMR?

Thank you for all your input so far!

I'm getting all that info put in my blog post. Still trying to weed down the images. I took over 200 snaps today (D-Lux 3) of just Leica stuff!

Short answer though is I am happy. I'll post when the blog entry is complete... boy do I envy those guys who just post 3 or 4 images and write 100 words. Yesterday's entry was 1600 words. Today isn't looking any shorter.

David

 

[Nitnaros]

I agree with what Dave said, but also what Eric said about Leica customer support.

The S2 could well fit my shooting needs, but Leica would need to ensure that there it is backed up with customer service and timely repair.

Currently, dropping off equipment for CLA or repair at Leica Allendale results in 3-4 months waiting period; Leica just told me that this week. It took them one week to assign an internal ticket number to my items, and Colleen presented that as big process to me. Took them only 5 biz days to enter my repair items into their system! No status tracking of course.

Dave, I have no doubt that you and other competent Leica dealers can provide top-notch dealer service.

BUT what you folks (dealers) need to emphasize with Leica is the service issue. If my equipment needs repair, you can't fix it, Photovillage can't fix it. Right now this means "disaster" if your Leica gear is your primary gear. If Leica wants to be (again) more than a hobbyist brand, that needs to be addressed.

The 24mm-lux e.g. seems perfect for my event & portrait work.
I am hesitating to pre-order, since getting my existing M lenses to focus properly would have taken months with Leica. I had to go to DAG for a reasonable turnaround time.

With a high-tech system like a S2, there is no DAG or equivalent external option. Leica simply needs to get its act together in NJ. You folks on the dealer side should push that with Kaufmann and co. The current situation is active "sales prevention".

Peter

 

[Guy Mancuso]

Okay what mount is this or is it new

 

[dfarkas]

Okay what mount is this or is it new

New mount. Leica S-Mount.

Wrapping up the blogging.... 3300 words today... if only I were being paid by the word, maybe I could get myself a nice S2 after Photokina is done. :ROTFL:

Seriously, just about there and lots of good info.

David

 

[dfarkas]

Finally done with Day 1.

Check out the blog for detailed hands-on with the S2 and other goodies.

It is 6:30 AM here! I need to sleep.

David

 

[EH21]

Dave,
I thank you for your blog - definitely some information there that I couldn't find elsewhere.

I've never dealt with you but gather you have a great working relationship with your customers. I've bought a number of things from Camerawest which is my closest Leica dealer. Certainly if I walk in or call, they know who I am but when I have a problem with a piece of leica equipment, as I did, they recommend sending it in to the factory. Is your shop different? When you sell the S2 how will you handle service issues such as those that came up with the M8's? Do you know yet what Leica intends to offer in terms of warrantee?
Eric

 

[pascal_meheut]

+1. Thank you for your excellent blog.

 

[Ralph Eisenberg]

+1 Thanks for the very informative blog overview

 

[robmac]

David - read the blog. Nice info. Well done.

Looks like a very well-designed piece of kit. In all honesty, assuming it all works out well and lives up to your initial impressions once in production, if I were in the market for a new Leica DSLR I'd probably forgo any future R10 and save my pesos for the S2.