The GetDPI Photography Forum

Great to see you here. Join our insightful photographic forum today and start tapping into a huge wealth of photographic knowledge. Completing our simple registration process will allow you to gain access to exclusive content, add your own topics and posts, share your work and connect with other members through your own private inbox! And don’t forget to say hi!

Leica S Leak

cmb_

Subscriber & Workshop Member
Better than a 100 Apo Macro R or that the recent M lenses? I believe Peter Karbe of course but I'm just having a hard time imagining what can be better than "perfect" :eek:
Both the 180/2 and the 180/2.8 have already topped the 100 Macro. Additionally, the 280/4 beats both the 180's! So if the S lenses are the best ever from Leica then Leica must be re-defining perfect, as you suggest Pascal.
 

jonoslack

Active member
REPAT after me . I WILL NOT BE THE FIRST ONE TO GET ONE.I WILL NOT BE THE FIRST ONE TO GET ONE.I WILL NOT BE THE FIRST ONE TO GET ONE.I WILL NOT BE THE FIRST ONE TO GET ONE.I WILL NOT BE THE FIRST ONE TO GET ONE.I WILL NOT BE THE FIRST ONE TO GET ONE.I WILL NOT BE THE FIRST ONE TO GET ONE.I WILL NOT BE THE FIRST ONE TO GET ONE.I WILL NOT BE THE FIRST ONE TO GET ONE.I WILL NOT BE THE FIRST ONE TO GET ONE.I WILL NOT BE THE FIRST ONE TO GET ONE.I WILL NOT BE THE FIRST ONE TO GET ONE.I WILL NOT BE THE FIRST ONE TO GET ONE.I WILL NOT BE THE FIRST ONE TO GET ONE.I WILL NOT BE THE FIRST ONE TO GET ONE.I WILL NOT BE THE FIRST ONE TO GET ONE.I WILL NOT BE THE FIRST ONE TO GET ONE.I WILL NOT BE THE FIRST ONE TO GET ONE.I WILL NOT BE THE FIRST ONE TO GET ONE.I WILL NOT BE THE FIRST ONE TO GET ONE.I WILL NOT BE THE FIRST ONE TO GET ONE.I WILL NOT BE THE FIRST ONE TO GET ONE.I WILL NOT BE THE FIRST ONE TO GET ONE.I WILL NOT BE THE FIRST ONE TO GET ONE.I WILL NOT BE THE FIRST ONE TO GET ONE.I WILL NOT BE THE FIRST ONE TO GET ONE.I WILL NOT BE THE FIRST ONE TO GET ONE.I WILL NOT BE THE FIRST ONE TO GET ONE.I WILL NOT BE THE FIRST ONE TO GET ONE.I WILL NOT BE THE FIRST ONE TO GET ONE.I WILL NOT BE THE FIRST ONE TO GET ONE.I WILL NOT BE THE FIRST ONE TO GET ONE.I WILL NOT BE THE FIRST ONE TO GET ONE.
Hi Guy
Having read David's blog, and looked at the camera and the specifications.
Frankly I don't see that you have a chance

Poor You!

(mind you, I'm already weakening!).
 

dfarkas

Workshop Member
Mark -- what exactly do you mean? A format specific focal length? As David said -- a 70mm lens is a 70mm lens no matter what format it is on. The format will dictate the angle of view, but not the focal length. A 70mm on the S2 will act like a normal lens.

David -- I wanted to ask you about Peter Karbe and the 75 lux -- you said he didn't like it...can you elaborate? I am not sure I can trust someone who doesn't like the 75 lux...
Let me clarify. He felt that a 1.4 aperture isn't practical for a 75mm lens and that too many sacrifices had to be made. Considering he personally designed the 75 APO Cron to replace the aging Lux, I'd tend to think he prefers that one. And though he didn't say so, I would venture to guess that he likes the 50 Lux ASPH better than the pre-ASPH. Just a guess.

Don't sweat it. If you like the 75 Lux, use it. Simple as that.

David
 

dfarkas

Workshop Member
Hi Guy
Having read David's blog, and looked at the camera and the specifications.
Frankly I don't see that you have a chance

Poor You!

(mind you, I'm already weakening!).
If anyone wants to be on the short list, let me know soon. Demand is certainly heating up. If Guy waits any longer to commit, he'll actually have to wait until other people get the camera first. :eek:

:ROTFL::ROTFL::ROTFL:

All kidding aside, I am starting a list due to popular demand. If you want to be on my list for any of the new stuff (S, R, or M) let me know and I'll pencil you in. If anyone wants to know more details about the camera, just give me a call when I get back to the US (Oct 1) and I'll be happy to discuss my impressions with you. 800-327-1776

Also, as a bonus... anyone that buys an S2 from me is invited to get a hands-on, one-on-one training session with me at my shop in Florida when you take delivery of the camera. And really, who doesn't want to be in South Florida in the summer! :rolleyes: Well, at least we have good A/C down there. For those that don't want the added expense of travelling to FL to pick up their camera, I will, as usual, be available to walk you through everything on the phone or by email.

David
 

KurtKamka

Subscriber Member
David,

Very, very nice job on the blog and your reportage of the event. There will be no way Leica can give Phase an exclusive on the S2 after such a display of dealer dedication. ;)

Kurt
 

robsteve

Subscriber
I've just been climbing hills in Crete . . . .
Catch me if you can :ROTFL::ROTFL:

David, it's a nice offer, but a trip to Florida to visit your shop would cost almost as much as the camera!
I bet you could find a flight for under 300 Pounds and if you buy a S2, I sure Dale labs might just help with the hotel bill :)
 

jonoslack

Active member
I bet you could find a flight for under 300 Pounds and if you buy a S2, I sure Dale labs might just help with the hotel bill :)
Hi there
Of course, you're right . . . . . but don't you think if I came to Florida then Guy might be able to get at me? :eek:
I suspect he's much bigger than I am! :p
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
5 foot 8 inches when I jump. :ROTFL::ROTFL::ROTFL:

You come to the states i am flying over to your destination for sure. Jack and I will be there with bells on and a empty glass to fill up for sure.
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
BTW folks there is NO R adapter for the new S camera. Can't be done, just in case you missed it on the forums or from Davids reports.
 

gero

New member
David, I hadn't seen your report on Peter Kaber on the blog. Just for that I bet the trip was worth it. It looks like a grate conversation.

I really think that if he has more talks with different photographers with diff. styles he could get a better feel for what people want but I guess, us as users, must cope with his stile of designing them. But what is grate about the M is that we get all this history in different designers to work with; even from other companies like canon zeis VL etc... And I would miss all that history in the S system; that is why I would love it if the S2 was open to the M & R like the S1, we would get the hole circle of the lens to play with.

I still hope we get a chance to get him to a workshop.
 

jonoslack

Active member
5 foot 8 inches when I jump. :ROTFL::ROTFL::ROTFL:
But what about volume - that's what worries me!. . . . :p


You come to the states i am flying over to your destination for sure. Jack and I will be there with bells on and a empty glass to fill up for sure.
Keep those bells off, or the glass will stay empty. I can handle most things in life, but men with bells on . . . no thank you!
 

robmac

Well-known member
Interesting comments on S2 from EP:

http://www.imx.nl/photo/Analysis/page119/page119.html

Looks like in 2006 Lee (the S2's architect) wanted to avoid the heavyweight competition, ever-declining price/performance curves and churn (even worse now) of the DSLR market in which Leica was/is ill-equipped to compete and focus on one where the pace of innovation is slower, IQ matters above all (w.r.t tech features) and the snack bracket better suited Leica.

Can't fault the logic, the execution will be interesting. As for an R10 - my $0.02 is don't hold your breath for early 2010. The logic of (not) entering the traditional DSLR market aside, the S2 will make or break Leica in the eyes of non-Leicaphiles. It is a bet-the-firm product.

Management, if smart, will focus ALL it's non-M efforts on overcoming the myriad of challenges ahead of the S2 (production, S&S, rental shop penetration, distribution, etc) and proving the S2 (and the company behind it) can play in the 'pro' market once again. If the S2 fails to hit escape velocity, the R10 will die with it and whether an R10 shoulda, coulda, woulda will be the least of everyone's issues.

Once the S2 is proven a success, trickling-down some of it's S2 tech to a small volume (in the DSLR scheme of things) mini-S (cropped sensor, higher fps for non-studio shooters) or 'R10' will capitalize on an established and proven product (and service changes?) vs. having two unproven inter-linked products from a manufacturer with a lot of (non-Leicaphile) customer perceptions to overcome.

Selling (and supporting) 1000 successful and endorsed S2s will do more for Leica's reputation and perceived value as a vendor (and thus long-term financials) than selling 5000 R10s and I think/hope management realizes that.

On top of everything else, the more I look at the 35mm < x< MFDB or 'tweener concept and how I think it's going to heat up shortly via CaNikon, I do think 35mm FF will begin to be pushed down the stack of popularity.

A couple of years ago 35mm FF was the holy grail. But it's been done, the tech is getting illy-cheap (e.g. 5DII) and manufacturers are starting to scrape the bottom of the barrel trying to improve the high-count 24x36mm S/N ratio (e.g.micro lenses, more transparent RGB filters, amplifier power, endless firmware signal manipulation, etc).

Toss onto the ever-improving 'affordability' of larger-sensor MFDB kits and I think a lot of pro/pro-sumer folks (self included) will REALLY like the idea of a modestly larger than 35mm sensor that enables a high MP count yet a clean S/N ratio and expanded DR - even at the expensive of say frame rate, etc. If CaNikon are stupid enough to leave an AA filter on their upcoming 'tweener entrants - well instant competitive advantage to the S2.
 
Last edited:

LJL

New member
If CaNikon are stupid enough to leave an AA filter on their upcoming 'tweener entrants - well instant competitive advantage to the S2.
Are their any CMOS sensors in any of these cameras that do not have the AA filter? The first Canon 1-series had a CCD sensor....not great for noise, but very good for color, detail, and DR at that time. So, if the fabs keep churning out CMOS type sensors that have better high ISO performance (what many have asked for), but seem to need that AA filter for whatever reason, there may continue to be a "gap" of sorts.....CCD not as good at higher ISO, but great for a lot of the other things, and CMOS great at higher ISO, but not the best looking for the other things all the time. Just curious how this will play out.

As an aside, I just did some natural light baby portraits yesterday shooting the 1DsMkII w/ 24-70 f2.8L and the M8 with 50/1.0 lens. Both sets of shots look very good, but it is interesting that the client kept liking the M8 shots for their "color detail" (her words), compared to the higher res 1DsMkII shots. Admittedly, there is a big difference in the glass, but my 24-70 is very good and I was shooting at its sweetspot of f4, and the Noct at f2-2.8, but in the files things just look "nicer" from the CCD in the M8. This is one of the reasons why I keep looking at MF and now the S2, as none of the CMOS cameras (Canon, Nikon, Sony) seem to have that same look, even at ISO 100-200. Hard to describe, but most know what I am talking about.

LJ
 

robmac

Well-known member
You raise an interesting point re: CCD and CMOS. There is something about CCD color.

That said, uber-ISO performance ("I don't need to learn about light or need no stinkin' tripod...or about managing skinny DoF..") seems to have become the 'must have' over absolute IQ and scene reproduction these days with the average photog.

It will be interesting to see if any MFDB players eventually move to CMOS to give themselves an ISO advantage - and/or if some bright lights at Kodak, Dalsa develop a package for CaNikon (much like for the S2) to play with when they enter the 'tweener market.
 

doug

Well-known member
The S2's sensor uses an RGBI pattern rather than the Bayer pattern, which according to Kodak improves sensitivity (i.e., less noise at higher ISO).
 

robmac

Well-known member
Cool - thanks Doug. Should check out the Kodak news release. It will be interesting to see how far Kodak sells the tech in that sensor. While the sensor itself will be exclusive to Leica, the technology that it carriers will be Kodak proprietary.

interesting times ahead.
 

pcunite

New member
I hope the S2 designers add LiveView by ship date. A camera like this I would permanently mate to a tripod and thusly manual focus for absolute precision. If the viewfinder is not precision matte how would this be achieved otherwise?
 
J

jmboss

Guest
Is there a MSRP or "Street Price" List for the Leica S2 Camera Body, Lenses, Etc. posted yet?

Thanks,

Joe
 
Top