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Why the leica Hate?

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Hosermage

Active member
Cost is a funny topic... To me, I'm kinda renting it. My true cost is the amount I paid minus the amount I will sell it for (adjust for inflation and less interests earned, if you must). And... if you can sell it for more than you paid for, then it cost more to not buy it! I haven't even account for the photos and enjoyment I get out of it, yet.
 

iiiNelson

Well-known member
Well, frankly I think that one aspect of any high priced premium product (Leica, Porsche, B&O, jewelry, you name it...) is showing that one can afford such a thing. And that can cause attitude problems in other people who can or cannot afford that.
I USED to think that before I bought my first M9 but I like that it is discreet, I like that many people have no idea what it is, what it costs, and that they think I'm shooting an old film camera. My A77 gets more attention as it's larger and looks "more professional" with the battery grip and 70-200 attached.

I think discretion is the another huge reason that Leica users like the M. I suspect that the exclusivity and brand status is a factor for some but I don't think it's a factor for most. I think it's the same way for buyers or other expensive brands. People buy what they like and what they can afford within their means.
 

jonoslack

Active member
Well, frankly I think that one aspect of any high priced premium product (Leica, Porsche, B&O, jewelry, you name it...) is showing that one can afford such a thing. And that can cause attitude problems in other people who can or cannot afford that.

Having said that, Leicas seem to be great cameras in many ways. Great enough to justify such prices? That's up to each individual to decide.

Disclaimer: I don't own a Leica, I haven't touched a Leica, I couldn't afford one. Don't know if I would buy one if I could.
Hmm, well, having owned a Porsche I've had the notice that went with it (not sure that I liked it much). But I've had Leica's for years, and I can count the number of times strangers comment on it on the fingers of one hand . . . . and my friends all think I'm completely mad to spend so much on a camera. Small, brassy cornered metal box as status symbol . . . I don't think so!
 

Hosermage

Active member
Jono, it's even worse when you buy a USED brassy metal box like me. I'm embarassed to tell my relatives how much I paid for it. This is where I hope the "discreet" factor comes in so they won't even notice that I got a different camera.
 

charlesphoto

New member
Ive seen a LOT of Mint ones also , I want to see a M8 or M9 that looks like this:

Chasing Light » Blog Archive » Some Well-Worn Leicas
Umm, these are cameras used by pros for 25 plus years. I know we are living in the internet attention deficit disorder age but maybe you want to give the pros (who generally when they find something that works for them hang onto it) more than three years to wear down their M9's?

Maybe those without Leica M's might want to actually step back and think before posting....
 

dude163

Active member
I own a M8 and its starting to brass after 1 year of use , granted I carry it almost everyday and fondle it every other one. :)
 

250swb

Member
I did not know that at all. :D

All I observed was, barring one well brassed up black M9, almost every other one for sale was "mint".
Perhaps because the black finish on the M9 is a tough powder coating and doesn't brass like an MP body.

This is what caught a few people out when the M9 was first released. They wanted to look like rough tough photographers and got the sandpaper out to be first with a brassed camera, only to find they looked a little bit stupid when even harder used professional examples were still looking brand new.

Steve
 

jonoslack

Active member
Perhaps because the black finish on the M9 is a tough powder coating and doesn't brass like an MP body.
Hi Steve
mine's certainly brassing okay - without the application of anything more dramatic than my scratchy old hands!
The silver chrome M9p is a different matter (it's just getting dirty!).

all the best
 

fotografz

Well-known member
The fame and fortune (or rather the price tag) of the brand works against it (at times) being used as a tool that ought to be.

I have only seen one M9 sold here that really looked brassed. I did congratulate that seller. :)
Congratulate that seller for what? Not taking care of his tools?

As my Dad taught me ... take care of your working tools and they will take care of you ... and never loan them to anyone because they won't.

Jewelry posers pale in comparison to the those who artificially add wear to a camera to assume the mantle of "experience". :thumbdown:

Marc
 
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Vivek

Guest
Jewelry posers pale in comparison to the those who artificially add wear to a camera to assume the mantle of "experience". :thumbdown:

Marc
Marc, There is no reason for him to brass his camera on purpose to pose. It was not done deliberately. Natural use and lots of it. It was not abused in that it was perfectly working and even the LCD was immaculate.

On the other saying, thanks for posting. Never heard that (especially the latter part) before and is definitely something that I could use. :)
 

fotografz

Well-known member
Marc, There is no reason for him to brass his camera on purpose to pose. It was not done deliberately. Natural use and lots of it. It was not abused in that it was perfectly working and even the LCD was immaculate.

On the other saying, thanks for posting. Never heard that (especially the latter part) before and is definitely something that I could use. :)
I didn't specifically mean that owner ... just responding to the suggestion of taking sand paper to any camera to look "experienced" as mentioned.

In Karate, a well worn Black Belt is a sign of having tied the belt over many years ... those that tried to simulate that experience were thrown into Kumite with fighters well above their skill level ... where their posing yielded a just reward :thumbup:

It'd be cool if we could ship sandpaper camera posers over to a war zone to add a real patina to their camera ... which they could then be proud of ... if they ever make it out alive. :rolleyes:

-Marc
 

Godfrey

Well-known member
How much brassing a camera shows has little to do with how much use it's been through. My cameras are all well used but show very little wear. Even my beloved little Rollei 35S, which has been around the world with me countless times over the past thirty years, has nary a mark on it. That's because I take care of my cameras' finish.

Vivek doesn't think Leicas are relevant. Well, to him they may not be ... that's his decision and his opinion. The M9 and M4-2 are both quite relevant for my photography ... that's my decision and opinion. Does it really matter that I completely disagree with Vivek? Of course not.
 

jonoslack

Active member
How much brassing a camera shows has little to do with how much use it's been through. My cameras are all well used but show very little wear. Even my beloved little Rollei 35S, which has been around the world with me countless times over the past thirty years, has nary a mark on it. That's because I take care of my cameras' finish.
I quite agree Godfrey - I like to hold my M9 in my hand when I'm out shooting, and that does tend to make for rubbed corners (I have one nasty mark where I fell over on some scree) - when I don't carry it in my hand, it's in a shoulder bag, and it isn't banging against anything else in the bag.

I don't mind the brassy corners, but I always do everything I can reasonably to do avoid them.
Vivek doesn't think Leicas are relevant. Well, to him they may not be ... that's his decision and his opinion. The M9 and M4-2 are both quite relevant for my photography ... that's my decision and opinion. Does it really matter that I completely disagree with Vivek? Of course not.
Of course not - I was going to ask Vivek to define 'relevant to photography', but having already asked him to define 'waste of money' I didn't think I'd bother :)

So, it seems, for once, you and I completely agree . . . does it matter? Of course not.:)

all the best
 

Shashin

Well-known member
To hell with Leica hate, lets have Leica love! I think madonna sums it up best:

Leica Virgin

Somehow I made it through


Didn't know how lost I was


Until I found you





I was beat, incomplete


I'd been had, I was sad and blue

 :scry:
But you made me feel


Yeah, you made me feel


Shiny and new

Leica virgin


Touched for the very first time

 :loco:
Leica virgin


When your shutter beats
Next to mine





Gonna give you all my love, boy


My fear is fading fast


Been saving it all for you


'Cause only love can last





You're so fine and you're mine


Make me strong, yeah you make me bold


Oh your love thawed out


Yeah, your love thawed out


What was scared and cold

Oooh, oooh, oooh





Leica virgin


Touched for the very first time

 :loco:
Leica virgin


When your shutter beats
Next to mine





You're so fine and you're mine


I'll be yours 'till the end of time


'Cause you made me feel


Yeah, you made me feel


I've nothing to hide

Leica virgin


Touched for the very first time

 :loco:
Leica virgin


When your heart beats
Next to mine





Leica virgin, ooh, ooh


Leica virgin


Feels so good inside


When you hold me, and your heart beats, and you love me




Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh


Ooh, baby


Can't you hear my heart beat


For the very first time?


Eat your heart out Paul Simon.

(I apologize in advance if this song starts repeating in your head over and over and over and over and over and over and over again.)
 
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Vivek

Guest
I quite agree Godfrey - I like to hold my M9 in my hand when I'm out shooting, and that does tend to make for rubbed corners (I have one nasty mark where I fell over on some scree) - when I don't carry it in my hand, it's in a shoulder bag, and it isn't banging against anything else in the bag.

I don't mind the brassy corners, but I always do everything I can reasonably to do avoid them.


Of course not - I was going to ask Vivek to define 'relevant to photography', but having already asked him to define 'waste of money' I didn't think I'd bother :)

So, it seems, for once, you and I completely agree . . . does it matter? Of course not.:)

all the best
You know this kind of discussions are complicated. :)

Jono, I probably own (and might even use) more Leica gear than you.

Think about this- is Leica all about digital Ms or even Ms? ;)
 

Hosermage

Active member
Not directed to anyone, just a thought floated in my head...

Please, hate something for what it has, and not what it lacks. At least that way your hate will be more substantiated. Let me explain... if you hate it for what it lacks, then you can simply avoid it, ignore it, and not be bothered by it, so why hate it? It actually makes it sound like you secretly want to love it, if it didn't have those faults. On the other hand, if you hate something for what it has, then it's obviously something you can't change so it makes better sense for you to hate it. But then again, why not just move on and forget about it?

With every new camera released, I hear people say that "Leica's in trouble", this gadget has better AF, ISO, DR, Liveview... etc. I want to congratulate those people for they have found a camera that better fit their needs, because I had no illusions about getting them from the M9. I, for one, moved from the Sony NEX to the M9 and I'm amazed by how none of that matters to me. Perhaps it's the delayed gratification effect, but I find myself loving the surprises I get when I see the picture rendered beautifully for the first time in Lightroom. Now I think that live-view is like the dirty spoiler that ruins a movie before you get to experience it.

Please take what I say with a grain of salt... as I'm still in honeymoon with my M9 :)
 
V

Vivek

Guest
I have heard film fanatics complaining about "instant gratification" of digital.

This is the first time I come across "delayed gratification". :)
 

Hosermage

Active member
hehe... a virtual photography generation gap :D Me, having never gone through the film era, live-view was all I've known. I must admit that it was a major concern for me switching to M9, but I easily adjusted. It's great for an amateur like me, because sometimes it can be "delayed disappointments" as well, but I'd probably feel different if I was a Pro using it in a paid-job.

But, hey, I googled "delayed gratification", guess what I found: Delayed Gratification, Intelligence Linked
I didn't say it!
 
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Vivek

Guest
I always had great respect for many of the film fanatics. :)

BTW, David, you should really try film on an M.
 

Bob

Administrator
Staff member
Actually,
What seems clear to me is that for probably complicated reasons, Leica brand gear seams to pull out the passions of folks in all parts of the spectrum.
Thinking back to our moderating challenges here on this forum, it seems that the majority of them have been in some way related to Leica gear.
From the buy and sell price police to the inevitable "my gear is brassier than your gear" scrums, Leica has been right up there heading the charts.
When the doctor is in I will let you know and then we can take turns on the couch.
-bob

be sure to stock lots of tissues
 
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