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Why the leica Hate?
- Thread starter dude163
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Hosermage
Active member
Haha... I'm not sure I have enough intelligence for THAT much delay
It's definitely on the back of my mind though, kind of a "rediscover your roots" type of thing. It can play mistress to the M9 when I get that itch
jonoslack
Active member
Hi VivekYou know this kind of discussions are complicated.
Jono, I probably own (and might even use) more Leica gear than you.
Think about this- is Leica all about digital Ms or even Ms?
Of course it isn't - and I daresay you do own and use more Leica kit than me.
But I don't think that makes the M9 irrelevant. . . and for me and Godfrey at least it isn't a waste of money.
Lax Jought
New member
Aye, that be true. I am a Leica fan, having owned and photographed with a M8.2 for more than a year but I sincerely hope Fuji kicks Leica's *** and bring them back down to earth.
Someone in another forum posted a link to a short-ish article which I found interesting, I particularly liked this part (edited by me for relevance):
"Q: So why not Leica?
A: The M9 is too expensive (Editor's note: the € 5 500 body only). ... The context is very hard for traders, between the popularization of the photo - and the dumbing down - and declining budgets for the press, money is the sinews of war. For me, the Leica M9 is a jewel for the wealthy. "
Someone in another forum posted a link to a short-ish article which I found interesting, I particularly liked this part (edited by me for relevance):
"Q: So why not Leica?
A: The M9 is too expensive (Editor's note: the € 5 500 body only). ... The context is very hard for traders, between the popularization of the photo - and the dumbing down - and declining budgets for the press, money is the sinews of war. For me, the Leica M9 is a jewel for the wealthy. "
4season
Well-known member
"Irrelevant" is actually a pretty good description of how I feel about paying $4000 for a 50mm lens, and $2000 premiums for a mostly cosmetic change to the M9 camera body (M9P). I think Leica correctly realized that technical excellence was quickly becoming a commodity, and that their best hope for continued success was to emphasize the emotional appeal/user experience of their products--luxury branding, essentially.
I have nothing against attention to detail that makes things more enjoyable to use, though Apple has spoilt me by doing it at competitive prices.
I have nothing against attention to detail that makes things more enjoyable to use, though Apple has spoilt me by doing it at competitive prices.
THIS is a pretty decent summation of "Irrelevant" on a personal level IMO.
Maybe we tend to forget that many very serious photographers just can't pony up those prices. I vividly recall balking at the price of a Nikon Pro film body not all that long ago.
Those with the means to buy as they wish, can indulge their passion in any way they may want ... however, that doesn't mean they are any less serious about their photography.
I'm not sure the technical excellence of Leica lenses are becoming a commodity. IMO, they started as an optics company, and remain the premiere optics company that happens to make cameras.
Many M users long for the days when one could buy a body and keep it most of their life. In a manner of speaking, I viewed the M9P Chrome in that fashion. The M9 reached the level of image quality that suffices for my use of a rangefinder, so I sold both my M9 black paint bodies and hedged my longevity bet with chrome rather than paint, and a tougher LCD. I'm sure the M10 will be enticing, and I'm also sure I'll be tempted ... yet gone are the days when I'd immediately order two of the latest Ms for my work ... I will keep my current M9P, and add one M10 ... maybe.
-Marc
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Vivek
Guest
They did not start out as an optics company.
Leica Camera AG - History
While they may be technically excellent (many are), Leica lenses are just stocks, just like Tulip bulbs were when stock market started.
jonoslack
Active member
:clap::ROTFL: Excellent Vivek, and I do agree - However, I'd take issue at the JUST - Actually in both cases - both tulips and Leica lenses have intrinsic values beyond their stock value.
Whilst the Tulip bubble burst, the Leica one might too, but it's slightly less likely to as people cannot grow them in their back garden :bugeyes:
V
Vivek
Guest
I agree, Jono. I did not spend bit more time to express it better. Not just stocks- I agree.
rayyan
Well-known member
From my point of view, I agree. Not paper ( like stock/options etc ) but items that can be traded. And make a healthy profit or loss.
Just like tulips, or real estate. Love tulips and other flowers, real estate, some Leica branded items and gold. Not unlike currency. Intrinsic value ?
I don't really care. If there are buyers and sellers, I shall take a position.
Just like tulips. Ever see the prices of a boquet of roses around Valentine's day?
Love Leica. Just hope prices go up. Best part ;can use it for photography too..my M and Leica lenses.
Porche..not a big enough market.
Wrong History ... not far enough back ... :lecture:
1869, Ernst Leitz took over the Optical Institute of Germany, and renamed it the Optical Institute of Ernst Leitz.
Primarily a producer of Microscopes, Leitz added binoculars, still and cine cameras and lenses, and other specilists optical equipment (like excellent analog projectors and film enlargers including enlarging lenses) ... some of which which they still make. Leica originally was a contraction of Leitz Camera ... and today the lenses, medial optics, spotting scopes and binoculars now also carry that name as opposed to Leitz.
Marc
Oh, I forgot to add that no matter how hard I tried, I never was able to take a photo with a Tulip bulb ... I did use "bulb" on one of my older cameras, and also used "flash bulbs" on another old camera ... if either of those count
-Marc
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Vivek
Guest
Rayyan, I love Leica too. My question(and answer to myself) was the relevance. Jono and Godfrey and others have a different point of view.
I hope Leica lenses keep going up in value, for your sake and everyone else who own them.
V
Vivek
Guest
I have/use many Leitz lenses. The topic was about Leica and then about the digital M + a cornucopia of everything under the Sun.
I quoted what the official site says.
IMO Leica does both - they emphasize the emotional appeal but on the other side they still produce technical/optical excellence.
I think what we also have to understand is that lower output numbers of cameras and lenses leads to higher prices than mass production in the far east. 1% better optical quality can increase cost much more than 1%.
But I totally agree that emotional appeal and luxury is also one part of their success. I recently talked to a guy from Leica and he said he was surprized how few people by the Summarit line of lenses, even though these are excellent lenses as well - and buy instead Summiluxes for 2-3 times the price.
Pretty condescending of you to say so.Rayyan, I love Leica too. My question(and answer to myself) was the relevance. Jono and Godfrey and others have a different point of view.
I hope Leica lenses keep going up in value, for your sake and everyone else who own them.
Who cares if they increase in value ? (although that's been a nice feature lately ... but only if you sell them.)
The value is in using them. They aren't bars of gold or Tulip bulbs, they're camera lenses.
To put a fine point on the relevance issue ... your repetitious opinion is irrelevant to those who find use in Leica products, so why keep beating a :deadhorse: ?
-Marc
Point was clearly stated ... they started out as a optical company and IMO they still are an optical company that happens to make cameras.I have/use many Leitz lenses. The topic was about Leica and then about the digital M + a cornucopia of everything under the Sun.
I quoted what the official site says.
But of course you are never wrong ...
-Marc
V
Vivek
Guest
That was a reply to my friend, Rayyan. Wrong characterization. Plain and simple.
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