M Monochrom . . . . it's not a review folks

[docmoore]

Leica before the M8 was all about tri-X and fixer. Images came to mind in B&W.
-bob

I tended to Pan F and APX 25.....so wanted Tech Pan to work but only found out about Pyro later.

Bob

 

[Stuart Richardson]

I have to say I love how different everyone's perspective is! Personally, I love color film in an M camera -- the m lenses have fantastic color, they really sing with slide film. That said, I will shoot black and white film with them as well, perhaps even more often. And I don't think the M cameras are only street cameras -- I use them for all sorts of things, as do many others. Nor is everyone is truly interested in photographing the human condition, as Marc put it. My own street photography stems from an interest of the interplay of light, architecture and people who are more compositional elements than representatives of a well-defined emotional state. When I am photographing people, it is almost exclusively people who I know and care about. We all have our interests, and we will grab the tools that seem to serve them best...it's quite nice to know that we use the tools to make different things.
In terms of the M9M, it seems superb for people who exclusively shoot black and white. Personally, I like the option to do both, but I would of course love to have one body to do B&W and one for color, but at 8000 it is not in the cards. That said, it does not seem THAT extreme compared to the regular M9P, not to mention the Noctilux or new summicron. I would rather have an M9M rather than a noctilux or 50mm summicron asph any day!

 

[ohnri]

I, for one, am very appreciative of the photos and discussion provided by Jono.

Anyone that has seen his work knows that he is an excellent and thoughtful photographer who also shares a passion for the equipment itself. Combined with his pleasing and easy to read prose, he seems an fine choice for Leica to make for pre-release testing.

This nonsensical and excessive criticism of his MM images, many of which are quite strong, appears to be coming from people with rather mundane portfolios. And, more to the point, detracts from his rather useful contribution to the Leica community regarding this interesting camera.

My own work is not exactly heavy on BW but I don't shy away from it either.

Some images from my recent exhibition here:

April 2012 – Bill Fulcher |

Leica M9 sports shooter and cage fighting aficionado,

Bill

 

[RF_Licks]

Jono, thanks for posting and sharing the pics at your site.

I have been following the development on the MM closely since the official launch as I am very interested in this camera. I appreciate your subtle or "lack of pp" on the files. This is what I expected to see, neutral files to show what the sensor is capable of. Its been an amusing few days, reading about all the complains from people who are not interested in this camera, (eg no color, old firmware, poor LCD, etc etc.) This camera is definitely not meant for them, nor is the M9 to probably 95-99% of the digital camera market or photographers. This is a niche within a niche and I salute Leica for bringing the MM to the market for the 1% who will appreciate this camera.

I'm at a point where I'm considering shooting purely B&W and the MM may have just helped me decide. My only concern is Sept 2012 seems a few months away and I'll probably wait and see what else Leica has up their sleeves. Judging from the internet chatter, its just a matter of time that a M10 shows up, my only concern is that it might be priced out of the range of many photographers, including myself.

Joe

 

[m_driscoll]

HI There
Many thanks for the heads up on this - it's nice to know when one is being slagged off!
I gave myself a 24 hour cooling off period, and then posted a response - I hope it doesn't sound either defensive or sulky Never complain . . . and never explain is how it goes, but sometimes its tough to keep one's mouth shut (click on the iink if you want to find out whether I'm grumpy or crotchety!!
all the best

Jono: Excellent response on RFf. :clap:

Jaap's post after yours was 'telling': "I have not spoken to one user-expert here who was not over the moon with this camera and many were writing out cheques on the spot."

Cheers, Matt

Zenfolio | Matt Driscoll

 

[m_driscoll]

LOL so that's it take a really expensive Leica into those gritty dirt night stalker beats. Why do I think of hookers and body art here. Oh wait I know why maybe cause of the red lights on the street we get a better black and white filter response . Okay this technically make sense now. I get it, carry on buy without caution but please carry you night stick monopod.

LOL you know I have to give you guys some **** here. Oh that Leica feeling. I miss it at times not sure it misses me though. Seriously I would still love to have a M9 and who knows it just may happen someday.

Have fun folks you know where to find me and send it right back at me.

Jono nice stuff bud as always. BTW don't eat anyone's grumpy attitude, your service to the industry is well appreciated. Remember 99 percent of the time it's just jealousy. I wear the t shirt. Part of being involved sorry to say.

Guy: Right now, it's taking the M9-P and the Nocti into those 'mean streets'. You can run a lot faster without the Nocti weighing you down.

Cheers, Matt

Zenfolio | Matt Driscoll

 

[dhsimmonds]

Guy is right IMHO, better to convert to mono as and when the subject dictates as not every potential picture is right for mono, just as not every one is right for colour.

Good mono photographers can"see" in black and white it seems to me. Darn'd if I can! :ROTFL:

 

[fotografz]

Jono,

Thank you for the blog and pictures - well done. I can see the point of the M9M for people who take a lot of B&W and in comparison to the M9. However how is it going to compare with converted images from the M10. Now with a bit of guesswork, the M10 will have a CMOS sensor with around 28MP and ISO up to 12,000ish + boost. If those figures are anywhere near correct, I feel a converted B&W from the M10 will be close to indistinguishable from an M9M even at high ISO's. The M10 will have the obvious benefit of taking colour but for B&W it has the not inconsiderable benefit of being able to apply filters retrospectively at the conversion stage, in adjustments or even better in lab colour space. For me it's wait for the M10.

Wilson

That is a major consideration isn't it?

Also funds aren't unlimited. After the big financial crisis I went from a Millionaire to a Thousandaire just as I retired, and with all "possibles" piling up (M10, possible S3, Possible new smaller Hasselblad, Leica H to S adapter, need to update my HC120 to the Mark-II version for the 60 back, new lighting needs and upgrades like new Lithium batteries for the Quadra, etc.), one has to take pause and make choices no matter how intriguing something may be.

On the other hand, I'm worried that a CMOS M will not have the image qualities of the CCD Ms, and the stunning developments and fantastic sensor innovations of the D800 tends to bears out that concern to my eye.

This may be the last chance to get a CCD, and one that solves the one nagging concern I've had with CCD Ms, ability to shoot at a higher ISOs.

I need to get my hands on a higher ISO DNG file and play with it before making a commitment to the M Mono ... if I do at all.

-Marc

 

[glenerrolrd]

Marc

Well said. Agree 100% on the CCD IQ which I find much more to my liking . Both the M9 and the S2 work exceptionally well together . They render images in a similar way and without much trouble you can get a collection of images to look seamless. The D800E (which I have now) is different enough that I generally choose ..is this an subject for the M9/S2 or should I go with the Nikons. While I look forward to the advantages of CMOS ...I sort of feel like they will be “taking my Kodachrome (look) away “ again!

The other issues that s been stated before...is the time and effort to refine both your shooting technique and the post processing . It takes thousands of captures to grove a RF technique to the point where you can concentrate on seeing verse fiddling with you camera . Adding new gear has a cost in my effectiveness and takes my focus (concentration ) away from photography .

Not saying that playing with new gear isn t fun but ...

I did give up on the Sony Nex 7 and the Fuji X Pro 1 both because they brought only small improvements to my kit and each required a real effort to master .

Photokina could be a disaster for me if Leica introduces both an M10 and the S3 .:facesmack:

That is a major consideration isn't it?

Also funds aren't unlimited. After the big financial crisis I went from a Millionaire to a Thousandaire just as I retired, and with all "possibles" piling up (M10, possible S3, Possible new smaller Hasselblad, Leica H to S adapter, need to update my HC120 to the Mark-II version for the 60 back, new lighting needs and upgrades like new Lithium batteries for the Quadra, etc.), one has to take pause and make choices no matter how intriguing something may be.

On the other hand, I'm worried that a CMOS M will not have the image qualities of the CCD Ms, and the stunning developments and fantastic sensor innovations of the D800 tends to bears out that concern to my eye.

This may be the last chance to get a CCD, and one that solves the one nagging concern I've had with CCD Ms, ability to shoot at a higher ISOs.

I need to get my hands on a higher ISO DNG file and play with it before making a commitment to the M Mono ... if I do at all.

-Marc

 

[D&A]

Dave (D&A),

i shoot with both the 75 Summilux and the 50 Lux pre-asph. I like the look of the older lenses and am mad about all things Mandler. even my Noctilux is the old E58 which i swear is different from the E60 (and most definitely the f/.95).

i will honestly be thrilled beyond belief to be able to boost the ISO so i can get faster shutter speeds! i plan to push this camera to the limits -- with an array of mostly older lenses.

Hi Cam (and all),

For my own personal perspective, using vintage lenses such as those designed by Mandler on a M9, often help to contribute to a more classical film look, but only to a degree, since modern day digital cameras have too much of a fingerprint and a noise pattern at higher ISO, that really doesn't emulate film all that accurately. Of course post processing has an influence in all this too. The way I see it, the M9M is providing additional steps towards that "end" (producing a more film like image), not because it's a B&W only camera, but the way it exposes for the midtones and shadows (from what I've seen so far) and how it reproduces them. Combine these attributes with a more film like grain structure at higher ISO's, along with judicious of lenses like those designed by Mandler and it's just one more step.

It's not like the M9 cannot produce fantastic B&W images and prints, it can and I've seen some stunning ones processed through Silverfast. It's simply that the M9M is one more step in that evolutionary goal of producing a digital camera that can emulate B&W film. How well it does that is of course subjective and whether the future M10 supersedes the M9 towards that end, we'll just have to wait and see.

Dave (D&A)

 

[jonoslack]

HI Dave

Hi Cam (and all),

For my own personal perspective, using vintage lenses such as those designed by Mandler on a M9, often help to contribute to a more classical film look, but only to a degree, since modern day digital cameras have too much of a fingerprint and a noise pattern at higher ISO, that really doesn't emulate film all that accurately. Of course post processing has an influence in all this too. The way I see it, the M9M is providing additional steps towards that "end" (producing a more film like image), not because it's a B&W only camera, but the way it exposes for the midtones and shadows (from what I've seen so far) and how it reproduces them. Combine these attributes with a more film like grain structure at higher ISO's, along with judicious of lenses like those designed by Mandler and it's just one more step.

It's not like the M9 cannot produce fantastic B&W images and prints, it can and I've seen some stunning ones processed through Silverfast. It's simply that the M9M is one more step in that evolutionary goal of producing a digital camera that can emulate B&W film. How well it does that is of course subjective and whether the future M10 supersedes the M9 towards that end, we'll just have to wait and see.

Dave (D&A)

It's an interesting perspective.
I see it slightly differently, in that I'm really not that interested in the concept of emulating B&W film . . . surely, if that's what you want then you should . . . .erm . . . shoot B&W film!

On the other hand, what I do like is that the MM seems to me to take the 'digital look' out of the digital files. I think it's a different thing again.

here's something different from it:

MM Wate ISO 320 18mm Walberswick, Suffolk.

 

[Brian S]

Beautiful.

I am very happy to see this camera on the market. Leica took a bold step in bringing monochrome back as a salient feature of a digital camera.

I believe that other manufacturers will take a look at how this camera is received. Nikon must have been looking at the Leica cameras to offer the D800e: leaving out the AA filter, something that they have not done since 1998.

 

[D&A]

HI Dave

It's an interesting perspective.
I see it slightly differently, in that I'm really not that interested in the concept of emulating B&W film . . . surely, if that's what you want then you should . . . .erm . . . shoot B&W film!

On the other hand, what I do like is that the MM seems to me to take the 'digital look' out of the digital files. I think it's a different thing again.

Jono,

A very dramatic and striking image by any standards or means. Maybe it's a poor use of a descriptive word for an image, but the phrase "organic" comes to mind when I see an image like this where there are many elements in constant movement simply by the forces of nature. The sky, the ocean and what I would imaging the ever changing shape and form of the sandy beach. Whether this all comes to life in this image is due to the M9M, the photographer, the post processing skills or a combination of two or more things, I cannot say (unless each element is removed one at a time). Yet clearly if such image tonality as reproduced, goes hand in hand with things like the smoothness of the sky which reproduced in such a way that it doesn't take away from the acuity and detail of the rocks/pebbles on the left hand side of the beach, then a good case can be made for this camera. Thats not to say other similarly excellent B&W images can't be made from the regular M9 they can and are. It's partly about convincing the potential user of this camera, that there are advantages to using it for B&W imagery over say another "color" digital camera.

In that sense you are right, it's not "all" about emulating B&W film but besting other digital cameras in its use for B&W imagery and being able to use such a tool for it's superiority in this realm.

No doubt though in my opinion, Leica is also trying to connivence those that shoot B&W film, that this is a viable alternative, and maybe a way to saying...in the future, we might not be producing film cameras anymore, so we're on the road to providing a suitable and acceptable replacement. Just the 1st step among many. Nicely done Jono!

Dave (D&A)

 

[chrism]

Jono, have you tried setting the MM to expose by -1/2 or -1 stop to protect the highlights? It sounds like there is detail enough in the shadows to permit this.

Chris

 

[PeterA]

Well Jonno - with 'fame' comes envy I guess and it is a cheap currency on the internet - I am sure you won't lose too much sleep over it.

Great to see Leica come out with a camera that is dedicated to B&W and might ( even) save a few steps in post processing.

Thanks for posting your snaps as an intro - I liked them.

oh yes I have one on order ...always wanted to have the digi equivalent of what I did in film days- one camera for B&W film and the other for slide..:salute:

Pete

*PS wonderfully lucky to get those fox cub shots mate!

 

[jonoslack]

Jono, have you tried setting the MM to expose by -1/2 or -1 stop to protect the highlights? It sounds like there is detail enough in the shadows to permit this.

Chris

HI Chris
Yes indeed - and anyway, Leica have helped with the newer firmware. Not overexposing is what it always was - easy but you need to think about it!

On the whole I leave the camera at -1/3, but I'm quite prepared to do more if it seems necessary.

It's practice, but certainly not a problem.
all the best

 

[Vivek]

I see it slightly differently, in that I'm really not that interested in the concept of emulating B&W film . . . surely, if that's what you want then you should . . . .erm . . . shoot B&W film!

On the other hand, what I do like is that the MM seems to me to take the 'digital look' out of the digital files. I think it's a different thing again.

Well said! :thumbs:

BTW, FWIW, I do see a similarity in the very long stretch of mid tones and the shadow details from my converted Panasonic G1/GH-2 camera (sporting an NMOS sensor) files in infrared where the Bayer dyes essentially become transparent. It is such a joy to work with and the output is pleasing.

As an offshoot of the M9M, I hope outfits like maxmax will offer conversions of cameras other than a couple Canon DSLR models. I did ask them about the NEX-7 and the answer was a flat no, forcing me to carry on with my own attempts to do it myself.

 

[jonoslack]

Well said! :thumbs:

BTW, FWIW, I do see a similarity in the very long stretch of mid tones and the shadow details from my converted Panasonic G1/GH-2 camera (sporting an NMOS sensor) files in infrared where the Bayer dyes essentially become transparent. It is such a joy to work with and the output is pleasing.

As an offshoot of the M9M, I hope outfits like maxmax will offer conversions of cameras other than a couple Canon DSLR models. I did ask them about the NEX-7 and the answer was a flat no, forcing me to carry on with my own attempts to do it myself.

HI Vivek
you know you need the MM - you know you do . . .. .

 

[Vivek]

Yeah, Jono. It looks like an open and shut case.

To think that I would go back to digital RF while even Leica themselves are openly talking about how wonderful the modern EVFs are...I am torn.

Nevertheless, congrats to Leica! Wonderful stuff!:thumbs:

 

[k-hawinkler]

Maybe an M10 in half a year permits similar images?
K-H.