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Fun with MM DNG - 4 XingPing bridge

jonoslack

Active member
HI There
This is the fourth part of the experiment - Thank you so much for chipping in on the other three (which are still available for download for a day or so).

There is also a potential problem with dropbox limits - I do pay for it, so there is a larger daily limit, but please don't download the file over and over again.

If this is a success, then I'll be able to make other files available. I'm doing it through my website so that my son can amuse himself with the metrics!

You can play with the file, and then you can post your conversion on this thread.

Enjoy!

Click on the Downloads link on the top right

This is my take - I'm sure you can do better (I've been intentionally 'gentle' with the PP)



If interest continues, I'll try and post an M9 / MM comparison soon.
all the best
 

Tim Gray

Member
Thanks again Jono. Not too different from what you got. I'm glad you chose this file because it's clear that the scene's dynamic range was well within the capabilities of the sensor (minus the person's shirt).
 

D&A

Well-known member
If interest continues, I'll try and post an M9 / MM comparison soon.
all the best
Jono,

As always, your time and generosity is greatly appreciated. I'm looking forward to this evening when I can download this file and have a chance to try using various adjustments on it.

Your possibility of posting M9/MM comparisons has been something I've been looking forward to as I'm sure many others have. Is there the possibility of your posting simultaneously, similar images taken with each camera respectfully and posting in the manner which allows us to download the RAW unadjusted DNG from each? Again thanks!

Dave (D&A)
 
Jonathan, first observation is that I cannot open in CaptureOne (sorry if pointed out already). fwiw, your photo's are the only true demo of this camera on the net. Andreas J and Erwin Puts add a lot useful information, so thanks for making these available. Leica made a good choice asking you to do this, and wonderfully brave to take this camera on your trip. I take it you had nothing else with you?
Paul
 

jonoslack

Active member
Jono,

As always, your time and generosity is greatly appreciated. I'm looking forward to this evening when I can download this file and have a chance to try using various adjustments on it.

Your possibility of posting M9/MM comparisons has been something I've been looking forward to as I'm sure many others have. Is there the possibility of your posting simultaneously, similar images taken with each camera respectfully and posting in the manner which allows us to download the RAW unadjusted DNG from each? Again thanks!

Dave (D&A)
Hi Dave
That's the idea - but I got to take the pictures first!
all the best
 

Brian Mosley

New member
These files are incredible... thanks again Jono!



Looking forward to the M9/MM comparison images. :clap:

Brian
 
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The files are wonderful!! I can't wait for one!! I'll print a copy of this and see if there's anything I can share further. The tonality in the bamboo is just stunning. There isn't a shadow without detail in this file. I wanted to see what SilverEfex does with pure Monochrom files. It's pretty amazing actually.


So some processing in SilverEfex utilising the shadow detail to create an ink drawing look:
 

skimmel

Member
Hi Jono. Along with the beauty of your photography, I'm fascinated by the people and place you made images of. Where in China did you travel?
 

Brian Mosley

New member
I came back to this, it's such a pleasure working with great photography (thanks to Jono) and superb files... there are so many subtle possibilities... huge fun!

Thanks again Jono :salute:

Brian
 

davemillier

Member
Once again thanks to Jono for providing this.

Am I the only person in the world who finds luminance aliasing horrible? Surely, I can't be! I have issues with my Foveon cameras because of this, I have issues with the NEX series which makes them impossible for me to use. The Leica is not on my radar because of price but even if it cost £100, there is no way I could live with the aliasing.

Please see crop below. I've take a little excerpt from the file and marked some areas of concern. The ringed areas were not specially chosen, the whole file is like this. I simply can't understand how people can eulogise over something that looks like it is made from lego...

Sorry if this comes out as sounding harsh, it's not meant to be, I just get frustrated at this being continually overlooked in the rush to remove AA filters from the imaging world...

Comments anyone?



ps

How do people directly embed large images?
 

jonoslack

Active member
Once again thanks to Jono for providing this.

Am I the only person in the world who finds luminance aliasing horrible? Surely, I can't be! I have issues with my Foveon cameras because of this, I have issues with the NEX series which makes them impossible for me to use. The Leica is not on my radar because of price but even if it cost £100, there is no way I could live with the aliasing.

Please see crop below. I've take a little excerpt from the file and marked some areas of concern. The ringed areas were not specially chosen, the whole file is like this. I simply can't understand how people can eulogise over something that looks like it is made from lego...

Sorry if this comes out as sounding harsh, it's not meant to be, I just get frustrated at this being continually overlooked in the rush to remove AA filters from the imaging world...

Comments anyone?



ps

How do people directly embed large images?
Hi David
first - as for embedding large images - I host them elsewhere and link to them.

As far as the Aliasing is concerned - the girl's bike stem is the most obvious, at 100% on a 24" monitor you can see it quite clearly - not sure what size print that represents, but at least A0 I would have thought - something like a 36" print? and then you'd have to look at it from a few short inches; I might actually try to do this later.

What I'm saying is that it's a pixel peeper problem (at least, as far as I'm concerned it is).

All the best
 
V

Vivek

Guest
Once again thanks to Jono for providing this.

Am I the only person in the world who finds luminance aliasing horrible? Surely, I can't be! I have issues with my Foveon cameras because of this, I have issues with the NEX series which makes them impossible for me to use. The Leica is not on my radar because of price but even if it cost £100, there is no way I could live with the aliasing.

Please see crop below. I've take a little excerpt from the file and marked some areas of concern. The ringed areas were not specially chosen, the whole file is like this. I simply can't understand how people can eulogise over something that looks like it is made from lego...

Sorry if this comes out as sounding harsh, it's not meant to be, I just get frustrated at this being continually overlooked in the rush to remove AA filters from the imaging world...

Comments anyone?



ps

How do people directly embed large images?
Use the link for that image:

http://forum.getdpi.com/gallery/files/1/5/7/8/l9032361_bridge.jpg

and put it in between


so that it will display like this:



My comments about the aliasing:

Wait till you see some high contrast light images with the AA 50/2. :ROTFL:
 

Paratom

Well-known member
Once again thanks to Jono for providing this.

Am I the only person in the world who finds luminance aliasing horrible? Surely, I can't be! I have issues with my Foveon cameras because of this, I have issues with the NEX series which makes them impossible for me to use. The Leica is not on my radar because of price but even if it cost £100, there is no way I could live with the aliasing.

Please see crop below. I've take a little excerpt from the file and marked some areas of concern. The ringed areas were not specially chosen, the whole file is like this. I simply can't understand how people can eulogise over something that looks like it is made from lego...

Sorry if this comes out as sounding harsh, it's not meant to be, I just get frustrated at this being continually overlooked in the rush to remove AA filters from the imaging world...

Comments anyone?

My comment would be that I never found this to be a problem in real use. Probably I could find it in some images from the M9 or S2? But I havent searched for it. I wonder at which printsize it would show up or if it is more a theoretical problem when viewed at 100%?
What I however find to see all the time is that the non-AA-filter images from ccd sensors seem to show more microdetail and more depth, I think they see more the way I and my eyes see the world.
So for me it is comparing pluses and minuses, and so far for my taste I prefer the overall output from the non-AA CCD sensors.
But if it disturbs you thats what counts IMO- and if you see it as a problem I would not mess around with non-AA cameras in your position.
 
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V

Vivek

Guest
What I however find to see all the time is that the non-AA-filter images from ccd sensors seem to show more microdetail and more depth, I think they see more the way I and my eyes see the world.
Poetical, Tom! :thumbs:
 

Brian Mosley

New member
David, surely you could simulate an AA filter with a gaussian blur filter in PP?

With AA filter effect :


Without AA filter effect :


Personally, I would rather have the 'without' detail and add a filter in PP if necessary. I'm fairly certain the sharper image would print beautifully... especially using Qimage Ultimate.

Cheers

Brian
 
V

Vivek

Guest
Brian, The jaggies are still there with added mush in your demonstration.

There are possible hardware solutions to this problem:

1. Buy and use cheap lenses (FSU Industars, for example)well stopped down for a good measure.

2. Use custom AA filters (some manufacturers are offering these, a pity that the effects can not be seen before taking a shot due to the lack of live view).

Of course, with all this, the "micro details" that Tom points to will start to disappear and then the whole charm of a camera that offers 100% more sharpness would wear off. :(
 

Brian S

New member
Once again thanks to Jono for providing this.

Am I the only person in the world who finds luminance aliasing horrible? Sorry if this comes out as sounding harsh, it's not meant to be, I just get frustrated at this being continually overlooked in the rush to remove AA filters from the imaging world...
The problem is worse with color images as the 2x2 Bayer Pattern Mosaic filter introduces different aliasing into the RGB layers.

This problem can be solved in software using post-processing. Off-hand, the dot-pitch algorithm used by HP Laser printers introduced with the Laserjet 3 would be interesting. In cases of aliasing, the firmware used smaller dots in between the picture elements. For example: the firmware used smaller dots to fill in the jagged edges of a line running at an angle across the image being printed. It would be possible to develop a similar algorithm for detecting jagged edges in the image and to "upres" the image, or apply a local averaging filter. In the 1980s, I wrote a FORTRAN program that basically identified lines and curves in an image using Hough transforms. You could use such a program to make a mask of the thin lines and curves in an image and then selectively smooth them. The 1980s was a fun time for digital imaging.

I'm wondering if I want this camera to just relive my youth writing FORTRAN code for image processing.
 
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