About to dip my toe into Leica M system...guidance needed!

[jubbaa]

Hi all,

My first post here after visiting quite a bit during my research , I have found it a wealth of knowledge and am looking forward to participating more going forward.

I am new to Leica having been origionally inspired by Steve Huff’s website and I might need some hand holding here.

After much deliberation and research I have decided I want an M9 and a couple of lenses.

My background has been a much loved GF1 which I sold to get a Fuji x100. I find I love my cameras to be more manual and if I am honest more retro looking ( shallow - I know )

I am a hobby photographer with interest in family and friend shots, travel photography and documenting the new exotic city I find myself living in at the moment ( Shanghai ). For the most part I will probably share my images online with the family and friends and an occasional print for my walls at home. I am looking for that leica ‘look’ in my pictures, prefer colour photography , shoot occasionally indoors and love shollow depth of field . Given this background I am pretty sure I want a 35mm summicron asph , and a 50 mm summilux asph.

However I am wondering if the members think I am ‘buying too much’ and will be better off going for the cheaper pre asph models given the medium I will be using to view the pics. I am not a pixel peeper or interested in charts but it is important that the end result has that beautiful leica look. Will my untrained eye notice the difference between asph and pre asph??

It is impossible to rent to try the equipment first in China ( its also much more expensive here ) , I will be picking it up on a business trip to the states in Nov, so it is important that I make the right decision first time round.

Your guidance and thoughts will be very much appreciated.

James.

 

[JWW]

The 35mm Summicron ASPH is an excellent lens and I believe you will be happy with its performance and look. In addition, they seem to be relatively easy to find either new or used. I have used both the ASPH and the version 4 preasph and like both. The prices, though, are not much different between them for used lenses.

 

[StephenPatterson]

James, there are both Chinese and expat Leica users all over China, and I'm sure if you really wanted to try out a lens before buying a solution could be found. As a longtime Leica user who own both of the lenses you are interested in (as well as a couple of M9s) I feel the 35 Summicron ASPH and 50 Summilux ASPH would make a great two lens kit. Of course I don't really know anything about your style, so this recommendation is made with a degree of reservation, but just FYI I find that around 85% of my Leica shots are with the 35mm and 50mm focal length.

I'm currently living near Chongqing, so if you find yourself traveling in Hubei Province, or if I'm in Shanghai anytime soon, you are welcome to borrow mine. My 35 Summicron ASPH hasn't been getting much love since my 35 Summilux FLE arrived, but that's another matter.

Cheers,
Stephen

PS If budget allows I would encourage you to buy the ASPH version of both of these lenses, as you might just find yourself growing with the M9 and wanting to print instead of just post online. That's where the real fun of Leica ownership is found, when viewing A3 and larger prints.

 

[mikel]

Hi James,
My two bits-
While everyone talks about Leica lenses, the real plus for me is using a rangefinder. But not everyone likes manual focus, or not seeing what the lens sees. This, to me, is a bigger difference than any 'look' due to lenses.

If you shoot wide open enough of the time (for whatever your purpose), you may appreciate the small differences in rendering between asph lenses and others. But the differences are unlikely to make or break a photograph.

From a trying-to-be-rational perspective, I'd get into using rangefinders by spending as little as possible. Maybe borrow or buy one camera and one lens? You'll know pretty quick whether it is the right tool for you. Be wary of the hype about a look, for using a rangefinder versus slr or lcd will likely have more influence on the photographs you take than any lens "look".

But these things are not always rational, nor do they need to be.

 

[dalfrednix]

Try the 35 mm summarit which Steve Huff recommends; it's a lot of Leica lens for the money. I have one and can support Huff's claims.

 

[Paratom]

If you want f1.4 in the 50mm I recommend the 50/1.4asph.
I am sure the 35 Summicron is great but I second the 35 Summarit is a great deal as well and I even prefer the bokeh of the Summarit.

Other than that 35/50 is a valid and good choice. Personally I would question if 28/50 or even 28/75 would offer you a bit more flexibility.
35 and 50 is pretty close IMO.

 

[animefx]

I would highly recommend picking up the 35mm f/2.5 Summarit as your first Leica lens. It's one of the sharpest non-ASPH Leica lenses and has beautiful bokeh at any aperture (not distracting or harsh) The rendering is a nice balance between new and old.

I will be buying 50mm f/1.4 Summilux ASPH, but I will be keeping my 35 Summarit to go along with it.

35 Summarit pros:
- Sharp
- Pleasant bokeh
- Very, very small, doesn't need lens hood or block much of the view finder
- Somewhat affodrable for Leica
- 35mm (and 50mm) are versatile focal lengths

35 Summarit cons:
- Aperture is f/2.5, not the best for night photography unless your using an M Monochrom or buy a Leica M
- Minimum focusing distance is 3 inches further than something like the 50 Summilux ASPH
- Not "clinical" rendering, although some people prefer it not to be

Here are some samples, mostly taken with the M8, but the guy with the basketball was the M9

 

[sebastel]

hi james,
you live in SH, interested in shooting M9?
let's meet ...

my recommendation: get some used stuff in good condition. it almost does not matter what (for example, i prefer some zeiss lenses).

cheers
sebastian

 

[StephenPatterson]

+1 on the Zeiss, and also the Summarits, with one caveat...they have a way of becoming Summicrons and Summiluxes.

I really liked my Zeiss ZM lenses, but I love my 35 and 50 Summilux ASPHs.

One last piece of advice I always give new Leica people is to only buy one lens at a time, and spend the time to get to know it. Three to six months. You will be happy you did.

 

[pgmj]

I'd go for the 35 and 75 Summarits, and perhaps get a Voigtlander 50/1.5 Nokton until you know for certain that the rangefinder experience is what you want. Then investing in a 50 lux asph makes more sense.

Or just buy the 50 lux asph and no other lens

 

[edwardkaraa]

I agree with Stephen about buying one at a time. That is how I did it with my Zeiss glass, even though I had planned in advance which lenses I wanted to get and in which order.

I also think that 35/50 is a good choice. Judging from my photos, I think more than 90% are taken with these 2 combined. In fact I could live with only one lens, either 35 or 50, with no sens of deprivation

 

[jonoslack]

Lots of good advice here - I quite agree about the summarits - especially the 35mm, the only real disadvantage they have is that they don't focus as close as the summicrons (which may, or may not be relevant - the aperture difference is not).

Whilst I agree about buying one lens at a time, it's nice to have a 'kit' to start with, it's also fun to have a longer lens - possibly a 90 summarit?

Anyway - whatever you choose - I hope you love it - If you're buying Leica lenses there are a hundred ways of getting it right, and not too many of getting it wrong.

Stephen points out that summarits tend to turn into summicrons and summiluxes, but if you buy carefully, and sell sensibly, you may not lose much (or any) money in the turnaround.

all the best

 

[glenerrolrd]

While you can t go wrong with any Leica 35/50 combination ..those focal lengths are close in field of view . As most new Leica M users find ..overtime you learn to get closer . The camera really performs in the 28 -50 range .

You can never go wrong with the 50/1.4asph because it is a great lens and fast enough to never require replacing .

My picks though for a 2 lens kit would be the 28/2 summicron and the 50/2 sum micron. Both have the classic Leica rendering (look) and can be found a reasonable prices used . You should be able to find both lenses and nice used M9 for less than $10K in the USA.

 

[ced]

Jubbaa I as others in the list here also think 35/50 is not too practical as they are very close in coverage.
I love the 35f2cron my taste it is like a 50 but my 28 is also great I don't have 50 so my thinking is 35 and 75 if you are going to use it on your family, new city etc.
Otherwise go for a 28 and a 50 you don't have to have very fast lenses as the M9 has enough iso coverage capability to give great images. Enjoy whatever you choose you are in the right direction with the M9 (preferably BLACK;-))

 

[ashwinrao1]

Great advice above. Much depends on what is your preferred focal length. based on how you have described yourself, I'd consider a 28/50, 35/50, or 28/50/90 vs 35/50/90 kit. I'd recommend a 35/75 kit, but 75 has unusual framelines on the M, so I'd stay away for now.

For 35, the summarit is a great choice for all but low light, but agreed that if you can spend a tad more, the 35 cron asph is fantastic. The 35 lux FLE is a godly lens...get that if you have the big bucks, and you will be left wanting nothing more

For 50, get the 50 lux asph, and you will be set. For a more stylistic rendering, the Zeiss C-50 sonnar is great, and f/1.5... A rigid 50 'cron is a great and affordable choice, as are the more modern 'crons. If you get a modern 35 cron or summarit, the 50 'lux asph is a better fit for you, in terms of maintaining a look.

All that said, it may be good to start with 1 camera and 1 lens. A great way to do that is with the M9 and a 50, which does many things well....50 lux asph would be my first choice there...

 

[wolverine]

I have used both the asph and non-asph for each lens you desire. You like color. For me, the asph are best for color, but either will be excellent. I lean towards the asph for color. The non-asph tends to attract those who prefer B&W to prevent heavier contrast. But as others have said, you cannot go wrong either way. I agree 100% with the 28 cron asph. Just a very exceptional lens and the gap from 50 is great. The 35 asph is wonderful, too. I have not used the summarits, but I have not ever read a bad review of them. Your choices, as Jono says, are heavily in your favor whatever you do. Just to add mud to the clarity of decision, the CV 35 f/1.2 is both asph and fast. The lens gets excellent reviews, and compared to leica's, is cheap.

 

[Chuck Jones]

I'm with Roger and Ashwin on this. 28mm 'Cron, 50mm 'Lux, and 75mm 'Cron on the longer end. I'd also be honest and say that my own favorite on the M9 is the 21mm 'Lux, but it's not a lens for a new shooter and takes a long time to master.

I do believe though just owning one lens to start off with will make you a better photographer much faster than trying to master a whole kit of lenses before you really understand what your doing with the basics. Each of the Leica lenses has their own particular strengths and weaknesses, just as each choice of focal length tells a story from a different perspective. Get the basics under your belt with just one lens is what I advise all of my own students, and then add others one at a time and shoot them exclusively for a bit when you first get 'em.

 

[Godfrey]

+1

I agree wholeheartedly with the "buy one lens at a time approach" even if I'm terrible at following my own advice. What happens is that I tend to buy more than I can deal with at one time, I start using one thing and the rest sit in my drawer for a long long time.

My own preference with the M9 is for 35/50 ... I went with the Voigtländer Color Skopar 35/2.5 and Nokton 50/1.5 as I like the imaging qualities of those two lenses on the M9. Lens speed is rarely an issue for me, and both net shallow enough FoV when I want it. I like that the little 35/2.5 is so very compact and handy: it's been on the camera for three or four months now, only thing I've used in that period other than the Skink f/47 Zone Plate (for some fun and experimentation).

But you can hardly go wrong with any Leica lens. I'd not worry about it too much ... each of them is slightly different and you'll find out how to use any of them best by just buying one and doing it. You can hardly even lose money by buying one and then selling it if you prefer to try something different.

 

[Shashin]

Another way to have fun is to buy Cosina Voightlander M lenses to try out some field of views and get a handle on what you want. They are not really expensive and you will not lose much in the experiment. I have found that focal length is really a personal choice and it does not matter how good the optics are if you don't enjoy shooting with it.

BTW, there are also a host of other non-Leica lenses that can be very nice.

As far as the one camera, one lens thing, I find that it really does not work for everyone (not even HCB who did use more than one focal length and cropped his images). While I am perfectly happy to shoot that way with also the added constrain that I do not crop in post, it does not really work for everybody. If photography is a hobby, it should be fun and simply follow what you would like to do. Eventually you will sort out your style.

 

[Chuck Jones]

Hmmmm... I didn't know HCB personally, but have a friend who knew him pretty well. He told me HCB shot only his old 50mm. Doesn't really matter though, with or without cropping HCB is one of the best that ever lived at composition.