douglasf13
New member
I like using the 35 Cron IV for environmental portraits, and the 90/2.8 tele-elmarit for tighter portraits...although I pretty much like those two lenses for everything.
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Looking for Leica lenses for portraits recommendations
- Thread starter dmabry2010
- Start date
John Black
Active member
Agree with Ashwin's assessment of the Zeiss 85/2 ZM being a bit of a one trick pony. The rareness of this lens has over-hyped its actual performance. Given $3k'ish price tag, it grossly over priced. Ashwin has been giving my Canon 100/2 a spin. These lenses can be found in good condition for $400-500. It is easily as sharp at F2 as the 85/2 ZM was, and the Canon has better bokeh. The catch-22 with Canon 100/2 is framing with 90mm or 135mm framelines, and "nailing" focus at F2 can be tricky (though, I've had very good luck with it). Upcoming M-240 will help resolve, or at least mitigate those challenges. Both pictures were taken on overcast days, so the bokeh would have "popped" more if there was a sunny, contrasty background.
A tightly framed shot @ F2 showing the bokeh; taken with the M9.
A 3/4 portrait taken at F2 or F2.8 with the Leica M9.
A tightly framed shot @ F2 showing the bokeh; taken with the M9.
A 3/4 portrait taken at F2 or F2.8 with the Leica M9.
V
Vivek
Guest
I considered the collapsible Elmar (the chrome one is much heavier though) but bought a 3 element 90/4, expressly for the (anticipated) MM.
I'll put in a plug for the pre-ASPH Lux 50 E46 and the Noctilux f/1. I prefer both at f/1.4 - f/2 depending on the DOF needed. As others have said though, a lot depends on your style of shooting and the degree of sharpness you prefer. I think that the Summicron 90AA takes great portraits if you are a little further away from the subject.
Interesting to read different people's take on doing portraits.
Personally, I select the focal length and character of a lens based on the person I am shooting ... what is the shape or geometry of their face, how symmetrical are their features, what is their most interesting feature, where are we shooting, is it an environmental portrait, what light are we working in, it is a revealing portrait, or one intended to flatter?
Example: for a heavier set woman you often see their own attention to their eyes, so it often means a bit wider lens shot a bit more down on the face which slims the face and emphasizes their eyes. For a narrow face it may mean a longer lens to compact the perspective. A weak chin, or larger nose do not need to be more revealed by choice of focal length, etc.
While I have done many "casual" portraits with an M camera, for the above reasons, a rangefinder isn't my first choice for portraits because I cannot see the actual effect that a focal length has on the subject. The very strength of a traditional rangefinder for eliminating lens effects and concentrating on what the image is about, is its weakness here.
I'd also caution regarding the fast aperture, "creamy dreamy" M lenses as being potential "soft nose", "one eye in, one eye just barely out" optics ... or the second person in a photo being "almost" in focus ... as I have instructed my second shooters at weddings, "That fast lens of yours actually stops down, and should be for some images." As I often see demonstrated in M portraits, again, you cannot see that plane of focus.
It seems the new M will elevate use of a rangefinder for portrait work ... the EVF/LCD will work to show what you are getting real time, rather than after the fact, and focus peaking will help reveal the whole plane of focus ... or you could just use a decent DSLR and save $8,000+:shocked:
-Marc
Personally, I select the focal length and character of a lens based on the person I am shooting ... what is the shape or geometry of their face, how symmetrical are their features, what is their most interesting feature, where are we shooting, is it an environmental portrait, what light are we working in, it is a revealing portrait, or one intended to flatter?
Example: for a heavier set woman you often see their own attention to their eyes, so it often means a bit wider lens shot a bit more down on the face which slims the face and emphasizes their eyes. For a narrow face it may mean a longer lens to compact the perspective. A weak chin, or larger nose do not need to be more revealed by choice of focal length, etc.
While I have done many "casual" portraits with an M camera, for the above reasons, a rangefinder isn't my first choice for portraits because I cannot see the actual effect that a focal length has on the subject. The very strength of a traditional rangefinder for eliminating lens effects and concentrating on what the image is about, is its weakness here.
I'd also caution regarding the fast aperture, "creamy dreamy" M lenses as being potential "soft nose", "one eye in, one eye just barely out" optics ... or the second person in a photo being "almost" in focus ... as I have instructed my second shooters at weddings, "That fast lens of yours actually stops down, and should be for some images." As I often see demonstrated in M portraits, again, you cannot see that plane of focus.
It seems the new M will elevate use of a rangefinder for portrait work ... the EVF/LCD will work to show what you are getting real time, rather than after the fact, and focus peaking will help reveal the whole plane of focus ... or you could just use a decent DSLR and save $8,000+:shocked:
-Marc
V
Vivek
Guest
I think the OP's question concerns only the "casual portraits". The "effect" comes as a surprise when the film is developed or the image is seen on the LCD. "Delayed gratification" that "Horsermage" referred to, is in play.
The new M might be quite disappointing in that respect. Though, it also creates new opportunities for a Noctilux 90mm lens.
Marc,
I guess it is also a bit about the preference. Is the goal to produce a more composed image most pleasing for the customer or is it more about intuively catching the moment. Even though the first doesnt neccesarly mean that it is not intuitive.
Marc Wrote>>>"I'd also caution regarding the fast aperture, "creamy dreamy" M lenses as being potential "soft nose", "one eye in, one eye just barely out" optics ... or the second person in a photo being "almost" in focus ... as I have instructed my second shooters at weddings, "That fast lens of yours actually stops down, and should be for some images."<<<
The only thing I'd comment on with regards to your excellent post is for myself, it's not so much that the often touted "portrait" lenses such as the 75mm Lux, 90mm Pre AA, Noct f1 (and many others not mentioned) are sort of gentler, softer and for some dreamy wide open...but when stopped down a couple stops as Marc aptly suggested, they retain their many of their desirable characteristcs especially for portraits, without becoming bitingly sharp which for some subjects would become unflattering and even possibly over the top. Many of these same lenses though when stopped down further can often stand with the best of them in terms of resolution.
Dave (D&A)
The only thing I'd comment on with regards to your excellent post is for myself, it's not so much that the often touted "portrait" lenses such as the 75mm Lux, 90mm Pre AA, Noct f1 (and many others not mentioned) are sort of gentler, softer and for some dreamy wide open...but when stopped down a couple stops as Marc aptly suggested, they retain their many of their desirable characteristcs especially for portraits, without becoming bitingly sharp which for some subjects would become unflattering and even possibly over the top. Many of these same lenses though when stopped down further can often stand with the best of them in terms of resolution.
Dave (D&A)
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You are right, shooting to get an image with some basic portrait elements intact doesn't mean it is forced, posed or anything of the sort. The subject looking at the camera doesn't always mean it was formally posed.
The only point I was trying to share is that there isn't one "portrait" focal length, f-stop or set of optical characteristics ... only a good one for the subject at hand ... one that captures the character of that subject, or some other subjective/creative pictorial aspect or something that reveals something about the subject and/or the place/time you were shooting.
It seems to me that if there isn't some intent going in, even if suddenly recognized at the moment, it is a snap-shot and a $8,000 camera with $15,000 set of lenses is a tad overkill. However, I guess you are right, it's all about preference.
Here is a cross section of "casual" portraits ... some candid, some more aware, all were spontaneous.
The B&W shot of my wife and doggie was with the M9 and Nocti 0.95 @ f/8 which preserved some sense of where we were. The painted faced girl was a 90/2.8 on a M8. The Santa as engineer was film and 50/1.4. The woman with her baby was a Canon 85/1.2 wide open ... but I stepped back until both faces were in focus and cropped afterwards.
In contrast, the B&W of the elegant flea market lady searching for treasures was film and a M21/2.8 ASPH using hyper-focal distance focusing.
-Marc
Dr Owl
New member
May I emerge from the shadows and bump this thread back up to the top? ... since I too want to buy a portrait lens.
I'm a long-standing Nikon user in the process of becoming a Leica user as well ... because I want to digitize my picture taking ... preferably to taking three types of picture on one camera. At present, I use an F3 for walkabout; a Rolleiflex TLR for portraits; and an F5 for close-ups. What I have been seeking is a digital camera that is as solidly built as these ... but no heavier than the F3.
The Nikon D800 ticks many of the boxes; but it is more than 200g too heavy for my comfort on walkabout. So I visited Red Dot Cameras, where I found I loved the handling of M-system Leicas, and placed an order for an M240. I haven't received the camera yet, of course ... at the present rate, I sha'n't receive it until December!
I therefore have a last summer of film photography during which I shall buy an initial Leica kit of just two lenses: one for walkabout, one for portraits. For nearly the last 15 years, my primary walkabout lens has been an AI-Nikkor 50mm f/1.4, so it wasn't difficult to decide to buy a secondhand 50mm Summilux; which I have done.
The need to choose a portrait lens brings me here.
By portrait lens, I mean the traditional 75mm to 90mm range. The Summilux will do nicely for pictures of people in context, as will a future wide-angle once I've got the hang of the first two lenses. I've searched the last year of the forum (particularly this thread) for positive recommendations of specific lenses, and there are two leading recommendations, with 7 supporters each:
* the 90mm Elmarit-M, used wide open at f/2.8 for softness, and
* the Zeiss ZM 85mm f/2.
In third place, with 4 supporters, comes
* the 75mm Summilux.
Not the APO-Summicron-M ASPH. That surprised me a bit: it has an excellent reputation ... is it just too clinical for portrait work?
75mm seems rather close to 50mm for my second lens of two. And I was thinking of sticking with a Leica lens while I am learning the handling of a new camera. So I am minded to search for a secondhand 90mm Elmarit-M.
Is that a sensible way forward?
Later,
Dr Owl
I'm a long-standing Nikon user in the process of becoming a Leica user as well ... because I want to digitize my picture taking ... preferably to taking three types of picture on one camera. At present, I use an F3 for walkabout; a Rolleiflex TLR for portraits; and an F5 for close-ups. What I have been seeking is a digital camera that is as solidly built as these ... but no heavier than the F3.
The Nikon D800 ticks many of the boxes; but it is more than 200g too heavy for my comfort on walkabout. So I visited Red Dot Cameras, where I found I loved the handling of M-system Leicas, and placed an order for an M240. I haven't received the camera yet, of course ... at the present rate, I sha'n't receive it until December!
I therefore have a last summer of film photography during which I shall buy an initial Leica kit of just two lenses: one for walkabout, one for portraits. For nearly the last 15 years, my primary walkabout lens has been an AI-Nikkor 50mm f/1.4, so it wasn't difficult to decide to buy a secondhand 50mm Summilux; which I have done.
The need to choose a portrait lens brings me here.
By portrait lens, I mean the traditional 75mm to 90mm range. The Summilux will do nicely for pictures of people in context, as will a future wide-angle once I've got the hang of the first two lenses. I've searched the last year of the forum (particularly this thread) for positive recommendations of specific lenses, and there are two leading recommendations, with 7 supporters each:
* the 90mm Elmarit-M, used wide open at f/2.8 for softness, and
* the Zeiss ZM 85mm f/2.
In third place, with 4 supporters, comes
* the 75mm Summilux.
Not the APO-Summicron-M ASPH. That surprised me a bit: it has an excellent reputation ... is it just too clinical for portrait work?
75mm seems rather close to 50mm for my second lens of two. And I was thinking of sticking with a Leica lens while I am learning the handling of a new camera. So I am minded to search for a secondhand 90mm Elmarit-M.
Is that a sensible way forward?
Later,
Dr Owl
thrice
Active member
75mm is very close to 50mm. The 75mm APO-Summicron was disliked (very vocally) by Luka on FM forums which might have led to an internet stigma that it is boring or clinical.
I sold mine because it is so close to 50mm, not because it wasn't exemplary. It also focuses to 0.7m.
I sold mine because it is so close to 50mm, not because it wasn't exemplary. It also focuses to 0.7m.
glenerrolrd
Workshop Member
On the M I find the 75 s too difficult to frame properly at close distances . I typically use the 90/2.8 EM (46e) and one of the 50 s for environmental /casual portraits .
With the new M I might go with the 75 summilux and use the EVF ..but haven t tried it yet .
While the M provides great IQ ..I much prefer a DSLR because you can see so much better ..and I am fine with some softness if I can get the eyes sharp .
With the new M I might go with the 75 summilux and use the EVF ..but haven t tried it yet .
While the M provides great IQ ..I much prefer a DSLR because you can see so much better ..and I am fine with some softness if I can get the eyes sharp .
scott kirkpatrick
Well-known member
I'm reading "Portrait" in this thread to mean a head and shoulders view with background elements largely out of focus. The combination that has worked best for me for this kind of shot is the old Nikon 105/2.5 (on a Nikon F, long gone now). The 75 APO Summicron on an M8 produced similar pleasing results. Recently, while waiting for my 2014 M240 to arrive some lucky day, I've been playing with an Olympus M43 Pen-lite E-PL5, with 45/1.8 and a 75/1.8 of very high quality and modest cost. The 75 (effectively 150), in particular, allows everything from isolating a subject plane from both foreground and background elements to combining elements over a moderate depth range. Since the 240 will permit using moderate teles from Leica R and other places, why not purchase a 90 Summarit, planning to sell it for your dream lens when all the options are opened? The 75 and 90 Summiluxes are rare now, and they are beasts, heavy, stiff, and likely to be left at home...
scott
scott
innerimager
Member
The 75 lux has always been my favorite portrait lens. I like that working distance, intimate enough and distant enough. For whatever reason I have no problems focusing at any aperture, with a better focus hit rate than the f1 noctilux at 1.4 on the 75. Having said that, I generally shoot at F2-4. The 75 lux is two different lenses. At 1.4 it has that glow while maintaining enough sharpness within the scant DOF, at 2 it's getting more like the 75 cron, and definitely by f4 it's contrast and sharpness is superb. It has a more gentle tonal gradation than the 75cron in my experience. It's bokeh is to die for.
CharlesK
New member
For portraits my favorite lenses are 75 Lux and 50 Nocti f/1.0, followed closely behind by 50 Lux Asph. I also have the 75 Cron Apo, which is as suggested is too sharp, and the 90 Cron Apo, which I find excellent, but the framing and nailing focus is harder IMO.
50 Nocti f/1.0 @ f/1.0
75 Lux
50 Nocti f/1.0 @ f/1.0
75 Lux