Today should have been a good day but....

[Alun]

I took delivery of a brand new Leica M9 yesterday evening together with a Summicron 35m lens. The Leica has been a camera I've lusted after for many years and so it should have been a good day but I'm feeling a little deflated.

I took it's first pictures this morning (nothing special, just a shot out of the office window) and it was obvious straight away that there were three large dust bunnies in the blue sky. I have to admit that I was a bit suspicious last night when I opened the box to find the inner slightly wear-marked, the plastic wrapper on the body looked like I wasn't the first (or even the second) person who had handled the camera and the exposure compensation in the main menu was set to +1.

The camera numbering of pictures shows the last one I took was LI000025 yet when I dropped the file into Opanda, the metadata says that it is the 376 shot from this camera?

I took the attached pictures at f/16 with the lens defocussed so it can only be sensor dust. I have checked the store listing and there's no mention of it being a used or demo camera - I have taken screen shots just in case. This website has downsized the files but if I view the original JPEGS straight from the camera at 100% there must be c. 30 dust bunnies of varying darkness on the file.

I have emailed the store (an official Leica dealer) with my findings and will wait for their response but I just wondered what other thought about this? Is 376 activations typical of a new camera body (thats been tested in the factory)? Has anyone else found dust on the sensor in a new camera?

 

[weinschela]

I would insist that they take it back in exchange for another. The exposure compensation setting and the packaging and the dirt are not acceptable in what is supposed to be a new camera. Maybe one of those issues is, but not all three. They say it was probably a demo.

 

[ramosa]

Return immediately.

 

[Alun]

Thanks for the replies

I intend to return it as soon as I see how the company (I won't shout them out just yet) want to play it - nice and friendly or make it difficult.

just in case, does Leica ever get involved in disputes where a dealer is being less than scrupulous?

 

[monza]

No, Leica will not get involved.

Did they include new warranty papers?

 

[Alun]

Yes, all the papers are there - it was sold (and bought by me) as a brand new camera but its obviously not - probably a demo but that should have been highlighted in the ad and it should have been in usable condition (no dust bunnies!).

 

[monza]

Hmm...could have been an oversight, but if they are honorable, should not be a problem rectifying it. If everything is in otherwise working order, maybe they'll give you a better price.

 

[edwardkaraa]

My brand new M9 had 122 actuations as checked by M9info but 0 actuations in the folder, no signs of use whatsoever, and a couple of oil spots which are normal for the shutter mechanism.

By the way, I never buy cameras and lenses from Europe and USA because of the 14 days return policy, no questions asked. I buy usually my lenses from an online retailer in Germany who does not keep stock. He will order directly from the factory. My cameras I buy them locally and will check everything thouroughly at the store prior to committing.

 

[Don Libby]

Best of luck and please update as you get more information. I had a M9 a couple years ago and it was a great camera.

Don

 

[ced]

I would try to get a better price and a clean up free of charge.
Good luck with whatever option you decide on.

 

[edwardkaraa]

Yes, all the papers are there - it was sold (and bought by me) as a brand new camera but its obviously not - probably a demo but that should have been highlighted in the ad and it should have been in usable condition (no dust bunnies!).

If it was a demo, I'm sure it would show much more than 372 shots. the problem is, you can buy any camera from any supplier, use/test it for 14 days, then return it to the supplier with the guarantee papers unfilled, and you will get a refund. Someone must have used this privilege on the camera you acquired. On this and other Leica forums, there are always stories about someone buying an expensive lens, not liking the results, and then returning the item. Only a couple of days ago, someone posted photos with the 50 AA but decided to return the lens. I am sure the next buyer will get a very expensive used lens sold to him as new. I think there is a moral dilemma here. Difficult to answer who is right.

 

[Alun]

It gets (slightly) worse. Apparently the Unique image ID that Opanda shows is in hex format so the actual shutter count is 886!

 

[dude163]

Yes the data is in Hex , 886 is unacceptable IMO, Id return it , unless they give you a free CLA and knock off a substantial chunk of the price

 

[docmoore]

I have hesitated to comment on this thread but....

You have the object of your long desire and it turns out you are its second love...IF you are correct that others have been using it. Highly likely if the shutter count is correct.

Otherwise, what defects appear on the camera?

If the lens mount is clear no scratches on the screen or body and it functions appropriately you may not gain a lot in getting a new camera...no way to know if the next new camera may not malfunction the day after your warranty expires....

I would suggest that you slow down look at the camera and decide if it works for you...not as an object of desire but as a camera you can shoot with abandon, learn a lot about RF photography and in the end capture all those moments that will supercede the importance of its acquisition.

New camera would look like this after a short period of time...dirty sensor, a bit of wear....

My take would be to notify the dealer that the rose seems a bit dusted and then to trust Solms to make any problem right....find another dealer for the future but if this camera is functioning correctly at 800 shutter actuations more than likely it will at 10,000.....your new purchase was for two things...and object of desire and a warranty. Seems you have both.

My first M body was purchased 31 years ago....I will probably have a few more before I am called home.

Reminds me of Sheldon Vanauken's book A Severe Mercy....he and his wife purchased a new MG car...took a small hammer out to it and both took a swing at the bumper so they could never blame the other for the first dent....(p. 33).

I would like you be unhappy about the discovery of 800 actuations and a dirty sensor...this has happened to may a couple of times and subsequently I have purchased demo models as I realized that if the camera is under warranty from Solms I have a fall-back. My Leica S2-P was a demo and IS one of the best cameras I have ever owned.

The short version of this is if you are happy with the output of the M9 in you possession there is nothing to guarantee that a (NEW) M9 will do as well or be less problematic over the term that you own it. I am aware that this flies in the face of all the other posts but a sober reflection of what you gain by returning the camera may be worth you while.

Best luck with whatever course you choose....

Bob

 

[Shashin]

Used cameras at new prices...

Not thinking that is going to make customers happy. But what does an M9 cost anyway?

 

[docmoore]

Not sure I would define this as a used camera....

But if the dealer is approachable I would probably hit him or her up for an extended one year warranty.....290 Euro is an inexpensive way for him to keep a customer.....

Bob

 

[edwardkaraa]

It happened to me both ways before. I have purchased a new lens from a reputable online vendor, and upon receipt realized that while practically new, it showed signs that it has been "tried" by someone else previously. The signs are unmistakable, slightly worn box, slight marks on the lens mount, barrel... etc. Nothing that I wouldn't cause myself in one week of ownership, but still for the principle I contacted the vendor, and they gave me a substantial discount on my next purchase. The same lens turned out to be front focusing later on. It was returned to Zeiss for calibration and cost me quite a bit of extra expenses, but to be fair, another lens that I received directly from Oberkochen, also front focused, and cost me the same to have it adjusted under warranty.

On the other hand, I have bought another lens from another supplier, and was not happy with the wide open performance. They sent me another copy to compare it to, and behaved actually worse. The vendor said it was within this lens acceptable performance. I disagreed, and returned both for a refund. Now I am sure both lenses were subsequently sold as new to other clients. I was very careful not to cause any marks, but the lenses have been mounted on my camera at least 10 times each to do the comparisons. Not sure if they still can be considered as new, but certainly as a buyer, I will be unhappy if I pay the full price for a new lens that has been tested by another client earlier and found below specs.

 

[Shashin]

Not sure if they still can be considered as new, but certainly as a buyer, I will be unhappy if I pay the full price for a new lens that has been tested by another client earlier and found below specs.

To be fair, the wide open performance was found to be under what you personally considered acceptable. That has nothing to do with specifications.

 

[edwardkaraa]

To be fair, the wide open performance was found to be under what you personally considered acceptable. That has nothing to do with specifications.

True, but I got two lenses to compare and one was way worse than the other, and both were judged as within specs by the vendor, after inspecting my test shots.

 

[Leigh]

When vendors offer 14-day no-questions-asked returns, somebody is going to receive those returns as new products. The vendor is certainly not going to throw them out, or sell them as used.

- Leigh