Mike Woods
New member
M11 testing already, Jono???!!!:wtf::ROTFL:I don't even know what colour it's going to be - . . . . . and we're off to China in 10 days :wtf:
Have a great trip!
Mike
The GetDPI Photography Forum
Great to see you here. Join our insightful photographic forum today and start tapping into a huge wealth of photographic knowledge. Completing our simple registration process will allow you to gain access to exclusive content, add your own topics and posts, share your work and connect with other members through your own private inbox! And don’t forget to say hi!
YES!
- Thread starter algrove
- Start date
Have a great trip!
Mike
jonoslack
Active member
HI Mike
Actually the M12
together with the new M mount 12-200 zoom.oke:We're off to spend some time with Sim (our son). We are aiming to have some fun :chug:
Well start off at Hangzhou, and then the idea is to go to Jiuzhaigou for a few days.:bugeyes:
all the best
Too digital today means that it has higher quality than can be achieved with film.Yes, what does "too digital" mean? I wonder myself. I never find myself saying "too filmic."
Anyway, the risk is that the harder I look, the more likely I will see exactly what I want to see and not what's there.
-bob
Thanks for the information. Can you try to reduce the jpeg saturation or any other setting, just to see how it handles unprocessed files?
edwardkaraa
New member
My "too digital" comment about the M files is in relation to my earlier comments about the M9 files being almost organic. I visited yesterday the S2 image thread, it was a big mistake. I will never ever go there again. If you want to see how the M files should have looked like, this is the place to go.
Yes, the 37.7MP CCD files do look good don't they. I guess that's why I just can't part with my P45+ yet.
Do not you feel after some time experienced PP and M users will evolve where we actually like what we see they have done? I wait for the day that those finished images look organic M9 like too. Or will we just get used to the CMOS look?
robertwright
New member
well these are actually more promising than anything I have seen in the sense that you can shoot in very bad mixed lighting at high iso and get clean neutral colours. Sort of what the M is about-reportage, available light. At low Iso any camera can make lovely files.
Conversely what I have seen (limited obviously) is that in bright sun skin gets too pink- which is an ir thing is it not? It's been those pics that have made me think that Leica again paid insufficient attention to ir sensitivity.
Overall it seems they are moving towards the middle of the market with the move to cmos- as much as I liked the rendering of the M8 ccd on some subjects it never really got skin correct. And while the M9 was the camera the 8 should have been its underpowered processor and ccd issues (again) said never again to me.
It's ironic to me that now the M is what the M9 should have been in terms of the digital part- decent processor, decent screen, quiet shutter, and good usable high iso, but still we are talking about skin, Ir etc?
Conversely what I have seen (limited obviously) is that in bright sun skin gets too pink- which is an ir thing is it not? It's been those pics that have made me think that Leica again paid insufficient attention to ir sensitivity.
Overall it seems they are moving towards the middle of the market with the move to cmos- as much as I liked the rendering of the M8 ccd on some subjects it never really got skin correct. And while the M9 was the camera the 8 should have been its underpowered processor and ccd issues (again) said never again to me.
It's ironic to me that now the M is what the M9 should have been in terms of the digital part- decent processor, decent screen, quiet shutter, and good usable high iso, but still we are talking about skin, Ir etc?
iiiNelson
Well-known member
My personal view is that in my real world shooting I RARELY have ANY issues with the image quality with the M9 with my uses. I think a lot of people chatter way too much about clinical "perfection" (read: scientific and quantitative perfection) yet some of these people rarely ever take pictures or own a Leica for that matter. Who cares how much distortion a lens has if it can be used to make meaningful photos to the photographer?
What I think Leica has done is deliver a modern camera to the masses that is very modern camera (and good for them) that is technically more perfect on a graph yet is more "sterile" in someways due to the "perfection." It's a trend that many have been complaining about with some of the more modern lenses and a constant argument with the rendering of the newer lenses versus Mandler lenses. Both are great IMO but for different reasons. I think it's the same with this camera - the electronics are better.
I still prefer my M9 honestly (based on the images I'm seeing) despite being inferior and I'm actually leaning towards skipping this generation and just grabbing a MM (which may change with improved firmware/ profiles.) The new M is technically a much better camera but I'm not as moved from what I'm seeing overall as say shots I see with the M9 or MM.
edwardkaraa
New member
I think we will just get used to the new CMOS look
Afterall it's necessary to get LV and video. So we better live with it.
I just hope Leica will upgrade the ME in the future with a CCD sensor, but I know that would be almost impossible.
douglasf13
New member
Agreed. I don't shoot for clients anymore, so my M9 is strictly a personal camera, and I don't have to worry about someone else's expectations of file quality. I'm often happy with the gritty detail that I get pushing to ISO 5000+ with the M9.
If I ever start questioning too much grain/noise, I just pick up my copy of Rivages from Harry Gruyaert and remember that beautifully smooth and clean images may not always be the goal in fine art.
When I used to work for a somewhat well known, fine art photographer, we'd make prints and lightboxes that were 8+ feet across from 6x6, 400 speed film pushed several stops. The grain was as large as golf balls, and those huge prints and lightboxes sold for relatively large amounts of money. People always commented on how great the large grain looked. Go figure.
While obviously a bit of a stretch, I see moving from the M9 to the M as a bit like moving from slide film to negative film, which may or may not be necessary for some shooters. The electronics and hardware improvements of the new M are the more interesting part, to me.
tashley
Subscriber Member
Good idea! I am grinning, rolling on the floor laughing, and wearing sunglasses.
Wink.
@HiredArm and douglasf13-
Well put by both. I especially perked up at the mention of Mandler versus clinical look (I like both at different times) and the fact that M9 files are terrific. Oh, yes. Who needs more than that?
My problem-I went to Photokina handled and used the M for far too long and decided to order one on the spot. I think the R glass usage is what truly swayed me in getting the second mortgage in favor of Leica even though the SD barn door was glued shut! As they say, the rest is history.
To me Mandler glass is very special on the MM, especially the 50 f1.0. I also very much like the 40/2.0 on the MM. The detail rendered by the APO 50 on the MM is exceptional, but maybe in a different hard to state way for me, if you get my drift. But nevertheless, so far those ar my three favorite lenses of the 50 variety. Next I will look to the 35 variety to how I like the rendering and later to the 75 variety.
I prefer to shoot for myself rather than do tests, but when the weather is cold what's a couple hours in front of the monitor and then making a few prints.
Well put by both. I especially perked up at the mention of Mandler versus clinical look (I like both at different times) and the fact that M9 files are terrific. Oh, yes. Who needs more than that?
My problem-I went to Photokina handled and used the M for far too long and decided to order one on the spot. I think the R glass usage is what truly swayed me in getting the second mortgage in favor of Leica even though the SD barn door was glued shut! As they say, the rest is history.
To me Mandler glass is very special on the MM, especially the 50 f1.0. I also very much like the 40/2.0 on the MM. The detail rendered by the APO 50 on the MM is exceptional, but maybe in a different hard to state way for me, if you get my drift. But nevertheless, so far those ar my three favorite lenses of the 50 variety. Next I will look to the 35 variety to how I like the rendering and later to the 75 variety.
I prefer to shoot for myself rather than do tests, but when the weather is cold what's a couple hours in front of the monitor and then making a few prints.
contrelamontre
Member
Douglas: Surely somewhat OT here, but hopefully not being lost in all that noise: that's a truly worthwhile reference! :thumbs:
Double Negative
Not Available
Wake me up when the Type 241 is here. 'Til then, I'm shooting my M9.
iiiNelson
Well-known member
Well I think that Leica will eventually get it right and I'm remaining optimistic still. To be honest I wasn't super impressed with most of what I saw from the S2 or the MM in the beginning. They eventually got it right or people got better at creating a better digital formula to give that "Leica look" that people expect given how much we pay for the pixie's to dust our pictures with awesome. It's winter time in the N. Hemisphere still so I'm just going to assume that they're hibernating but come spring/ summer we may start to see the magic.Wake me up when the Type 241 is here. 'Til then, I'm shooting my M9.
Hey HiredArm-What's your take on the RX-1? I ask because I see you have 2 Sony's.
iiiNelson
Well-known member
It's a good camera that gives good results but it's too expensive of an "investment" for me as it's (along with most larger sensor single focal length cameras) too limiting FOR ME. There are those who love it and I've seen great results with it for sure. The sensor seems to be world class for that application. The lens seems to work/ render really well. That being said I'd rather use the ~$3500 for body, EVF, and accessories toward more M stuff personally. That's kinda my take on the X2, X100, and the Sigma cameras too though.
As for my Sony stuff - It's well documented that my A77 kit is up for sale and It'll be on the B&S forum by the end of the week most likely. It's a great camera and system but I don't use it enough to justify the initial expense and I'm trying to consolidate everything most down to one main system (Leica M.) So the A77 kit will go and I will most like keep the mirror less stuff for adapted M lenses.
iiiNelson
Well-known member
Thanks I know I will take some loss on it but I rarely use it to be honest and I probably should've just saved the money and put it towards M stuff.
You know I tend to agree it is better than nothing, but a bit on the slim side. My hand could get tired carrying it that way. I will get a grip due to that.
Got home late today so only after dinner could I head out, but at least the battery was fully charged by then. Tried a 180/2.8 R and I am pleased, although I must read the manual now. It's a guy thing.