How many of the M9 shooters are skipping M240

[nowherean]

I've been shooting with the M9 for 2+ years, and my photography is mostly travel-inspired. Been really looking forward to M240 (especially live view for landscape photography) But now that I'm on-line somehow I'm not digging the look of 240 files. Do you think the color issues will be resolved with WB firmware update, or could it be a sensor issue all together?

 

[Gary Clennan]

This will (mostly) be resolved via firmware update.

 

[photomeme]

Dealer offered me one about 3 weeks ago, almost immediately. Skipped it. I'll wait another 18 to 24 months for the next Leica, likely to offer 36 mp (M360) and a much better color from the sensor + array. Meanwhile enjoying superior image quality with an mm and m9p as color + backup.

Having played a bit with the ergonomically awkward M, I remain firmly convinced that I made the right call. I dislike the samples and suspect a metamerism issue that won't be resolved. Don't take seriously claims that metamerism can be addressed by a white balance adjustment or that a profile or firmware fix is coming, they're from folks who don't understand metamerism. A wide swathe of technically inclined users have concluded this, it's at least a minority consensus at this point, even if all but a handful are reticent to talk about it.

Regardless of these difficult IQ factors, on other more easily evaluated points, the m240 is too marginally improved to consider this a meaningful upgrade if you already own an m9. 1.3 iso bump, DR better only on the margins, these might be a factor in about 5% of my shots.

The new electronics? I'd go to my Nikons for that ... which do it all with a feel 5 years more advanced than the M.

BTW, my dealer already has a list for the next color leica.

 

[retow]

I`m not interested in the improved versatility of the M. If the next generation of the M-E would include the M`s sensor, buffer/write time and lcd screen I will consider an upgrade in 2-3 years time. But my M9 is still going strong.

 

[250swb]

I couldn't promise anything, but think I'm going to skip it. The colour 'issues' don't bother me, I can sort that out in ACR for myself, but the general bloat of the camera over my M9 is a downside with too few upsides. To make the most of the M240's new features so many things need to be added, like EVF, lens adapters etc, that it ends up as big as a Canon but with fewer useful functions (like sophisticated metering, auto focus, high ISO, etc.).

The M240 will be a giggle for photographers who have never used Live View, but it is all a bit of a yawn if you've had a small m43 camera in the past few years and seen how it can be implemented properly. Meanwhile the M9 is still smallish, still working, and is still productive and capable of outstanding photography. Indeed the M9 shouldn't be compared with the M240, it is a very different camera in ethos, and possibly the last in the line of simple no nonsense Leica's.

Steve

 

[glenerrolrd]

I am delaying my transition to the new M . Really I should have known better what to expect having gone thru the introduction of the M8,M9 and S2 . I had a new M briefly out of the 2nd batch in the USA and returned it after a day because the RF was off . I ve been thru the it will be faster to send it for service than to get a new one stuff with Leica before .

I was able to do one decent test on the color with a passport color checker using both the M9 and D800E/R lenses as comparisons . The differences are obvious and straightforward. The new M out of the camera produces a warmer file with a greenish bias compared to the m9 which favors a bluish magenta bias . The new M has substantially greater color saturation and a much improved DR . The new M has a very warm AWB . These differences can off course be addressed with firmware,camera profiling and raw development presets . The issue at this stage is that you need to comfortable making these adjustments primarily by eye to fit you specific requirements .

Next we have the typical recall (faulty camera lugs) on cameras produced before 4/5 that will require a scheduled trip to Solms (only) and a loss of the camera for a minimum 3 weeks (if you are in the USA) .

This by no means should indicate that the new M will not be a great next generation M . The S2 files were impossible for many of us a full 6 months after the first bodies were out . But the final product was superb .

Right now the camera just isn t ready.....when it is I will complete the upgrade . They might even have batteries by then?

 

[edwardkaraa]

I am not skipping, just waiting. In the digital world, patience is a virtue. I never buy a camera that is on waiting list. I will buy the M when there will be at least 2-3 copies at the local dealer. In case one body is faulty I can exchange it immediately not send it back to Leica. When I bought the M9 it developed a fault with the shutter display in the VF overnight, but I exchanged it the next day with a new body. I expect the M to become available in stock by end of 2014. In the meanwhile I will enjoy the M9.

 

[fotografz]

Skipping this one for now, even though I sold my M9P in anticipation of the M240. My MM will suffice for rangefinder work, and the S2 or Sony A900/A99 can cover color needs in the interim.

The color issues may or may not be hardware related, and until that is resolved the M240 is off the shopping list. The skin tones in particular are disconcerting, and I had expected a bit better higher ISO performance from a M with a CMOS sensor. Not being able to mag scroll in LV puts me off a bit, but I could live with it if the color is fixed.

However, A lot of pretty experienced folks have been working with the M files for some time now, and they still look off to me.

So, patience is a virtue now more than ever. If I have to wait for the next M camera, I'll get a dinky Sony NEX 7 for under $1K and use the M lenses on it. Not the same thing as a M9, but will do in a pinch for the occasional color shot while working with the MM (after I got the MM, my M9P rarely came out of the bag anyway).

-Marc

 

[algrove]

I find this an interesting thread. It lets all the nay sayers comment on why they did not get it.

Roger's comment has credibility to me as he knows color, has extensive experience with color, owns current color digital cameras AND tried the M.

I will keep mine even though it will go to Solms for the damn lug nut issue. It's just that I must find the time between planned trips to send it in. Since I mostly use tripod, other than initial shooting with a Gordy's strap, my lugs seem tight, but it must be sent it for a check out.

OK, I'm a besta tester without compensation, but so far I am having so much fun being able to use my R lenses I could care less. I have posted many early shots that I must say, where some skin tones were very red, but one shot that comes to mind was around Spring break time where I wonder if the back of the guys neck was just not sun burned. It's the shot of the couple checking email with a topless wooden statue next to them. Another shot a few days later of a painting in the foreground and that same statue way in the background was pleasing to my eyes.

Bottom line don't get if you don't want it, get it if you can live with it, and do not use others images as your decision points.

 

[Vivek]

Bottom line don't get if you don't want it, get it if you can live with it, and do not use others images as your decision points.

Of course, no one should ever do that!

 

[Shashin]

IDo you think the color issues will be resolved with WB firmware update, or could it be a sensor issue all together?

What "color issues"?

 

[Godfrey]

What "color issues"?

Yes, what "color issues"?

This thread is really funny. The curious presumption that because one has an M9, one MUST be interested to 'upgrade' to an M is weird, whether the M is a disappointment to you or not is secondary.

I sure don't buy a $7000 camera body every other year just because a new model has come out. I'm still quite happy with my M9 (happier with it now than I was a month ago, due to the experience of using it as my sole camera for a three week trip), but the new M has some features and improvements (responsiveness, the option for Live View, battery life, etc) that will motivate me to eventually buy one. I have no issues with the image quality—from everything I've seen, it's excellent and a healthy step beyond the M9 in terms of reduction of moiré, acutance, sensitivity, etc.

Maybe in another year or two, I'm in no rush.

G

 

[sven]

I am holding off buying the M even though my dealer had my preorder a couple of weeks back. I have my own reasons. Of course it is not going to resemble M9 files, and there is a reason, which I am not interested in furthur discussing. Not interested in making a forum argument.

But I am unable to understand "color issues". Basically if you shoot RAW, you are accepting the fact that files are unprocessed and you process them to your tastes. The camera is pretty new so not much profiles available, recommend creating your own profile, use it as a starting point and tweak the files to your tastes. I have handled the M and processed my "own" files, did not see anything that would be classified as an issue.

 

[glenerrolrd]

Having gone thru each of the upgrade cycles ..M8,M9,S2 ...I have encountered few surprises with the M . Each product introduction had some issues but in general the new product was viewed as clearly worth the effort . The M9 is a tough act to follow .

Each photographer should gauge the benefits of the new M ..for me its the better high ISO performance ..really I need ISO1600 that looks like the M9 s 640 . Others want LV and the EVF to extend the range and/or improve focus accuracy . The new specifications can make an M kit much more capable .

The color issues are real . You can work around them for most work (skin tones look difficult ) . Leica did correct this issue with the S2 . New firmware can make them better . You can correct much of the issue in the raw conversion . The M files will never completely match the M9 ...this will bother some photographers but not others .

There is no way I will skip the new M but I needed to find a better entry point .

 

[Amin]

Anyone have a link to a page demonstrating these color issues? The samples I've seen from Jono and others have looked great.

 

[Gary Clennan]

My decision to buy the M240 was the best I have made in a while. I upgraded from the M8 which makes all the features of the M240 even more valuable to me. I have shot hundreds of frames with it and have been very happy with the results. Yes, there are some bugs to work out just like there was with all other digital M models. I'm in it for the long haul though and will keep this one for a long time. People will always push the truth to justify their reasoning for not buying it or for actually buying one. I am happy with my decision and feel it is an amazing camera.

 

[Gary Clennan]

Hello Amin. See attached link for many pages of over-analyzed discussion on the M240 color output. I am reasonably happy with my WB but I could be color blind as one poster pointed out.

M Color - Leica User Forum

 

[Shashin]

Gary, but those are just words--showing that a lot of people don't know what metamerism means. Is there actually any images that show the "color issues"?

 

[glenerrolrd]

Join the M240 Facebook group and you will see plenty of examples and discussion . Leica has acknowledged the AWB issue and reported that it will be corrected in future firm wear releases .

 

[photomeme]

Join the M240 Facebook group and you will see plenty of examples and discussion . Leica has acknowledged the AWB issue and reported that it will be corrected in future firm wear releases .

Metamerism has nothing to do with AWB, or manual white balance for that matter, and could not be addressed in post processing, a firmware upgrade, or a color profile.

It will be interesting to read Puts' take, which is imminent on Tao of Leica blog.