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New Mini M?

peterv

New member
How about a new grandparent who fancied their photographs when their kids were young?
And how is he/she going to take snaps of the grandchildren playing in the livingroom?
Who here truly believes that the AF of this camere (if it exists) is going to be fast enough? Or who believes the high ISO performance will be adequate for such a task? Especially with such a slow lens?

IMHO this camera would be more of a holiday-knipser in the Caribbean or Mediterranean with lost of light. But for that purpose I guess it will be to big/clunky/heavy compared to the competition ...
 

peterv

New member
Ah, yes! Forgot about that ...
I'm sure they'll make available a nice big never ready case for it, for let's say €299
 

jonoslack

Active member
This getting to be totally unbelievable! No matter how much money Leica may pay me, I would never get myself to defend such crap ( Not that I am suggesting that you are on Leica's payroll, Jono.).

Such film folks have moved onto better things. Photography, film/digital, whatever, existed/exists besides Luxury goods with limited use. :)

Similar impossible aruguments, with different scenario were put forth for the Lunar!
HI Vivek
I can't possibly admit that something my wife would like is crap - so, hey, I have to disagree with you. Added to which I (sometimes) like zoom lenses.

The problem with the Lunar is the obvious and impossible vulgarity of the thing. Beyond the price tag (which is much less than the Lunar, and which includes a lens) I can't see any vulgarity here.

But I think you have a problem in describing something you don't want (I don't want one either) as crap. I mean, I don't want a Passat estate either - or a Nissan Leaf, or a Ferrari - but I understand that other people do want these things and I can see a good reason for all of them. . . . . for some people.
 

jonoslack

Active member
And how is he/she going to take snaps of the grandchildren playing in the livingroom?
Who here truly believes that the AF of this camere (if it exists) is going to be fast enough? Or who believes the high ISO performance will be adequate for such a task? Especially with such a slow lens?
Well, that's something we'll have to wait to find out about (if the camera exists). The AF on the X2 is fast enough however, and the ISO performance is good enough too, so it isn't beyond the bounds of possibility.

IMHO this camera would be more of a holiday-knipser in the Caribbean or Mediterranean with lost of light. But for that purpose I guess it will be to big/clunky/heavy compared to the competition ...
Well, I'd subscribe to the cruise ship clientele - and as I understand there are thousands of cruise ships plying the pretty places of this world, full of grandparents with loads of disposable income . . . I guess that the new Mini M (if it exists) is just what they've all been waiting for!:)
 

AnthonyFlores

New member
With the excellent Zeiss lens on the Sony RX and I'm sure other companies improving their optics... Leica's biggest advantage is starting to disappear. I don't think they can keep growing while being so behind the specs and features of other cameras on the market... especially when asking for so much more money.

Otherwise, Leica should just focus only on the M rangefinder and S series, two successful niche markets for them that bigger companies are less likely to compete in, and make the decision to not be anywhere they have to actually compete with other companies on specs and technology advances.
 

peterv

New member
Well, that's something we'll have to wait to find out about (if the camera exists). The AF on the X2 is fast enough however, and the ISO performance is good enough too, so it isn't beyond the bounds of possibility.
No, theoretically it isn't. But we all know that the X1/2 are not exactly fast performers in the AF department, so that doesn't bode well for this (fictional) camera. And the Sony sensor on the X's is now 3/4 years old. Whether it's good enough for 1/125 @ f6,4 indoors remains to be seen ...
Well, I'd subscribe to the cruise ship clientele - and as I understand there are thousands of cruise ships plying the pretty places of this world, full of grandparents with loads of disposable income . . . I guess that the new Mini M (if it exists) is just what they've all been waiting for!:)
I agree, there's quite a potential there, which is fine by me, because Leica can use the profit for their M and S line . :)
 
V

Vivek

Guest
HI Vivek
I can't possibly admit that something my wife would like is crap - so, hey, I have to disagree with you. Added to which I (sometimes) like zoom lenses.

The problem with the Lunar is the obvious and impossible vulgarity of the thing. Beyond the price tag (which is much less than the Lunar, and which includes a lens) I can't see any vulgarity here.

But I think you have a problem in describing something you don't want (I don't want one either) as crap. I mean, I don't want a Passat estate either - or a Nissan Leaf, or a Ferrari - but I understand that other people do want these things and I can see a good reason for all of them. . . . . for some people.
Hi Jono,

i do not have a problem with describing crap as crap just like you say that no mini M buyer would read a forum like this. :)
 

douglasf13

New member
With the excellent Zeiss lens on the Sony RX and I'm sure other companies improving their optics... Leica's biggest advantage is starting to disappear. I don't think they can keep growing while being so behind the specs and features of other cameras on the market... especially when asking for so much more money.

Otherwise, Leica should just focus only on the M rangefinder and S series, two successful niche markets for them that bigger companies are less likely to compete in, and make the decision to not be anywhere they have to actually compete with other companies on specs and technology advances.
Yeah, I just got an RX1 today, and the lens is fantastic...like, really, really fantastic. My 35/2 ASPH is better than the RX1's lens in some ways (distortion and LOCA,) but there are things about the Zeiss lens that are better, too, so I'd call it a draw, or maybe even advantage RX1.

To me, the beauty of Leica 35mm is the rangefinder. If you don't need that, there are a lot of great options out there.
 

jaapv

Subscriber Member
A pity that this lens will be used for a few years only. As a P&S the RX1 will become obsolete in its class far more quickly than any digital rangefinder camera will. And a Summicron will still be around decades from now., when all RX1-s are residing in a landfill.
 

Agnius

Member
I would not mind to find a FF sensor body to mount my M glass to that doesn't cost a small fortune. So far I have been quite pleased with Ricoh GXR-M solution, but FF would always be a nice upgrade. But I don't think this is what this camera going to be. Oh well.
 

Steen

Senior Subscriber Member
New Mini M ?


The more I look at this, the more I think it's not what we will see next month...
+ 1

What a relief when it turns out that it has a system mount for interchangeable lenses and a built-in viewfinder.
 

retow

Member
The X2 is already slightly outdated, irrespective of price. The Mini will be launched into a 2014 market. I can only guess what competition has up its sleeves for next year. But if Sony and Fuji keep up their pace of innovation and Pentax gets back into the game there will be a stiff wind blowing into Solms` face. The argument made by some that cameras like the RX1 will become obsolete in a few years and its lens a waste should not ignore the fact that the Leica Mini looks already obsolete before even being available in the marketplace.
 

AnthonyFlores

New member
The X2 is already slightly outdated, irrespective of price. The Mini will be launched into a 2014 market. I can only guess what competition has up its sleeves for next year. But if Sony and Fuji keep up their pace of innovation and Pentax gets back into the game there will be a stiff wind blowing into Solms` face. The argument made by some that cameras like the RX1 will become obsolete in a few years and its lens a waste should not ignore the fact that the Leica Mini looks already obsolete before even being available in the marketplace.
I agree. On a specs basis, the x2 was outdated the day it was released. Most everyone, even hardcore Leica fans, were underwhelmed.

And I disagree with the idea that the RX1 lens will be wasted... Sony will use that same lens on the RX2 that will probably have a slimmer body, a built in EVF, and much better autofocus, perhaps even improved sensor tech. It's a great camera already, and will fix any flaws and get even better when released.

I don't want to assume the leaked camera is a reality, but if so, Leica is missing a big opportunity. An FF EVIL M with interchangeable lenses with a sleek body for 4.5k to 5kish would sell unbelievable well. And would probably be easier, faster to produce and ultimately more profitable than the rangefinder cameras. So who cares if it cannibalizes M 24O sales... the M24O is a small market and probably not going to grow much more, not to mention how slow likely is in producing those cameras anyway.

With a true Mini M, Leica had [or maybe still has] the perfect opening to make a mark and win a lot of people over... but if this leak is correct, they will have only given up more ground to Sony and Fuji in markets other than rangefinder and MF.
 

jaapv

Subscriber Member
And I disagree with the idea that the RX1 lens will be wasted... Sony will use that same lens on the RX2 that will probably have a slimmer body, a built in .
Do you mean that it can be used to upgrade your RX1 to an RX2?
:confused: I rather doubt that, the way it is fixed to the camera.

My point is that fixed-lens compacts are in an update treadmill that sadly outdates excellent cameras as soon as they are released. Quite wasteful for overly expensive ones like the RX1 (and X2 for that matter).
With the RDF, where Leica sets the pace,that is far less of a problem. The lenses which are the major part of the investment can be transferred to the next iteration and the bodies themselves, well, look at the M8 which is ancient by digital standards. I doubt that even one is retired. Either they are in full use, still used as a backup, or happily shot by second owners. Most of the one-day wonders of more than three years old are in landfills or at the bottom of cupboards.
 

patk

New member
turning this into an rx1 bashing thread will not raise the value or quality of the new leica. leica has to do that on its own - by putting a marvelous product out there. if the "leaked photo," whether a mock-up or not, truly depicts the new product, imo it's a fail, though i don't doubt someone will buy it.
 

AnthonyFlores

New member
Do you mean that it can be used to upgrade your RX1 to an RX2?
:confused: I rather doubt that, the way it is fixed to the camera.

My point is that fixed-lens compacts are in an update treadmill that sadly outdates excellent cameras as soon as they are released. Quite wasteful for overly expensive ones like the RX1 (and X2 for that matter).
With the RDF, where Leica sets the pace,that is far less of a problem. The lenses which are the major part of the investment can be transferred to the next iteration and the bodies themselves, well, look at the M8 which is ancient by digital standards. I doubt that even one is retired. Either they are in full use, still used as a backup, or happily shot by second owners. Most of the one-day wonders of more than three years old are in landfills or at the bottom of cupboards.
Okay, I get your point... and it's a good one. And it only affirms why it would be in Leica's best interest to find a way to produce another FF body that took M lenses... which maintained their current profit margins and was, ideally, easier and faster to produce.

Those are big assumptions since I don't really know Leica's production process, but from what everyone says, the rangefinder is the hardest and most expensive component of the camera to produce.

So IF Leica could produce a FF mini M that took M lenses... and do it at a faster rate, charge less money yet keep their margins... and still sell more... tell me again why they would be worrying about cannibalizing M24O sales?
 

Tim

Active member
Most of the one-day wonders of more than three years old are in landfills or at the bottom of cupboards.
the total cost of my "one-day wonders" WITH their lenses attached don't come close to the "new" price of a M body (not yet - a long way to go) let alone the cost of investment of M lenses. If you sell the one-day wonder at the right time you can re-coupe a lot of the initial cost anyway and move on up in sensor and lens technology.

IMO there is something special about a lens matched and built to the body that produces an image that is not easily attained for the same price.
 
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