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New Mini M?
- Thread starter pgmj
- Start date
Jorgen Udvang
Subscriber Member
Rewind 30 years:
Customer in camera shop with money to burn:
- What are all those numbers on the lens?
Man working in camera shop:
- Don't worry about them. Do you see the number "8" there? Just make sure that it's aligned with the red dot there and you'll be fine.
- But the other numbers?
- Those are for professional photographers. Makes your photos get blurry if you don't watch out. You don't want blurry photos, do you?
- No, no, I'll leave that to the pros.
--
At that time ISO 400 was the fastest film most normal p&s photographers used. Nowadays, ISO 3200 is probably cleaner than 400 was back then. So what is all this talk about slow lenses again? No viewfinder? Big deal! Have you seen on the back of this camera? There's a big window there, with enough space for grandma and all the kids. Much better than looking through that little hole on the old cameras, which was next to impossible with glasses anyway.
It's a bit expensive of course, but it's a Leica isn't it? I've heard that professional photographers use Leica, so it must be good then?
Customer in camera shop with money to burn:
- What are all those numbers on the lens?
Man working in camera shop:
- Don't worry about them. Do you see the number "8" there? Just make sure that it's aligned with the red dot there and you'll be fine.
- But the other numbers?
- Those are for professional photographers. Makes your photos get blurry if you don't watch out. You don't want blurry photos, do you?
- No, no, I'll leave that to the pros.
--
At that time ISO 400 was the fastest film most normal p&s photographers used. Nowadays, ISO 3200 is probably cleaner than 400 was back then. So what is all this talk about slow lenses again? No viewfinder? Big deal! Have you seen on the back of this camera? There's a big window there, with enough space for grandma and all the kids. Much better than looking through that little hole on the old cameras, which was next to impossible with glasses anyway.
It's a bit expensive of course, but it's a Leica isn't it? I've heard that professional photographers use Leica, so it must be good then?
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Jorgen, I am not questioning the fact that there are some customers that will act out your scenario. I am questioning how many there are, and whether it is really wise for Leica to spend R&D resources, of which they have desperately few compared to their huge competitors, on a camera which is "for them only", instead of "for them as well as for more involved photographers".
I also cannot imagine that Leica, IMHO the world's best at designing lenses that are at the same time great glass, and compact and fast, could not make a f:2.8-f-4.0 no larger than the Fuji, also for APS-C. But we will never know, will we?
I also cannot imagine that Leica, IMHO the world's best at designing lenses that are at the same time great glass, and compact and fast, could not make a f:2.8-f-4.0 no larger than the Fuji, also for APS-C. But we will never know, will we?
Jorgen Udvang
Subscriber Member
It's not important if it's bigger or smaller, more or less advanced, better or worse than the Fuji. Those in the target group will probably be more than happy to get a camera where one does not need to worry about changing lenses. Actually, this is more of a competitor for the Lunar, at less than half price, with the red dot, made by Leica, inside and out. And again; no worry about lenses. The one that's available is glued to the camera.
If I had a solid economy, knew little about photography and wanted a show-off camera that could also be used to take good photos with, this would be the one.
Unfortunately, I do not have a solid economy, have too many cameras costing in sum far more than this one, but would probably take at least as good photos with the Leica as I do with all the ones that I have :ROTFL:
If I had a solid economy, knew little about photography and wanted a show-off camera that could also be used to take good photos with, this would be the one.
Unfortunately, I do not have a solid economy, have too many cameras costing in sum far more than this one, but would probably take at least as good photos with the Leica as I do with all the ones that I have :ROTFL:
ptomsu
Workshop Member
I actually do not understand all this discussion about how fast , or in this case slow the lens is. This is absolutely not the point about the XV. Wanting a shallow DOF then just forget the XV.
The XV either appeals to one or not. For me it does, because it mimics the old school of camera building perfectly, while adding the right state of the art credentials as outstanding sensor and compact high quality zoom, reasonable fast AF (not a sports or wildlife camera) plus some other nice features. All that together coming from Leica, I do not even question the price point.
Not able or not willing to spend that money, just look elsewhere.
The XV either appeals to one or not. For me it does, because it mimics the old school of camera building perfectly, while adding the right state of the art credentials as outstanding sensor and compact high quality zoom, reasonable fast AF (not a sports or wildlife camera) plus some other nice features. All that together coming from Leica, I do not even question the price point.
Not able or not willing to spend that money, just look elsewhere.
It is not about the money, ptomsu, nor only about shallow DOF, though being able to achieve this would be a plus. In his review, Sean Reid points out to a message received form Michaël Reichmann, to the effect that, in broad daylight but with severely overcast weather, MR was already having to use ISO 1600. That is not great IMHO.
As I stated previously, with a faster zoom, I might have bought one, even though the red dot holds no spell over me. I am just disappointed that this camera is for the beholden and not for a wider audience.
As I stated previously, with a faster zoom, I might have bought one, even though the red dot holds no spell over me. I am just disappointed that this camera is for the beholden and not for a wider audience.
fultonpics
New member
using 1600 ISO is not necessarily an issue in today's digital world. i shoot at 3200 for print use and it's okay--depends on how good the sensor is at that speed. seems like most photos end up on the web anyway. the concern i have is the ability to isolate at the long end. want to see more samples. sounds like the camera is built nicely.
ptomsu
Workshop Member
@philber,
You obviously did not read my post carefully. I said to some the "slow" lens might be a show stopper, to others it is not. And to me for example it is not. So if it is to you, then I would not waste anymore time in repeating your desire for a faster XV in whatever thread here. Sorry to be direct, but this is starting to get boring!
WRT Sean Reid and M. Reichmann - I could not care less about these guys, as their reviews reflect by no means anyhow practical photography. I do not need S.R. to know that a certain Leica lens (or other lens) is good and sharp, I can judge that usually from my own test shots. But if you like to read Reid & Reichmann, you can do of course - up to you again. Anyway also referring to such reviews just gets boring!
Best regards
Peter
You obviously did not read my post carefully. I said to some the "slow" lens might be a show stopper, to others it is not. And to me for example it is not. So if it is to you, then I would not waste anymore time in repeating your desire for a faster XV in whatever thread here. Sorry to be direct, but this is starting to get boring!
WRT Sean Reid and M. Reichmann - I could not care less about these guys, as their reviews reflect by no means anyhow practical photography. I do not need S.R. to know that a certain Leica lens (or other lens) is good and sharp, I can judge that usually from my own test shots. But if you like to read Reid & Reichmann, you can do of course - up to you again. Anyway also referring to such reviews just gets boring!
Best regards
Peter
edwardkaraa
New member
While we are still arguing about this camera, it is already selling to clients worldwide. As Peter said, you may like it or not, we all have different needs, and while it is not for me personally, it definitely is the camera for many people as Leica seems to be quite happy with the sales so far.
Less distortion, better color, more sharpness over the frame, better weight balance, more solid build, simpler more intuitive/analog user interface and most important less weight in your wallet to carry
By the way I wonder why lenses even offer f8 or f16 if it is not even possible to use f6.3 in daylight (or f5.0 at 50mm fov)?
Compare the DOF and sensor noise behaviour to a m4/3 and it is equivalent to a 14-35/2.5-4.5 lens, just sharper wide open than the 12-35/2.8 Pana lens.
MichaelToye
New member
I don't really get why it's referred to as Mini M, when the M is german for 'rangefinder' (Messsucher).
ptomsu
Workshop Member
Can only give my personal feeling/answer: Take it in your hand and operate it, it "feels" lot of the M and with the EVF attached it actually works even better than the M IMHO - but this again is personal.
Plus another advantage - it is much closer in size to an M6, which is a much more preferable size than the new M.
My 5c ....
And I thought lens speed was not about shallow dof. The latter is simply a consequence of the former, I was made to believe
. But speedy lenses allow to shoot at decent shutter speeds without having to push iso to levels were IQ starts to be compromised.I agree with you. In the end I find x-vario a better name.
To pick up a quote from that review:
"The shutter speeds are capped at 1/2000th second, which could be due to the limitation of a leaf shutter ... "
Is this true? A Leaf Shutter? Really?
If so, what is the max flash sync speed without resorting to HSS on a SF58?
Thanks for any clarification,
- Marc
V
Vivek
Guest
Someone who would find an use for should check that camera out and inform everyone (which rules out most Leica reviewers?)
This promo video could have been one source but I did not find any information related to that at all. Although there is a fleeting glimpse of a flash being used (on a mini M! :shocked
.Yvonne Venegas: The Personal View of Things on Vimeo
dave.gt
Well-known member
Thank you, Guy...your work as a moderator is greatly appreciated. BTDT myself and it is difficult.
I personally am happy to see someone stand up and call it out. I am still deciding whether to even participate in GetDPI and with all the negativity, I can't say I like this at all, yet.
My interest in this camera would jump a bit if it syncs at higher shutter speeds using radio triggered portable strobes outdoors, which I do a lot.Someone who would find an use for should check that camera out and inform everyone (which rules out most Leica reviewers?)
This promo video could have been one source but I did not find any information related to that at all. Although there is a fleeting glimpse of a flash being used (on a mini M! :shocked
Yvonne Venegas: The Personal View of Things on Vimeo
- Marc