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Statement from Leica on M Delivery
- Thread starter monza
- Start date
thrice
Active member
Hi Peter, may I ask where you have your camera on preorder? Feel free to pm if you prefer.
Cheers,
Dan
PeterA
Well-known member
No problem - I buy stuff from the biggest dealer in Leica equipment in Australia and have done so for 15 years. Sometimes I buy from a dealer in the US. I am on no one's waiting list - and if I decided would likely be placed on the top of these so called waiting lists anyway.
Fortunately I am in no hurry as I enjoy using my M9 and Monochrome for my rangefinder 'hit' and won't be buying into the CMOS chipped LeicaCaNikon until it is readily available and sorted and spare batteries and accessories are readily available - and the prices actually conform to suggested retail.
This time will likely coincide with the early buyers beginning to sell off as they await the next iteration of the next best thing to eventually start threads called 'fun with' which they can enjoy - demonstrating no difference between the new iteration of a Leica or pretty much any other camera one can buy.
Do I sound too cynical? Should i be more excited about a CMOS Leica than I currently feel? Is there something missing in the posted files so far that make me feel underwhelmed?
All the best
Pete
stephengilbert
Active member
"It's funny that the most vocal critics of the M240 color and CMOS sensor are the ones who never used a M240...."
A legitimate gripe, I guess, so long as you're equally amused by the many similarly situated people who rave about the camera.
A legitimate gripe, I guess, so long as you're equally amused by the many similarly situated people who rave about the camera.
fultonpics
New member
maybe slow number of sensors from STM? can't be that difficult to assemble the cameras.
PeterA
Well-known member
I kinda of get the feeling you are having a go at me ?
1. Leica have admitted that availability will be limited until the new Calendar year - a fact I pointed out in a previous thread based on my own knowledge of where Leica is at with their own production abilities. Are you disagreeing with what Leica is saying about their own production delays?
2. My comment on being underwhelmed by the LeicaM240 files stands as my opinion based on my own eyes and my own extensive research using two different copies of the camera - as indicated in previous post - sure I'll be buying one - there is no hurry there is nothing special about the files - they are good enough - very similar to most cameras out there except you can stick M glass in front - handy because I have a lot of it.
Have a nice day Mr.
No matter whether you love the M240 or not, it is easily apparent that it has not been the same hit as the M9 was (logically it couldn't be), and by now in the timeline the M9 order book was starting to settle down to supplying customers that weren't on the pre-order list. So there is something disingenuous in the Leica statement.
Yes it is true you could say that the M240 is a more complicated camera, but equally electronic components tend to get simpler in their installation and more unitary in design. So if you factored that in slightly one way or another depending on your belief in modern assembly techniques and testing, it still doesn't really address the lack of cameras being supplied to a smaller customer base (compared with the M9).
Steve
Yes it is true you could say that the M240 is a more complicated camera, but equally electronic components tend to get simpler in their installation and more unitary in design. So if you factored that in slightly one way or another depending on your belief in modern assembly techniques and testing, it still doesn't really address the lack of cameras being supplied to a smaller customer base (compared with the M9).
Steve
GMB
Active member
Did you ever talk to a Leica Rep off the record? They are embarrassed by their inability to deliver the camera -- and in my view rightly so. Same for dealers. In the digital age, where cameras are still constantly improved (and in my view there is quite some room for improvement in the M 240), most rightly want to be able to buy a product when it is announced or shortly thereafter, not 18 months later.
The funny thing is that those who managed to get the camera early are often the loudest to tell others to be be patient.
And before you ask: I have none on order and (currently) no intention to order. So I personally don't give a s***, but I understand those who are frustrated.
thrice
Active member
So you aren't buying in Melbourne?
As far as I am aware there is no retailer advertising/selling the new M above RRP in Australia.
Pete, it is interesting how negatively you feel about the camera and the files it produces yet you are willing to purchase one.
As you have used one I am surprised you feel the CMOS sensor is such a step backward. I have made a simple preset in lightroom that makes the files look almost identical to the M9. Personal choice at the end of the day. One thing is for certain the M files are more flexible.
What I can say is that it is almost unthinkable that there will be another CCD based M camera.
I do hope you can eventually warm to the imaging characteristics of the new camera.
I won't be able to purchase the camera until it is out of backorder, but I will still buy it.
Cheers,
Dan
I am really amazed at now a relatively simple Leica announcement can produce such passion and inflame the sensitivities.
Please folks, lets keep it polite and to-the-point.
Remember, conversation that would be appropriate at a dinner party.
thanks
-bob
Please folks, lets keep it polite and to-the-point.
Remember, conversation that would be appropriate at a dinner party.
thanks
-bob
Last edited:
fultonpics
New member
1.) new Leica Stores opening--all clamoring for inventory for stock and sales. These stores service high profile clients, so they have to be under pressure to deliver backlog. not to mention capital drain to launch the store fronts.
2.) Vario X model ramp with a new production processes due to significant re-design
3.) supplier challenges for both new cameras-lots of new parts
4.) company dwarfed in resources compared to Canon, Nikon, Sony, etc.
5.) ww economic improvements--more demand for high end products
Seems like a ton of stuff all at once so no wonder there are issues. their memo is not a good sign. it implies the backlog will continue for sometime without identifying the real bottleneck issue. it might be awhile before we see M 240's sitting around in dealers stock.
2.) Vario X model ramp with a new production processes due to significant re-design
3.) supplier challenges for both new cameras-lots of new parts
4.) company dwarfed in resources compared to Canon, Nikon, Sony, etc.
5.) ww economic improvements--more demand for high end products
Seems like a ton of stuff all at once so no wonder there are issues. their memo is not a good sign. it implies the backlog will continue for sometime without identifying the real bottleneck issue. it might be awhile before we see M 240's sitting around in dealers stock.
Personally, I try to temper my excitement by the fact that first, there aren't any around, and secondly, I need to put it in budget after several spending sprees lately, I'm out for a while. Third, I try not to really evaluate to closely right now, what's the point of getting excited about something I can't get anyway? This is something I have had to learn to work on, and I have gotten better at turning my eye away from these things, and just saying ahh, someday maybe and enjoy what I have at this point in time.
fulton pics, well, this is partly right, but you know inventory has improved for a lot of lenses. It's the camera bodies that seem to be most backlogged now. I think they have a really limited production like for camera bodies probably, and that hasn't really changed. They got better with the M9 eventually, or supply caught up with demand, I am not sure which. Maybe the same will happen here eventually, but as you say, and as they say, it may well be next year, and well into next year at that!
fulton pics, well, this is partly right, but you know inventory has improved for a lot of lenses. It's the camera bodies that seem to be most backlogged now. I think they have a really limited production like for camera bodies probably, and that hasn't really changed. They got better with the M9 eventually, or supply caught up with demand, I am not sure which. Maybe the same will happen here eventually, but as you say, and as they say, it may well be next year, and well into next year at that!
There are two factors regarding lens availability: (a) Leica increased prices in January 2012 (and again since then) and (b) the Chinese economy is much slower now, so demand is much less. The price buildup back in 2010-2011 of Leica glass prices was due to demand from China (one could pay US retail for a 35 FLE and make a couple of grand flipping it on eBay, and many people did exactly that.)
That makes a lot of sense actually. no wonder there were no lenses available hardly then. I know because I looked. I wound up giving up at the time. Then one day this year, I could have bought a 35 and 50 lux in the same day, I said man! I wound up going with a used 50 lux though, I had a hard time coughing up 9K that day. cough. heck, I could have bought a Noctilux a time or two if I had the funds in place this year...
I think there is also (c) Leica produce substantially more lenses (I believe 3x) than they did during 2011.
Here in the UK it is like 2005 in terms of stock availability. The only lens impossible to buy from stock is the 50 APO (the Noctilux is also thin on the ground but, retailing now for RRP GBP 8,000, I suspect dealers are less keen on stocking this lens in a soft market). In fact, I have noticed one provincial dealer I have bought from many times sells most of the lens range (including the once 'hot' 35 FLE) at a substantial discount to official RRP. I also notice that, unlike two years ago, that dealer has virtually every lens in stock.