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nevermind

anGy

Member
That the new 100/2 was so slow is disconcerting given the max aperture. One would assume it'd carry the newer AF firmware. Was it slow on your S2, or did you get a chance to also try it on the S-E?

My Hasselblad 100/2.2 is pretty fast … and it is also a CS lens:)

- Marc
I only could test it on my S2. The AF was very slow to start working (you want to press the AF button of the body harder to make it start) and slow during acquisition. The light on the Leica boot is not strong but the 70mm CS could work quick in those conditions. So I don't really understand what was going on with the 100mm AF.

It would be stupid to draw any conclusions based on that 2 minutes test but the 100mm AF speed is something I would definitively check (with a S2) before a buying decision. Like you said having a slow AF on a F2 lens would be a non sense.
 
M

mjr

Guest
Morning

I've been using a friends S2 for a week or so and after the D800E the viewfinder is incredible, I've moved from viewing the image at 100% to check focus to not really bothering at all, the focusing screen is so good I feel confident I have it right without bothering to check, that's with a 70cs as well as a selection of Pentax 67 lenses on the Leica adapter, which were really impressive by the way.

I'm going to get an S if i can afford to do it properly with a couple of lenses, it's nice to feel that I don't have to bother checking so much on the rear screen so I'm not too fussed about the resolution, it's handy for checking composition as much as anything.

There's a S kit with the new 100 being advertised locally but the price is a bit scary so I may look at the Hasselblad as Marc says it focusses so well, this camera will be used mainly for studio portraits with strobes.

It's great that the new cameras will make the older cameras more "affordable" if that's the right word!

Mat
 

fotografz

Well-known member
I only could test it on my S2. The AF was very slow to start working (you want to press the AF button of the body harder to make it start) and slow during acquisition. The light on the Leica boot is not strong but the 70mm CS could work quick in those conditions. So I don't really understand what was going on with the 100mm AF.

It would be stupid to draw any conclusions based on that 2 minutes test but the 100mm AF speed is something I would definitively check (with a S2) before a buying decision. Like you said having a slow AF on a F2 lens would be a non sense.
Well, you were right! :thumbs:

I just did all the FW updates on both cameras S(006) and S2P.

After I updated all the lens FW on the S(006), I checked the FW number against the ones listed in the S2 lens FW updates, and they are the same.

So, I then updated the S2P's FW, and then tested the AF of my CS120 in the low tungsten ambient light of my studio area at 5AM (a real-world AF acid test I am very familiar with), and it was like night and day so to speak.:)

Much faster in acquiring focus, and even when I tried to trick it, it hunted very little before nailing it. I noted a huge difference right away … the few times it did hunt it was little incremental moves … NOT the huge move from one extreme to another … which was the frustrating thing about this lens given the long throw of a Macro

The CS120 was really the only lens that obviously was snail slow focusing and hunted a lot in low light … so if it's this much better, then all the other lenses should be amazing.

WaHoo!

- Marc
 

fotografz

Well-known member
Morning

I've been using a friends S2 for a week or so and after the D800E the viewfinder is incredible, I've moved from viewing the image at 100% to check focus to not really bothering at all, the focusing screen is so good I feel confident I have it right without bothering to check, that's with a 70cs as well as a selection of Pentax 67 lenses on the Leica adapter, which were really impressive by the way.

I'm going to get an S if i can afford to do it properly with a couple of lenses, it's nice to feel that I don't have to bother checking so much on the rear screen so I'm not too fussed about the resolution, it's handy for checking composition as much as anything.

There's a S kit with the new 100 being advertised locally but the price is a bit scary so I may look at the Hasselblad as Marc says it focusses so well, this camera will be used mainly for studio portraits with strobes.

It's great that the new cameras will make the older cameras more "affordable" if that's the right word!

Mat
Mat, if you are in an enclosed studio with no ambient contamination you can get away with the Leica S100/2 (that isn't available in a CS version). Flash duration would mitigate using a slow 1/125 sync speed. Outdoors is another matter altogether.

The Hasselblad HC100/2.2 is a good alternative IF you can find a used S to H adapter to avoid the steep tariff of a new one from Leica. Using the S2 CS mode sync speeds up to 1/750 are available when hard wired to a pack or when using a radio transmitter that allows higher sync speeds like the Profoto AIR. Otherwise it'll be 1/500th which is still a lot better than 1/125 of the S FP focal plane shutter mode.

If you are looking for a S2, keep an eye on the F/S section here on GetDpi … my S2P may appear there soon ;)

- Marc
 

anGy

Member
Marc, if I may ask...
If the AF speed & accuracy is more or less (or completely ?) the same between S2 FW updated and S-006, if the better S-006 LCD is still not good enough for checking critical focus and if the iso difference between both bodies is just an incremental upgrade, what are the motivations left for upgrading from S2 to S-006 ?

I am considering upgrading too but am a little bit confused / perplexe right now.

If the warranty is a concern maybe a new Leica protection plan for the S2 could be a good answer (for those who can still apply for it, which is my case) ?
I don't know if the other upgraded specs of the S-006 are worth it neither ? (GPS, quicker image processor, and others I can't remember) ?
 

anGy

Member
Using the S2 CS mode sync speeds up to 1/750 are available when hard wired to a pack or when using a radio transmitter that allows higher sync speeds like the Profoto AIR. Otherwise it'll be 1/500th which is still a lot better than 1/125 of the S FP focal plane shutter mode.
- Marc
A good option to take full advantage of the central shutter is also to use Pocket Wizzard Plus III transceivers. With this specific model it is possible to use the speed mode up to the full 1/1000s CS max speed (and they are relatively cheap).
 

fotografz

Well-known member
A good option to take full advantage of the central shutter is also to use Pocket Wizzard Plus III transceivers. With this specific model it is possible to use the speed mode up to the full 1/1000s CS max speed (and they are relatively cheap).
Another thank you!

Also good to know because I have some Profoto D42400R generators with Pocketwizard receivers. I wonder if they are backwards compatible and allow the higher sync speed of the Plus-IIIs? I would think it would since I believe it is the transmitter that determines that, with the receiver just doing what it is told ;)

This gets better and better :thumbup:

- Marc
 

fotografz

Well-known member
Marc, if I may ask...
If the AF speed & accuracy is more or less (or completely ?) the same between S2 FW updated and S-006, if the better S-006 LCD is still not good enough for checking critical focus and if the iso difference between both bodies is just an incremental upgrade, what are the motivations left for upgrading from S2 to S-006 ?

I am considering upgrading too but am a little bit confused / perplexe right now.

If the warranty is a concern maybe a new Leica protection plan for the S2 could be a good answer (for those who can still apply for it, which is my case) ?
I don't know if the other upgraded specs of the S-006 are worth it neither ? (GPS, quicker image processor, and others I can't remember) ?
Good question. Especially finding out that the S2 now seems to focus just as good.

The S(006) LCD is better, but I still wouldn't trust it for critical focus … not for some of the stuff I do. Frankly, I never much gave the LCD a second thought … when in studio, or on commercial location, I shoot tethered, and for most other work, I'm simply working to fast to stop and check the focus. Like someone else mentioned, I pretty much trust that big bright viewfinder, and just glance at the LCD to check facial expressions and composition (and of course to catch any exposure blunder) However, I understand that others have their own way of working and their own needs.

When the S(006) first came out, I didn't think it was worth the difference in price at all. So, I waited because I've learned from my Hasselblad MFD days that all good things come to those who wait.

A new S(006) warranty was definitely a part of this recent decision … three years with a loaner if the camera goes down. Plus the Promo pricing and a dealer loyalty discount from my "Leica Pusher" of over 20 years.

However, no matter how you slice it, it's roughly 2X the price of a nice S2 … or in my case a S2P with the better LCD glass. BTW, I liked the initial menu interface of the S2 over the S(006), and while the joy stick does add some functionality, I liked using the smooth round AE/L button on the rear of the S2 better for AF activation. That opinion may change once I get more familiar with the S(006).

My main motivation is that I want to preserve my current S shooting experience and aesthetic as long as possible. For me that means CCD and all CS glass. Since I do not like the cosmetic look of the S-E, that meant a S(006) which I hope serves me for the next 10 years. I saw it as a small window of opportunity before they are gone as new.

Frankly, depending on your own POV and any possibility of moving to a CMOS S or higher resolution S on down the road, I would exercise your option to extend the warranty on your S2 and put any remaining funds into lenses. $7.5K will buy a nice lens … unless you already own all of them :) If you do not have the CS45/2.8, I HIGHLY recommend it … it'll make more difference than a new camera IMO.

Personally, I already have five Leica CS lenses plus my HC100/2.2 … and was a bit bummed that the 24mm nor the new 100/2 were going to be a CS lens. I may eventually get the zoom for a walk-about "Florida" kit, but that is a low priority right now.

- Marc
 

anGy

Member
Thank you for that comprehensive answer :thumb up:

Regarding LCD use for focus confirmation:
That's right, the OVF is so nice that it gives good confidence about focus accuracy. Unfortunately it's getting difficult for my eyes to use this OVF with accuracy for landscape shots with wide lenses (45mm and wider) hence my need for checking focus afterwards.

Regarding the S-E design:
I've seen a lot of people bashing the M-E look but I find it nice personally. It's better looking live than on picture I think. But when I saw the S-E at Kina it was a bit of a chock, not elegant design at all.

Regarding the 45mm:
I also have it, for a month only. It is backfocusing on my body so I cannot fully enjoy it for the moment (and Leica wants the lens + the body back for calibration...). Already seen however that when a shot is in focus it's laser sharp and my standard Lightroom sharpness settings must be reduced !

Regarding high speed sync:
Here's the link to the complete info from Capture Integration site:
https://captureintegration.com/definitive-guide-to-medium-format-high-speed-sync/

Thank you again Marc for your feedback. I think I'll go the customer protection plan route and also buy a microprism for the OVF. It will be more than good enough for me.
 

tjv

Active member
I know people above would like a cut down, 50mpx Leica "pro format" Dalsa 80mpx sensor @ 50mpx, but I personally don't see the point. I know there aren't any other options to choose from, but I reckon it should be 60mpx or nothing.

Great to hear the new firmware has improved AF speed greatly on S2 and 006. I can only dream of an S system at this point, but I look on from the sidelines with interest.
 

GMB

Active member
Good question. Especially finding out that the S2 now seems to focus just as good.

- Marc
So if I understand you correctly, you are saying that after the respective firmware update for the S2 and the S(006) (+ the fw update for the lenses), there is no discernible difference as the regards speed an accuracy of the AF between the S2 and the S(006). Wow! If that is the case, I would be a happy camper :D:D:D. I had seriously considered the option of getting a S(006) because the design of the new S(006)-E is indeed plain ugly. In real life it looks so much worse than on photos. I think the S is one of the most elegant cameras and what they did with the S(006)-E takes all elegance away.
 

peterv

New member
Georg, interesting that you don't like the looks of the new design. I for one, like it a lot. Much cleaner and less clutter on the Tv knob, which now serves multiple purposes. To me the new design is a logical next step in the evolution of the S. To each their own!
 

GMB

Active member
Georg, interesting that you don't like the looks of the new design. I for one, like it a lot. Much cleaner and less clutter on the Tv knob, which now serves multiple purposes. To me the new design is a logical next step in the evolution of the S. To each their own!
peterv, I don't mean the new design in general but the gray lacquered top of the S-E. It really looks cheap, IMHO, compared to the black brass top used for the S2, the S(006), and the S(007).
 

docmoore

Subscriber and Workshop Member
Is that not Leica's desire....make you think twice about not buying the S007.

Most purchases in this range are desired not needed...and it is a short jump to the model most beautiful if you are already at the S-E model.

All of this makes me very happy that I upgraded to the S006 when I did.

The 4K is available from a lot of different sources...many are a much better platform for it.

Bob
 

baudolino

Well-known member
Just upgraded the fw on the S2, will also check lenses. If it really results in a meaningful improvement in AF speed, then I see no need to upgrade to any other version, beautiful or ugly. I am quite happy with the S2 as it is. The 007 appeals to me only for its higher ISO capability (and therefore better chances of hand holding in available light) but not if the output looks like a bigger version of the M240.
 

RVB

Member
Just upgraded the fw on the S2, will also check lenses. If it really results in a meaningful improvement in AF speed, then I see no need to upgrade to any other version, beautiful or ugly. I am quite happy with the S2 as it is. The 007 appeals to me only for its higher ISO capability (and therefore better chances of hand holding in available light) but not if the output looks like a bigger version of the M240.

I've owned both the S2 and S..the S feels better and makes the S2 feel like a beta version .. whether it's worth upgrading is subjective.

(sorry after I post this I realised you were taking about the potential upgrade to the 007)
 
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