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Leica SL (601) ..Oct 20th?

docmoore

Subscriber and Workshop Member
Watching this from a bit of a distance ...

It simultaneously amazes and appalls me that we have 500 responses over a camera only Jono has experience with.

Ditto the RX1rII and any of the new Sonys ....

And maybe 5 new pictures from any camera ...

Here is the deal ... froth does not make art ... gesticulate and cogitate all you want but until the steel is in the hand no one's opinion
is worth the bandwidth to post it.

And this is a site with the most talented photographers I would wish to spend a fortnight with on an isolated venue.

Yes got my own sense of whether a large mirrorless 24mp camera is worth the same price as a M246 or 240 ... but will not weigh in until I see
it in the flesh.

Truly like a reality show gone viral ...

Save your chips and invest them where you think they will give you the return that is worth your expended work and time.

One lens and that a zoom which is not fixed aperture ...

And if the little camera is all you have ever desired then great ... bottom line is what you do with it.

The sniping and derisive comments should be reserved until the special boxed item is in everyones hands.

Hope it rocks your world.

And I really should not comment like this after pulling weeds for 6 hours and imbibing a bit to recover.

Bob
 

uhoh7

New member
Throw a wrench in here. It has no electronic first curtain which turned out a huge issue on the A7r.
I've had so many strange and unpredictable issues with the first curtain shutter and various lenses on the A7, I turned it off and never use it. I do think the SL has some sort of "silent mode" mode, no?

Noise, burst speed, and lag are the primary shutter issues no? Certainly in the burst speed and lag department, the SL is ahead of the A7r2, well if Ming is to be believed, anyway, regarding the lag.
 

lambert

New member
I've had so many strange and unpredictable issues with the first curtain shutter and various lenses on the A7, I turned it off and never use it. I do think the SL has some sort of "silent mode" mode, no?

Noise, burst speed, and lag are the primary shutter issues no? Certainly in the burst speed and lag department, the SL is ahead of the A7r2, well if Ming is to be believed, anyway, regarding the lag.
Here's an honest preview of the SL:

http://www.mirrorlessons.com/2015/10/22/leica-sl-typ-601-hands-on-review/
 

doug

Well-known member
I've had so many strange and unpredictable issues with the first curtain shutter and various lenses on the A7, I turned it off and never use it.
It's been fine for me at shutter speeds no faster than 1/1000 sec. At faster shutter speeds I get uneven exposure. I use E1C shutter mode because it's quieter and more responsive. If the SL is as quiet and responsive without this feature I'd be OK without E1C.
 

uhoh7

New member
That's a good tip Doug, thank you. :)

Some of the worst photography I have ever seen in any review of anything, sorry. Makes DPR look like great shooters. In both places the subjects come out the worst, both camera and models. Yikes.

Compared to the nice work of Jono, Ming, Dowling and quite a few other small reviews, an abuse of photons.

Great watermark though. :)
 

lambert

New member
That's a good tip Doug, thank you. :)



Some of the worst photography I have ever seen in any review of anything, sorry. Makes DPR look like great shooters. In both places the subjects come out the worst, both camera and models. Yikes.

Compared to the nice work of Jono, Ming, Dowling and quite a few other small reviews, an abuse of photons.

Great watermark though. :)
I'm not disagreeing regarding artistic merit. But at least there's a balanced assessment of the performance of the AF system, one of the key selling points of the SL.
 
V

Vivek

Guest
At least one guy who would not be buying a real camera (non review sample) for his use.

Plus, being the start of a new system, I am more than willing to give it time to prove itself. But if Leica doesn’t plan to challenge the competition and simply sees the SL as an alternative for M users who wish to drop their current DSLR and use the same brand for all their work, I am going to need some motivation.
 

ptomsu

Workshop Member
That's a good tip Doug, thank you. :)



Some of the worst photography I have ever seen in any review of anything, sorry. Makes DPR look like great shooters. In both places the subjects come out the worst, both camera and models. Yikes.

Compared to the nice work of Jono, Ming, Dowling and quite a few other small reviews, an abuse of photons.

Great watermark though. :)
I think you completely misunderstand their reviews, this is for them in first place about capabilities of cameras and not great photos. I agree that good or great photos would help.

But I am - at least from my side - happy about any of these reviews, as it will help to judge a new camera without the need to instantly buying one - plus this would be even impossible in the case of the SL :cool:
 
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V

Vivek

Guest
That's a good tip Doug, thank you. :)



Some of the worst photography I have ever seen in any review of anything, sorry. Makes DPR look like great shooters. In both places the subjects come out the worst, both camera and models. Yikes.

Compared to the nice work of Jono, Ming, Dowling and quite a few other small reviews, an abuse of photons.

Great watermark though. :)
Far better than a nearly hour long metal polishing video from Leica showing off their lathing skills. ;)
 

lambert

New member
I think you completely misunderstand their reviews, this is for them in first place about capabilities of cameras and not great photos. I agree that good or great photos would help.

But I am - at least from my side - happy about any of these reviews, as it will help to judge a new camera without the need to instantly being one - plus this would be even impossible in the case of the SL :cool:
Spot on. The more info the better. All of the Leica testers/reviewers, for example, shot stationary subjects. These may be great from an artistic perspective, but I'm really keen to see how the high speed AF at 11 fps stacks up when shooting a fast moving subject.
 

fotografz

Well-known member
Just saw the SL at Photo Plus in NYC. Got it straight from the horses mouth. The SL does NOT support central shutters with the adapter, and will not in the future via firmware. He said they wanted to leave a reason for somebody to get an S. I thought that was pretty lame personally. I can't imagine that's an actual reason not to support leaf lenses. Intentionally crippling a function just to drive sales to a higher end product is a ludicrous move. Also the EVF is very good, but I wouldn't say it's heads above the very best EVFs in a Fuji or Sony. You still have to zoom in to check critical focus, it's just a little less 'grainy' in the finder. I will say that it's not as big as people say. Even the zoom is not too bad overall. It just looks huge in comparison to the camera.
Well POOP!!!!! Rather than drive sales toward the S, they simply eliminated one reason to get this camera.:banghead:

It's as if Leica doesn't think there is enough difference between this camera and the S without relying on leaf shutter to separate them. So, in effect they are doing the opposite.

I always took a DSLR with me on jobs where the S was the main camera ... for back-up, and to be able to respond to situations better suited to a DSLR handling. Use of CS functions on the SL would have made it a truer back-up to the S, while extending the SL's ability to work with high sync lighting unlike any other DSLR or Mirrorless interchangeable lens solution.

I sure as heck wouldn't buy a $17K second S just in case ... but I could see a SL user adding a couple of CS lenses to extend the ability of the SL kit when working with lighting. That'd potentially increase sale of CS lenses, and most certainly add value to used CS optics.

- Marc
 

ptomsu

Workshop Member
Well POOP!!!!! Rather than drive sales toward the S, they simply eliminated one reason to get this camera.:banghead:

It's as if Leica doesn't think there is enough difference between this camera and the S without relying on leaf shutter to separate them. So, in effect they are doing the opposite.

I always took a DSLR with me on jobs where the S was the main camera ... for back-up, and to be able to respond to situations better suited to a DSLR handling. Use of CS functions on the SL would have made it a truer back-up to the S, while extending the SL's ability to work with high sync lighting unlike any other DSLR or Mirrorless interchangeable lens solution.

I sure as heck wouldn't buy a $17K second S just in case ... but I could see a SL user adding a couple of CS lenses to extend the ability of the SL kit when working with lighting. That'd potentially increase sale of CS lenses, and most certainly add value to used CS optics.

- Marc
I think this feature can be activated anytime via firmware! Or maybe there would be some SL lenses with leaf shutter coming later?

Peter
 

turtle

New member
If CS shutters are indeed disabled with the adaptor and this can be remedied via firmware (and I assume it can), then I think it would be a huge mistake for Leica to obstruct CS operation of S lenses mounted on the SL. This would be seen as a cynical move and completely at odds with the universal platform benefits of the SL. Hopefully there will be greater clarity from Leica on the matter.

Someone who decides to do strobe work may decide to pick up an S lens or two, but is unlikely to decide to blow another 17K on top for a S. To hope that S users who own CS lenses and who adopt the SL will then fork out for a range of SL (CS) lenses as well (assuming Leica makes some) would be equally absurd. Full utility of the S lens line up provides the most appeal. The products are already well differentiated by virtue of the size of the sensors, form factor and plethora of other differences.


I think this feature can be activated anytime via firmware! Or maybe there would be some SL lenses with leaf shutter coming later?

Peter
 

doug

Well-known member
If CS shutters are indeed disabled with the adaptor and this can be remedied via firmware (and I assume it can), then I think it would be a huge mistake for Leica to obstruct CS operation of S lenses mounted on the SL. This would be seen as a cynical move and completely at odds with the universal platform benefits of the SL. Hopefully there will be greater clarity from Leica on the matter.

Someone who decides to do strobe work may decide to pick up an S lens or two, but is unlikely to decide to blow another 17K on top for a S. To hope that S users who own CS lenses and who adopt the SL will then fork out for a range of SL (CS) lenses as well (assuming Leica makes some) would be equally absurd. Full utility of the S lens line up provides the most appeal. The products are already well differentiated by virtue of the size of the sensors, form factor and plethora of other differences.
I agree. This also leaves the door open for CaNikon to offer CS on a (hypothetical) 135-sized mirrorless camera and eat Leica's lunch.

I'm really keen to see how the high speed AF at 11 fps stacks up when shooting a fast moving subject.

Used for sports with a prototype 90-280 APO lens:

https://www.facebook.com/oliver.richter.509/posts/895510983863749
 
M

mjr

Guest
I agree too, this camera makes sense as an addition to existing kit but if CS isn't utilised then it's a fairly big negative whilst there are not many lenses available, i.e one! I can't see Profoto building an HSS/TTL controller for the SL either.

Mat
 

D&A

Well-known member
I agree. This also leaves the door open for CaNikon to offer CS on a (hypothetical) 135-sized mirrorless camera and eat Leica's lunch.




Used for sports with a prototype 90-280 APO lens:

https://www.facebook.com/oliver.richter.509/posts/895510983863749
Curious, what game is that? Ball seems only slightly bigger than a grapefruit and look at the last pic of on the court. Certainly not basketball or volleyball on a hard court???

Dave (D&A)
 

T.Dascalos

Not Available
Just saw the SL at Photo Plus in NYC. Got it straight from the horses mouth. The SL does NOT support central shutters with the adapter, and will not in the future via firmware. He said they wanted to leave a reason for somebody to get an S.
The S-adapter won't be released before spring 2016 (official Leica post on their page) and Leica claims "full compatibility with S lenses" - no other detail whatsoever... Given Leica's reputation of supporting customers needs to the maximum and the fact that if LS is not supported (while there is no technical reason not to) it will negatively affect SL 601 sales, S sales (given that pros don't buy one camera only) and S lenses sales (given that the camera can provide a cheaper step into building an S-system but a back-up to existing S too), I would take your "exclusive info" on the matter with a lot of salt....

It is usual during new camera promotions, that the people who present the product are not involved with the technical details of future development, so I find it hard to believe that if one asks "will the (coming in several months) S-adapter allow the SL to use the LS shutter of S lenses"? ...to get an answer (from a person that can't possibly know and only answers into what he is instructed to answer...), that would be "no, neither we will allow it via firmware update because we want to leave a reason (as if there aren't enough already) for one to buy an S body... In addition one has to think as to "why the S-adapter will be released with so much delay"... where to most obvious explanation should be that "Leica gives special attention to it as to provide full current and future compatibility with the S lenses"...
 
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