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Thread: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

  1. #51
    Senior Member Mike Woods's Avatar
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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    Godfrey, can I ask what shutter release you're using?

    Thanks

    Mike

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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Woods View Post
    Godfrey, can I ask what shutter release you're using?
    If you mean in the photo above with the M-P, it's a simple taper-threaded Leica shutter release cable that I've had for thirty years. I have three of them, one as old as 1957 from my Grandfather's M3 kit. They all fit the M-P perfectly.

    G

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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    Hi There - here are some shots from Venice with the SL and the 24-90 Vario Elmar.
    it seems to work!

    Click image for larger version. 

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    The Old Fools

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    Love in Venice

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    Companionship

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    Venice Reflection

    Just this guy you know
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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    Quote Originally Posted by Tim View Post
    Jono,

    I am going to assume Talk Talk you either missed focus or had camera shake, its not good on my monitor.
    Hi Tim
    It was a fraction of a second - the camera was in my hand, and I swung it up and took the shot - I don't think I'd finished swinging! (added to which it ws on Aperture priority at too small an aperture) but as they say, sharpness is a bourgeois concept, and I think the shot at least demonstrates that the SL can focus for those moments (even if the photographer is a fool!).

    Just this guy you know

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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    Hi Jono, I am enjoying your photos. Looks like you had some nice weather in Venice. I was there for 6 days in October and only saw blue skies and sunshine for one afternoon. Normally, I prefer dramatic weather for photography, but sunshine makes the reflections so much better in Venice. If you are still in the area you should take a water bus ride out to Burano. It is even more colorful than Venice.

    Mark
    Last edited by Mark Gowin; 5th November 2015 at 22:01. Reason: correct typo

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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Gowin View Post
    Hi Jono, I am enjoying your photos. Looks like you had some nice weather in Venice. I was there for 6 days in October and only saw blue skies and sunshine for one afternoon. Normally, I prefer dramatic weather for photography, but sunshine makes the reflections so much better in Venice. If you are still in the area you should take a water bus ride out to Burano. It is even more colorful than Venice.

    Mark
    Ah! Mark
    Funny you should mention that. We leave for Burano after breakfast (lunch at Romano and then a trip to Torchello)
    No trip to Venice is complete without a trip to Burano (and the sun is shining again!)

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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Ah! Mark
    Funny you should mention that. We leave for Burano after breakfast (lunch at Romano and then a trip to Torchello)
    No trip to Venice is complete without a trip to Burano (and the sun is shining again!)
    ....and afterwards you should try the worlds best piazza slices at the westside of Campo san Margherita, just the little store where you stand up, in front of the southerne benches
    ...but do not forget to go to Cantinone giá Schiavi and ask for a glass of white Fraggolino, its just across the gondola boatyard Squero di San Trovaso....
    best
    thorkil
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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    I hear first SLs are delivered in Germany. So anybody else here got one (I don't have one) and wants to share some more images and impressions?
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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    Quote Originally Posted by Paratom View Post
    I hear first SLs are delivered in Germany. So anybody else here got one (I don't have one) and wants to share some more images and impressions?
    There's at least one SL box opened in the UK, results seen on the LUF. But in the US, still no promises earlier than very late November.

    scott
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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    Quote Originally Posted by scott kirkpatrick View Post
    There's at least one SL box opened in the UK, results seen on the LUF. But in the US, still no promises earlier than very late November.
    My friend at the local dealer was muttering something about November 16 when I spoke with him yesterday. I'll be chatting with the Leica tech rep later today when I go see the demo SL. (I'm bringing along a card, the R8, a couple of lenses, and the M Adapter T — R Adapter M pair to see if I can get a few moments to snap some test exposures with my lenses.)

    G

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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    Quote Originally Posted by scott kirkpatrick View Post
    There's at least one SL box opened in the UK, results seen on the LUF. But in the US, still no promises earlier than very late November.

    scott
    The delivery and the SL image threads that you mention have been removed. I noticed a few complaints about image quality so logged in today to followup but both threads removed. Not sure whats happening but does not sound right. As someone who has preordered, it is not reassuring.

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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    Quote Originally Posted by sven View Post
    The delivery and the SL image threads that you mention have been removed. I noticed a few complaints about image quality so logged in today to followup but both threads removed. Not sure whats happening but does not sound right. As someone who has preordered, it is not reassuring.
    On which site were those posted?

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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    Fascinating. I read those threads on LUF last night as I'm awaiting delivery as well. Nothing seemed amiss with the samples that were posted (they looked quite good actually) except some light discussion about oversaturated reds on geraniums, and the possibility of some artifacts in OOF areas - nothing earth shattering there. For the most part it was quite positive, but there was a caveat the owner mentioned, that was still in the first days of testing, so admitted he wasn't being particularly objective being in the midst of initial excitement. Maybe he wasn't supposed to let on he got one early...

    Richard

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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    Strange stuff indeed.

    Regardless, I found the images that were posted quite nice for first results with a new camera.
    I look forward to seeing what the camera does in my hands.

    G

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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    Jono's pictures are still here, and he is using production equipment with firmware 1.1. Let's keep an eye on the LUF to make sure that the poster reappears in good health. I think his dealer may have violated his agreement by selling a unit that was intended for in store demos.

    scott

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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    sounds strange. a unit not meant for sale? Just to get it right: Leica present a new model, they are not able to supply it, but Leica Stores are forced to have the products in stock (I assume it is only valid as long as Leica is able to supply), and then finally one SL makes it to the store, but is not supposed to be sold? I assume it shall be use to present customers what they could buy if Leica could supply.
    I hope it is all not the case.

    I really like Leica products, but their sales and supply strategy is beyond what I can understand.

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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    Quote Originally Posted by Paratom View Post
    sounds strange. a unit not meant for sale? Just to get it right: Leica present a new model, they are not able to supply it, but Leica Stores are forced to have the products in stock (I assume it is only valid as long as Leica is able to supply), and then finally one SL makes it to the store, but is not supposed to be sold? I assume it shall be use to present customers what they could buy if Leica could supply.
    I hope it is all not the case.

    I really like Leica products, but their sales and supply strategy is beyond what I can understand.
    In order for product to be available on release day, it is often received by dealers several days before with the understanding that it is not to be shown or handed to customers until particular dates. This is just as true for Leica as it is for other big retailers (read Apple, Nikon, Canon, Toyota, any of them); its part of the marketing exposition.

    Occasionally a dealer makes a mistake and ships something ahead of the schedule. Then it's a bit of a mess and can result in strange things happening as they try to un-wind and avert the consequences. It's always a pain ...

    G

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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    In order for product to be available on release day, it is often received by dealers several days before with the understanding that it is not to be shown or handed to customers until particular dates. This is just as true for Leica as it is for other big retailers (read Apple, Nikon, Canon, Toyota, any of them); its part of the marketing exposition.

    Occasionally a dealer makes a mistake and ships something ahead of the schedule. Then it's a bit of a mess and can result in strange things happening as they try to un-wind and avert the consequences. It's always a pain ...

    G
    I thought release day of SL was last week. Anyways, as I said I like Leica products and product philosophy, but sometimes dont fully understand the marketing strategy.

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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    Quote Originally Posted by Paratom View Post
    I thought release day of SL was last week. Anyways, as I said I like Leica products and product philosophy, but sometimes dont get their marketing strategy.
    Announcement day (when the told the world about the product) was a couple-three weeks ago at the Leica "Das Wesentliche" event. It was also shown at the New York Photo Expo shortly thereafter.

    Release day (the day product is actually available to purchase) is nominally November 16 or 19 in the USA.

    -

    Just returned home from the camera shop and two hours playing with the Leica SL.
    The body is terrific: beautifully made, just the right size, very nice controls all well situated, etc.

    The 24-90 lens is large and heavy, but still has a terrific feel. The seems beautiful quality in the photos, etc. The AF inside the store, when I just snapped around a bit, focuses very fast and accurately. The 24-90 and SL body, the 90 and SL body, the 24 and SL body ... all seemed beautifully balanced and ready to use at a moment's notice.

    The viewfinder is as good for an EVF as the R8 viewfinder is for an SLR. Which means it's very, very good. Focusing the 24mm without any aids takes concentration and some learning time, just focusing it on a plain ground glass screen takes some effort; use magnification and it's a snap. Focusing the 90mm is a snap with no aids.

    The control setup is very nice indeed. It will take some time and study to fully understand it and configure it to my desires, but even with just ten minutes poking about, everything is logically arranged and easy to figure out. After ten minutes messing about, no button labels were needed, and never will be. All the controls fall nicely to hand, for my hands, and the camera is refreshingly simple and unadorned, no fluff or wasted features.

    I brought a card and my Elmarit-R 24 and Summicron-R 90 lenses, as well as the adapters. Stacking the adapters and fitting the lenses, there's neither anything loose nor anything too tight. It all fits and feels of a piece, made for each other.

    This is not a simple camera, it will take time to learn and become fully versed in all its capabilities and features, fully comfortable with. But once learned, it will work without distraction or confusion. It's a working camera, not a "for style" piece: solid, serious, and capable.

    Like it. Can't wait for it to arrive so I can get to work with it.

    G
    Godfrey - GDGPhoto Flickr Stream
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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    Announcement day (when the told the world about the product) was a couple-three weeks ago at the Leica "Das Wesentliche" event. It was also shown at the New York Photo Expo shortly thereafter.

    Release day (the day product is actually available to purchase) is nominally November 16 or 19 in the USA.

    -

    Just returned home from the camera shop and two hours playing with the Leica SL.
    The body is terrific: beautifully made, just the right size, very nice controls all well situated, etc.

    The 24-90 lens is large and heavy, but still has a terrific feel. The seems beautiful quality in the photos, etc. The AF inside the store, when I just snapped around a bit, focuses very fast and accurately. The 24-90 and SL body, the 90 and SL body, the 24 and SL body ... all seemed beautifully balanced and ready to use at a moment's notice.

    The viewfinder is as good for an EVF as the R8 viewfinder is for an SLR. Which means it's very, very good. Focusing the 24mm without any aids takes concentration and some learning time, just focusing it on a plain ground glass screen takes some effort; use magnification and it's a snap. Focusing the 90mm is a snap with no aids.

    The control setup is very nice indeed. It will take some time and study to fully understand it and configure it to my desires, but even with just ten minutes poking about, everything is logically arranged and easy to figure out. After ten minutes messing about, no button labels were needed, and never will be. All the controls fall nicely to hand, for my hands, and the camera is refreshingly simple and unadorned, no fluff or wasted features.

    I brought a card and my Elmarit-R 24 and Summicron-R 90 lenses, as well as the adapters. Stacking the adapters and fitting the lenses, there's neither anything loose nor anything too tight. It all fits and feels of a piece, made for each other.

    This is not a simple camera, it will take time to learn and become fully versed in all its capabilities and features, fully comfortable with. But once learned, it will work without distraction or confusion. It's a working camera, not a "for style" piece: solid, serious, and capable.

    Like it. Can't wait for it to arrive so I can get to work with it.

    G
    Thank you for the report! I think for people owning a lot of R glass the SL makes a lot of sense.
    Last edited by Paratom; 6th November 2015 at 14:31.

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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    Not helpful
    Last edited by Bob; 7th November 2015 at 06:49.

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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    That's it. Keep up with your Sony proselytizing, even in threads in a Leica forum that have nothing to do with it, and poison all of GetDPI. I'm sure Jack, Guy, and Bob will love your efforts here. Hell, they'll probably just ban me again, so just go on to your hearts content. Why should I care?
    Godfrey,

    I think that the froth over Sony will be short lived ... and everyone gets to pick their favorite camera ... poison ... passion.

    Glad to hear that the camera will work for you ... Jono's pictures are stunning and if you have glass it will be a great success.

    Bob
    Last edited by docmoore; 7th November 2015 at 00:48.
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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    Just returned home from the camera shop and two hours playing with the Leica SL.
    The body is terrific: beautifully made, just the right size, very nice controls all well situated, etc.

    The 24-90 lens is large and heavy, but still has a terrific feel. The seems beautiful quality in the photos, etc. The AF inside the store, when I just snapped around a bit, focuses very fast and accurately. The 24-90 and SL body, the 90 and SL body, the 24 and SL body ... all seemed beautifully balanced and ready to use at a moment's notice.

    G
    I echo these comments. Played with it at the Tokyo Launch last night and it felt very good and solid. People coming from the S will be familiar with the feel and will like it I think. I tested the Cine lenses (Super friendly Rep was present to show Video) and I also used an older 50 Summicron-R which was a breeze to focus and made the camera look much more compact (even more than my previous R's). Overall I was quite happy with it.
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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    Quote Originally Posted by Paratom View Post
    sounds strange. a unit not meant for sale? Just to get it right: Leica present a new model, they are not able to supply it, but Leica Stores are forced to have the products in stock (I assume it is only valid as long as Leica is able to supply), and then finally one SL makes it to the store, but is not supposed to be sold? I assume it shall be use to present customers what they could buy if Leica could supply.
    I hope it is all not the case.

    I really like Leica products, but their sales and supply strategy is beyond what I can understand.
    I did contact the member who started the threads that got deleted in LUF. He could not go into details but appears to be an embargo issue till 11/16. He requested the threads be deleted for this specific reason. He reiterated that he had no issues and absolutely loves the camera and lens combo.
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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    Quote Originally Posted by docmoore View Post
    ?..
    I think that the froth over Sony will be short lived ... and everyone gets to pick their favorite camera ... poison ... passion.

    Glad to here that the camera will work for you ... Jono's pictures are stunning and if you have glass it will be a great success.
    I guess you're right, Bob. I mean, it's only another three weeks to the next Sony announcement now ... Right?

    The SL firmware is young but the camera looks to be very capable as is. I can imagine several configuration options that should be easy to add via firmware updates going forward while the hardware seems very well thought out for a long and solid future in use. That's a great value proposition. The 24-90 lens looks great, with state of the art features and performance; it harbingers great things to come for the new lenses designed for the SL that are in the pipeline. Meanwhile, my R lens kit looks like it will excel on this body.

    I am really looking forward to testing everything and putting it all to work.

    G
    Godfrey - GDGPhoto Flickr Stream
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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    Quote Originally Posted by sven View Post
    I did contact the member who started the threads that got deleted in LUF. He could not go into details but appears to be an embargo issue till 11/16. He requested the threads be deleted for this specific reason. He reiterated that he had no issues and absolutely loves the camera and lens combo.
    Thanks for doing that and reporting back.

    G

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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    DELETED -- not helpful
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    OK, now that I read Guy's comments I will chime in.

    I believe that 24 MP is lame in this day and age. The simple fact is that Leica has themselves boxed in with new cameras what with their flagship S fixed at 37.5 MP.

    The SL sounds superb, but if I am printing 24"x 60" prints (stitched) I might surely need more MP than 24 after cropping too. IBIS seems the best anti shake approach to me, but for the SL they decided to go with in lens stabilization. Maybe it is fine, but if in body stabilization is used then ALL lenses used on it could benefit.

    I do find all too often SL comparisons with the A7 or A7R are weak versus the latest and greatest from each manufacturer. Who wants to buy an old model from XYZ company when shopping for an SL. Up and down rezing do complicate any comparisons so show me some prints. I guess I should just print some RAWS myself. Guess I answered that question all by my lonesome.
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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

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    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    Right now, no one can have fun with the SL (since none have shipped yet baring one in the UK) except for Jono. Just give it a few more weeks and the images should start pouring in.

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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Thats your choice but don't leave it up to me. Actually do me a big favor and do leave. Your whining is tiresome. I don't have the time nor do I care if your here. Your welcome has worn out for me. I'm done
    I cannot believe you deleted my and Sven's reply just because we said that Godfrey was right... What is wrong with you?

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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    DELETED -- not helpful
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

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    Now the rules


    1) Keep your discussions polite, fun and on topic. In short, act like you would at a friend's dinner party. Arguing, rudeness, generally poor or negative behavior will be dealt with at moderator discretion as they see fit. This may result in the offending post(s) or entire thread(s) being deleted with or without explanation, and/or the offending poster(s) being banned or having their accounts suspended or erased. Note that broader topical and emotional latitude is tolerated in the "Sunset Bar" forum, but decisions on thread or post appropriateness remain at moderator discretion there as well.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    Please continue on folks with this thread. Thank You
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    Quote Originally Posted by algrove View Post
    OK, now that I read Guy's comments I will chime in.

    I believe that 24 MP is lame in this day and age. The simple fact is that Leica has themselves boxed in with new cameras what with their flagship S fixed at 37.5 MP.

    The SL sounds superb, but if I am printing 24"x 60" prints (stitched) I might surely need more MP than 24 after cropping too. IBIS seems the best anti shake approach to me, but for the SL they decided to go with in lens stabilization. Maybe it is fine, but if in body stabilization is used then ALL lenses used on it could benefit.
    Hi there
    I think the primary motivation with the SL was speed, and it might be better to be thinking along the lines of the D4s (16mp) than the Sony A7r2. It seems you can't have it all ways! I also wonder about microlens design and M lens compatability (but I don't know).

    Personally I don't think I've ever taken a picture that deserved more than 24mp and I enjoy the faster processing of the smaller files in Lightroom.

    I agree with you about IBIS but I do wonder a little about resilience and alignment on those wobbly sensors!

    To be honest, the more I use the camera the more I realise that the Sony comparisons are fairly irrelevant. This is designed to be a solid and reliable workhorse rather than a technological experiment. . . . . They've put all their efforts into what really matters when you're shooting: the viewfinder and the responsivenessand and in both of these categories comparisons with the Canon and Nikon workhorses seems more appropriate.

    .......... And I'll miss Godfrey's contributions. Most of us lose it from time to time. Come back soon!

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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    Morning

    I could be alone here but I just don't get image stabilisation in this era of superb high iso, maybe I'm jaded by my experience with the only lens I have used with IS, a Nikkor 200 f2 which was to blame for what could have been a superb shot of a reindeer backlit at dawn, swung the camera up whilst upping the shutter speed, brought to my eye and shot before the IS settled and had a strange double image, immediately turned the IS off and never ever used it again! An instance of technology getting in the way. I can understand on monster lenses but having read these forums for a long time, it seems that most legacy lenses that people are enthusiastic about are shorter and personally I would much rather chose a higher ISO or even under expose a couple of stops and recover in post as almost every sensor available now has amazing file flexibility.

    As for 24mp, the vast majority of images posted on this forum for example are never destined for anything more than web use and rightly so in my opinion! There are far more people in my view who enjoy grabbing the camera whilst walking the dog or on a weekend when not working and who just like the process and taking snapshots of family and stuff than dedicated landscape photographers looking to print 60" shots, there are options for all types. 24mp is a really nice combination of reasonable file size, nice big pixels and the ability to print as large as the majority of normal people have space for in their houses, what's not to like?

    The positives of the SL for me would be for event work where the 1 native lens currently available would probably be the only lens needed but I am looking from a commercial point of view so expect there are people who have their own reasons for liking it or not. Negatives for me would be the EVF which I just don't like on other cameras but willing to try it and always open to change.

    Anyway, I decided long ago that the camera needs to work but good photographs only come from pointing it at beautiful things, the only people focussed on the minutiae of sharpness, mp's etc are other photographers and speaking personally here, other photographers are not my market for selling prints or commercial work!

    Have a nice weekend.

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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    Quote Originally Posted by mjr View Post
    Morning

    I could be alone here but I just don't get image stabilisation in this era of superb high iso, maybe I'm jaded by my experience with the only lens I have used with IS, a Nikkor 200 f2 which was to blame for what could have been a superb shot of a reindeer backlit at dawn, swung the camera up whilst upping the shutter speed, brought to my eye and shot before the IS settled and had a strange double image, immediately turned the IS off and never ever used it again! An instance of technology getting in the way. I can understand on monster lenses but having read these forums for a long time, it seems that most legacy lenses that people are enthusiastic about are shorter and personally I would much rather chose a higher ISO or even under expose a couple of stops and recover in post as almost every sensor available now has amazing file flexibility.

    As for 24mp, the vast majority of images posted on this forum for example are never destined for anything more than web use and rightly so in my opinion! There are far more people in my view who enjoy grabbing the camera whilst walking the dog or on a weekend when not working and who just like the process and taking snapshots of family and stuff than dedicated landscape photographers looking to print 60" shots, there are options for all types. 24mp is a really nice combination of reasonable file size, nice big pixels and the ability to print as large as the majority of normal people have space for in their houses, what's not to like?

    The positives of the SL for me would be for event work where the 1 native lens currently available would probably be the only lens needed but I am looking from a commercial point of view so expect there are people who have their own reasons for liking it or not. Negatives for me would be the EVF which I just don't like on other cameras but willing to try it and always open to change.

    Anyway, I decided long ago that the camera needs to work but good photographs only come from pointing it at beautiful things, the only people focussed on the minutiae of sharpness, mp's etc are other photographers and speaking personally here, other photographers are not my market for selling prints or commercial work!

    Have a nice weekend.

    Mat
    Great Post Mat
    I've got some 40" prints made from old Olympus E1 (5mp?) shots - they look just fine . . . . 24mp is certainly enough for 60" prints in most circumstances.

    I've shot 2 events with the SL, and the 24-90 covers most bases admirably (add in a couple of MF primes for good measure) . . . interesting remark about image stabilisation settling - it might easily to be to blame for the shot further up with the girl on the phone and her shadow . . where I swung the camera up to grab the shot. I shall be turning it off unless I need it.

    EVF - perhaps this one is the one to convince you - certainly it's better for manual focus than an SLR . . . and this might just be the point where the exposure and white balance wyswg of the EVF outpoints the nicer feel of an optical finder. . . . . . but it takes time to get comfortable, that's for sure.

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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    Here are a couple of snap-shots from Burano yesterday
    All with the 24-90 Vario-Elmar

    Attachment 113993
    Sunset on the Lagoon

    Attachment 113994
    Evening reflection

    Attachment 113995
    splash of sunlight

    Attachment 113996
    cameras at sunset

    Attachment 113997
    blue fault line


    Attachment 113998
    Mop and Corner


    Attachment 113999
    Burano

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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Hi there
    I think the primary motivation with the SL was speed, and it might be better to be thinking along the lines of the D4s (16mp) than the Sony A7r2. It seems you can't have it all ways! I also wonder about microlens design and M lens compatability (but I don't know).

    Personally I don't think I've ever taken a picture that deserved more than 24mp and I enjoy the faster processing of the smaller files in Lightroom.

    I agree with you about IBIS but I do wonder a little about resilience and alignment on those wobbly sensors!

    To be honest, the more I use the camera the more I realise that the Sony comparisons are fairly irrelevant. This is designed to be a solid and reliable workhorse rather than a technological experiment. . . . . They've put all their efforts into what really matters when you're shooting: the viewfinder and the responsivenessand and in both of these categories comparisons with the Canon and Nikon workhorses seems more appropriate.

    .......... And I'll miss Godfrey's contributions. Most of us lose it from time to time. Come back soon!
    I agree with Jono here that speed seems one important factor in the design of the SL.
    However I also believe that the S line with its 36MP could have effected the decission to got for 24MP.

    I dont know yet what the SL really is.
    Is it a A7II with a more solid built and simpler user interface?
    Or is it a D750 with an EVF?
    Or is it a modern Leica R with EVF?
    A small S with a less IQ but more speed?

    It seems to work with all kinds of Leica lenses, but then most Leica lenses seem to make most sense on their original body (M on M , S on S, T on T) except R where we actually dont have an actual R body.

    SO in the end I find it hard to compare directly to anything else. IMO it is a very interesting combination.
    Since it is more expensive than other options I am looking forward to see how it compares in regards of handling and IQ.
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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    Jono, EVF is a really odd thing for me, I am happy to say I don't get it! There are many ways to shoot and many people with differing requirements so I can only speak for myself but I have a very specific way of working which is probably different to others here.

    In the context of landscape, architecture and the like, my aim is almost always to have everything sharp in the scene, I have separated focus from everything else, it is not, for me, anything to do with subject or composition, it is purely a function of aperture and focus distance and as such, I have no need for either OVF or EVF, I know where to focus based on experience and actually with the 007, the biggest advancement for me is the depth of field scale, it means I don't even have to look through the viewfinder at all! I read people say that they couldn't have got a shot at night or in a dark building without the benefits of evf and it makes no sense to me because I shoot at night and in dark buildings all the time and never ever get a shot out of focus. It's just knowing your equipment.

    The wysiwyg thing also doesn't make sense to me, I have never yet seen an evf capable of showing the dynamic range the sensor can capture, this may be different with the SL so all I am seeing is an approximation of the exposure of the scene, I am sure that you are like me Jono in that in general you know what settings you will use when you see a scene, I have shot enough to know what my camera will do and in most cameras the small exposure scale is pretty accurate so I'm not sure of the benefit of the evf in this regard, especially as in high contrast scenes you are usually missing detail in either highlights or shadows or both, something you just don't have with an ovf, you are seeing what your eyes see.

    For portraits and wide open stuff then I am lucky that I have an S, it is so easy to see what is in focus that it's just simple to use, in these instances I can see how some will like being able to zoom in for mf but I really hate losing the whole image, I like to see what is happening all around plus by the time you have zoomed back out again it's likely that people have moved or you have swayed a bit so for me, seeing the whole scene with a good ovf is currently better for me.

    I am sure there will be situations like with t/s lenses where there are benefits but even then, it takes very little time to know that for example, on a full height tripod at f5.6 I only need 1 degree of tilt to get a sharp frame. Removing the mirror box on cameras that would otherwise have shutter shake is obviously a benefit but it doesn't always help the issue as with the earlier A7's, I never see shutter shock in any of my images so a non issue for me. There are people who shoot still life and studio stuff who may well see real benefits but whenever I shoot those small jobs I am tethered anyway.

    I read people say that some evf is now getting close to ovf, I don't personally see an advantage so it is solving problems that don't exist for me so I accept that it isn't yet for me. There are many people who want smaller cameras and no doubt it aids that but I don't care about the size or weight so it doesn't help me there either, that could obviously change as I get older!

    Anyway, I like that there is choice and something no matter what your preference, I will definitely look at the SL in a while once there are more native lenses or at least an S adapter available but until then I'm happy to look at the nice shots taken with it.

    Mat
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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    Had a play with an SL yesterday. The camera is really great, of course it is what one expects from the Leica name and it is easy to hold for me, albeit a bit (too) heavy with the kit zoom attached.

    WRT EVF - this is for sur the best EVF currently available, especially when it comes to resolution (detail) and size of the viewed image. BUT WRT dynamic range it is still way behind a great OVF (Leica S, Nikon D810, etc.). Sure I could live with it, but IMHO there is still way to go till EVF will equal OVF. My personal opinion maybe at least 4 years out. This is also one of the major reasons why I came back to Nikon FF (D810).
    Life is an ever changing journey
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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    WRT EVF - this is for sur the best EVF currently available, especially when it comes to resolution (detail) and size of the viewed image. BUT WRT dynamic range it is still way behind a great OVF (Leica S, Nikon D810, etc.). Sure I could live with it, but IMHO there is still way to go till EVF will equal OVF. My personal opinion maybe at least 4 years out. This is also one of the major reasons why I came back to Nikon FF (D810).
    Hi Peter
    Optical viewfinders don't show you the dynamic range you're going to get In the image either, but the DR your eyes can manage. Arguably that in an EVF is more representative.
    But personally I never give DR a thought when I'm shooting - after all, I can't change what the camera gives me! There's more important things to think about

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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    [QUOTE=jonoslack;668003]Here are a couple of snap-shots from Burano yesterday
    All with the 24-90 Vario-Elmar

    cant see them...
    thorkil

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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    Are we having fun yet?

    I don't get all the kerfuffle. Point/counter point ... what's the point?

    Most people here seem pretty smart, and there is a lot of talent exhibited on GetDpi. We all make our own choices to fulfill our artistic vision or meet specific task oriented requirements ... because it is OUR personal vision or requirements, not someone else's.

    In other words, the "State of the Art in Gear" doesn't necessarily translate into "Art" the same way for each individual.

    This Leica SL seems a good choice for those who would like the benefits of mirrorless technology, have defined their needs, and do not need what other choices may offer.

    I feel the same way about my S(006) system. I had 40 and 60 meg 645 (and had a H5D/200MS on order) ... but my needs changed, and the larger than 35mm, 38 meg of the S is now perfect for most everything I need to accomplish. More importantly, it has the feature set and interface I enjoy using, and does a few things that 35mm DSLR or Mirror-less cameras can not do. The few speculative times that I may ever need more, I'll just rent it ... so far, after years with the S, I've had no need to rent anything. Not one time.

    The SL appears to be positioned for swift operation (swift for a mirror-less), seems to have less lag than I've experienced from mirror-less, is solidly built and weather proofed, offers the security of dual card capture with a streamlined interface. More than enough resolution for some, deficient for others.

    The real question is ... how honest are we in ascertaining what we really need to do our Art or perform our tasks?

    For me the SL would be a perfect choice of a mirror-less camera. Unfortunately, I'll have to wait for a mirror-less solution with those attributes that fits my cost threshold for such a camera because I'd rather have a 24mm for my S.

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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    [QUOTE=Thorkil;668015]
    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Here are a couple of snap-shots from Burano yesterday
    All with the 24-90 Vario-Elmar

    cant see them...
    thorkil
    Funny that
    they were there half an hour ago.
    I added them as attachments so I don't know what's happened!

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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    [QUOTE=jonoslack;668017]
    Quote Originally Posted by Thorkil View Post

    Funny that
    they were there half an hour ago.
    I added them as attachments so I don't know what's happened!

    better post them directly?
    (would like to see them)

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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    When I went from many years from optical to a radical system switch to EVF at first it was how they function that got me really excited but it takes a little time to the hang of EVF but more important your brain to understand what's it's seeing. I really love it now and in my head it's not a optical vs EVF it just all blended together. So it was a easy transition from being trained so long on a optical. The good news as more OEMs start going to EVF it will keep getting better. Glad to see or better said hear the SL is supposed to be pretty good. Like to see how they did at some point.

    Btw I got lost when this is supposed to be out in the wild. Time table anyone
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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    Quote Originally Posted by Paratom View Post
    I dont know yet what the SL really is.
    Is it a A7II with a more solid built and simpler user interface?
    Or is it a D750 with an EVF?
    Or is it a modern Leica R with EVF?
    A small S with a less IQ but more y.

    SO in the end I find it hard to compare directly to anything else. IMO it is a very interesting combination.
    Since it is more expensive than other options I am looking forward to see how it compares in regards of handling and IQ.
    Hi Tom
    I think it's all of those things. For me I think it's what I need when I'm not shooting with an M.

    I don't think they restricted the MP so as not to compete with the S. I really think that they reckon 24mp is the right compromise with full frame. I'm pretty sure they're right from a technical point of view........whether it's right from a commercial point of view is another matter altogether!

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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Here are a couple of snap-shots from Burano yesterday
    All with the 24-90 Vario-Elmar

    Attachment 113993
    Sunset on the Lagoon

    Attachment 113994
    Evening reflection

    Attachment 113995
    splash of sunlight

    Attachment 113996
    cameras at sunset

    Attachment 113997
    blue fault line


    Attachment 113998
    Mop and Corner


    Attachment 113999
    Burano

    Not seeing them either
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