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Thread: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Are we having fun yet?

    This Leica SL seems a good choice for those who would like the benefits of mirrorless technology, have defined their needs, and do not need what other choices may offer.

    - Marc
    I'm having fun
    Good take Marc.
    It suits me really well. The kit zoom does a great job, both for travel and for what little event work I still do then I have a selection of M and R lenses for when I need them. But perhaps the real crack is that it really is fun to use. it gets out of your way and allows you to take pictures. This trip to Venice has got me a number of shots that I simple would have missed with most other cameras.

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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Not seeing them either
    Hi Guy
    not sure what to do next: I uploaded them as attachments to the message and they showed up then. Now they're gone?

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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    Jono, trying to see your latest image postings and "invalid attachment" comes up. Can you re-post some way?

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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Hi Peter
    Optical viewfinders don't show you the dynamic range you're going to get In the image either, but the DR your eyes can manage. Arguably that in an EVF is more representative.
    But personally I never give DR a thought when I'm shooting - after all, I can't change what the camera gives me! There's more important things to think about
    This is my point exactly, everyone totes wysiwyg as a real benefit but it's not showing you, it's showing a representation that doesn't match what the sensor is actually seeing because it can't display all the information so what's the point? Might as well just have an OVF that at least you can see the entire scene and use it to accurately frame the image.

    Anyway, as long as you get what you want from the camera then that's all that matters.

    Mat
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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post

    .......... And I'll miss Godfrey's contributions. Most of us lose it from time to time. Come back soon!
    +1 I as well will miss your input Godfrey. Things seems to have escalated a bit further from where they should have. Hope you return.
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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    Let's Try Again
    Here are some shots from Burano (maybe)

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    Sunset in the lagoon (with the 55-135 T lens)

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    Burano Sunset

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    Splish Splash

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    Cameras at Sunset

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    Blue Rift

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    Mop Corner

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    Burano

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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    Quote Originally Posted by mjr View Post
    This is my point exactly, everyone totes wysiwyg as a real benefit but it's not showing you, it's showing a representation that doesn't match what the sensor is actually seeing because it can't display all the information so what's the point?

    Mat
    HI Mat
    Well 4mp out of 24 is giving you a pretty good representation of what you are actually going to get - an optical viewfinder is lovely, but it's nothing at all what you're going to get.

    80 percent right is better than 40 percent right!

    But there are still arguments for an optical finder - they just seem less imperative these days.

    all the best
    Jon

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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post

    Btw I got lost when this is supposed to be out in the wild. Time table anyone
    There's enough stock on hand that there seem to be demo cameras in many stores. People have walked in and come away enthusiastic in the UK, in Germany, in Palo Alto, in Miami... The official day for opening the packages under the tree is Nov 16, give or take a few in each country, but a shop in the UK slipped up, and one happy customer was showing his elegant just-opened boxes, charging the battery and posting some nice snaps on the LUF a few days ago. He has since gone underground and will undoubtedly have much more to show in two weeks. It does sound as if Leica has made an effort to get a rapid early deployment, and is now managing expectations so that there will be lines outside the Leicastores a la Apple on opening day.

    scott

    (edit I do hope that even under intensive interrogation he still refused to reveal the name of his dealer.
    Last edited by scott kirkpatrick; 7th November 2015 at 09:40.
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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    Hmm, well I can appreciate that it works for some, just not for me, luckily I can visualise the image quite well through an OVF and use the computer to create the look I want from the RAW data, a low res jpeg version of the file displayed in the viewfinder is worth nothing to me. Maybe we can get Adobe involved, have a lightroom equipped evf so I can get the screen to show raised shadows, increased sharpness, a change in saturation etc. then I don't even need a computer!

    Nice shots by the way, can see them now!

    Mat
    http://matrichardson.com/
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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    HI Mat
    Well 4mp out of 24 is giving you a pretty good representation of what you are actually going to get -

    Jon
    Unless I have someone who will pay for a big print, or am out for serious pixel peeping, I usually set my output scale to 50%. That's 4 MPx from an M43 and 6 MPx from the Leicas. It will be great to see all that while shooting.

    scott
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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Hi Guy
    not sure what to do next: I uploaded them as attachments to the message and they showed up then. Now they're gone?
    Hmmmm.
    I am checking what happened.
    -bob

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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob View Post
    Hmmmm.
    I am checking what happened.
    -bob
    Thanks Bob.
    I was probably being a Wasack!
    best Jono

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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    OK folks, lets all calm down.
    This thread is titled "Fun with the Leica SL (digital)"
    As with all of the other "fun with..." threads I expect that this will be about experiences and more importantly photos with the subject camera.
    Comparisons of this or that are not welcome and will be marked off-topic and possibly deleted.
    I feel that we are losing the battle slowly concerning keeping this a calm and constructive forum.
    I really hate swinging the hammer but it seems that my recent laxity in this regard has caused the forum to drift in the wrong direction.
    Now some will complain about issues they may perceive as limiting free speech, but unfortunately that is part of the price of admission.
    Some folks like red wine, some white while some like any wine and some just whine.
    There are 105 banned users in the last year. Yes it gets tiresome.
    We would appreciate your cooperation.
    thanks
    -bob
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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    Quote Originally Posted by mjr View Post
    ... get Adobe involved, have a lightroom equipped evf so I can get the screen to show raised shadows, increased sharpness, a change in saturation etc. then I don't even need a computer!

    Mat
    Actually, I haven't played around with this much, but I have always understood that if you set the camera up for RAW + JPG that then controls for lowering contrast, increasing saturation, and other stuff that affects the jpeg but not the raw file would also be reflected on the EVF. But does it stay in effect when you switch back to raw file only?

    scott

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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Thanks Bob.
    I was probably being a Wasack!
    best Jono
    Could it have been more than about 10 minutes from when the attachments were uploaded to the point where you actually submitted the post?
    The logs look like the attachments were auto-deleted since they timed-out without being attached to a post.
    -bob

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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob View Post
    Could it have been more than about 10 minutes from when the attachments were uploaded to the point where you actually submitted the post?
    The logs look like the attachments were auto-deleted since they timed-out without being attached to a post.
    -bob
    It's certainly possible. As usual I was trying to do 3 things at once!
    At any rate, they seem to have "stuck" this time.
    Best

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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    Are we having a pissing competition here, and I'm not even invited? No, no, no, no, no...

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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    I would love to get my hands on one for a test drive.
    EVFs are getting better. The first ones I tried just distorted colors so badly that I immediately rejected the experience. Since then, and with various experiments, I have found that I prefer those I have tried to use the raw+jpeg modes and to set the jpegs to B&W. That I found to be far more usable. It could be related to the fact that I end up finishing many of my images in B&W and somehow just can judge the results better.
    I am sure that one of these days I will flip over to be an EVF devotee perhaps once I have tried out the latest batch.
    -bob
    Last edited by Bob; 7th November 2015 at 07:39.
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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    I agree with you Bob that there are applications where it has a benefit for sure, black and white evf may well be one of those. I'm looking forward to picking up a camera with evf and thinking wow, now I understand how it can benefit my photography, not done that yet but the SL might be that camera.

    Mat

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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    Are we having a pissing competition here, and I'm not even invited? No, no, no, no, no...
    Yup, as the joke goes, the water under the bridge is cold....and deep
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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob View Post
    OK folks, lets all calm down.
    This thread is titled "Fun with the Leica SL (digital)"
    As with all of the other "fun with..." threads I expect that this will be about experiences and more importantly photos with the subject camera.
    Comparisons of this or that are not welcome and will be marked off-topic and possibly deleted.
    I feel that we are losing the battle slowly concerning keeping this a calm and constructive forum.
    I really hate swinging the hammer but it seems that my recent laxity in this regard has caused the forum to drift in the wrong direction.
    Now some will complain about issues they may perceive as limiting free speech, but unfortunately that is part of the price of admission.
    Some folks like red wine, some white while some like any wine and some just whine.
    There are 105 banned users in the last year. Yes it gets tiresome.
    We would appreciate your cooperation.
    thanks
    -bob
    I am 110% with Bob on this. This situation has become ridiculous, with many seasoned members taking part who should know better. And for whatever reason the worst offenders are the Sony and Leica adherents, and almost always when one or the other populates the other's system thread with the "my camera choice is better than yours because..." crap. Seriously folks, grow up, they're just freaking cameras! I am going to start giving anybody making inflammatory cross-system forum posts a 7-day time out -- without explanation -- even if they're a Mod or Admin!

    Says the now groggy giant.

    ]heavy-handed moderation[
    Jack
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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob View Post
    Yup, as the joke goes, the water under the bridge is cold....and deep
    Often when I read thread like this, where people are aggressively defending or promoting "their" camera brand or camera, I find some old photo book, look through some of the amazingly great work that was done with very simple cameras and a roll of Tri-X, and I ask myself: would this or these photos have been better or told a more interesting story if they had been taken with Brand X new Hypersonic Camera with Supereliptical sensor and 5-dimesional rendering? The answer is always no. Always.

    And although I have been involved in heated arguments on this forum myself, I mostly end up finding that my current camera is the best I have, and that it will probably outlast me, or at least last until next week, month or year. Orsomething...
    Things I sell: Stock photography by Jorgen Udvang at Alamy
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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    HI Mat
    Well 4mp out of 24 is giving you a pretty good representation of what you are actually going to get - an optical viewfinder is lovely, but it's nothing at all what you're going to get.

    80 percent right is better than 40 percent right!

    But there are still arguments for an optical finder - they just seem less imperative these days.

    all the best
    Jon
    Here I have a different opinion and believe that if I know my sensor a little bit and do have a look on the histogramm here and then seeing the real light and color through an optical viewfinder allows me better control of what I get in the end.

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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    On the other side a little discussion coming from the stomach/heart is more interesting than just "ah, what a nice image".
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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    Quote Originally Posted by Paratom View Post
    On the other side a little discussion coming from the stomach/heart is more interesting than just "ah, what a nice image".
    As long as it's done per the rules -- the same ones Guy shared earlier in this thread. And right now, the slightest hint that one is pushing the boundary of that rule means a timeout.
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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    Quote Originally Posted by Paratom View Post
    Here I have a different opinion and believe that if I know my sensor a little bit and do have a look on the histogramm here and then seeing the real light and color through an optical viewfinder allows me better control of what I get in the end.
    It really does take all types

    I never have a histogram up on the screen - whether I shoot EVF or optical (distracting to interpret). . . actually, I don't usually have any information up - I just look at the screen (optical or evf) and concentrate on the subject and the composition . . . . . . . which, I suppose, is why I like an EVF which is showing the actual exposure and dof - all the information I need!

    all the best

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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    One last comment there are a lot of things going on through PMs and emails that are not made public so actions taken are based on many factors. Im not the bad guy nor are other admins or mods. You may think we are but we are just going by our rules laid out and reacting to what is in front of us. In the end we take the heat and may look bad, so be it as we can't control that.

    With that Im on a project starting today and after being threatened by a member its time for me to take a break. Be well everyone
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    I'm pretty sure the aggressive posts were all done 12 hours ago, things move fast on forums! It's an interesting discussion and some nice images now, would be good to continue in that vein.

    I agree with you Tom but I can imagine a lot of people like the idea of seeing what they are photographing closer to how the sensor is exposing it but for me it seems like a high price to pay for a nice clear and uncluttered view for composition.

    Jono, what happens with the SL on high frame rates? Does it stay live throughout the shots or black out between each one or stay black during the whole sequence?

    Mat
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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    It really does take all types

    I never have a histogram up on the screen - whether I shoot EVF or optical (distracting to interpret). . . actually, I don't usually have any information up - I just look at the screen (optical or evf) and concentrate on the subject and the composition . . . . . . . which, I suppose, is why I like an EVF which is showing the actual exposure and dof - all the information I need!

    all the best
    Well, I get along well with the T viewfinder (and the SL should be even better).
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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    One last comment there are a lot of things going on through PMs and emails that are not made public so actions taken are based on many factors. Im not the bad guy nor are other admins or mods. You may think we are but we are just going by our rules laid out and reacting to what is in front of us. In the end we take the heat and may look bad, so be it as we can't control that.

    With that Im on a project starting today and after being threatened by a member its time for me to take a break. Be well everyone
    ...threats are way over the edge...we are all grown up people, and not teenagers anymore, any sudden pop-up frustrations we have control and count to ten, leave the screen, and take a walk, until the inside waterlevel have become horisontal again..support herefrom, Guy
    thorkil
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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    Quote Originally Posted by mjr View Post
    I'm pretty sure the aggressive posts were all done 12 hours ago, things move fast on forums! It's an interesting discussion and some nice images now, would be good to continue in that vein.
    I thought so too - trying to re-centre the discussion here!
    Quote Originally Posted by mjr View Post
    I agree with you Tom but I can imagine a lot of people like the idea of seeing what they are photographing closer to how the sensor is exposing it but for me it seems like a high price to pay for a nice clear and uncluttered view for composition.
    Interesting - but I don't think I pay any price - As I say, I have the EVF clear of everything most of the time (even Aperture/shutter speed information) because I like to have a nice uncluttered view so as to be able to concentrate on composition . . . and I can forget about the exposure / dof side of things - . . unless it's wrong (in which case I can see).
    Perhaps we all have the same aim, just with different ways of doing it!
    Quote Originally Posted by mjr View Post
    Jono, what happens with the SL on high frame rates? Does it stay live throughout the shots or black out between each one or stay black during the whole sequence?
    Mat
    No blackout - it stays live and get's slightly jerky - but quite usable - even at 11 fps (would anyone really use that except to find out whether it blacks out

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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    A couple from today (sorry - more reflections, but they're unmissable!).

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    Reflection

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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    [QUOTE=jonoslack;668085]A couple from today (sorry - more reflections, but they're unmissable!).

    ..fantastic presence, sharpness and liveliness !!!
    thorkil

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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    I thought so too - trying to re-centre the discussion here!


    Interesting - but I don't think I pay any price - As I say, I have the EVF clear of everything most of the time (even Aperture/shutter speed information) because I like to have a nice uncluttered view so as to be able to concentrate on composition . . . and I can forget about the exposure / dof side of things - . . unless it's wrong (in which case I can see).
    Perhaps we all have the same aim, just with different ways of doing it!


    No blackout - it stays live and get's slightly jerky - but quite usable - even at 11 fps (would anyone really use that except to find out whether it blacks out
    Thanks Jono. For sure at least most of us have the same aim and different is good! There's no such thing as a single solution, finding what you like is always the key.

    I really like that black and white shot, excellent composition and conversion, very nice.

    Mat

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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    Quote Originally Posted by mjr View Post
    I really like that black and white shot, excellent composition and conversion, very nice.

    Mat
    Thank you - I use silver efex pro . . . . actually I was a bit torn as I think it works in colour too:


    Click image for larger version. 

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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    Jono, The colors are vibrant and the silverefex conversion didn't work, iMO.

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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Let's Try Again
    Here are some shots from Burano (maybe)

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    Sunset in the lagoon (with the 55-135 T lens)
    Thanks Jono. This is my favorite of the ones you posted here.
    I love the composition, the light, the colors, the mood!
    A timeless image.
    Last edited by k-hawinkler; 7th November 2015 at 12:49.
    With best regards, K-H.

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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    Why do I feel that we're seeing 90% Jono and 10% Leica?

    Exceeding your usual high standard, Mr. S.

    M
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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Jono, The colors are vibrant and the silverefex conversion didn't work, iMO.
    Hi Vivek . . . . I'm inclined to agree, especially as you can't see the smoke in the black and white version

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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    Quote Originally Posted by MGrayson View Post
    Why do I feel that we're seeing 90% Jono and 10% Leica?

    Exceeding your usual high standard, Mr. S.

    M
    Thank You! I'm trying really hard . . . but so is the SL, and it does come up to the mark whenever requested. . . . . . .

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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    Quote Originally Posted by k-hawinkler View Post
    Thanks Jono. This is my favorite of the ones you posted here.
    I love the composition, the light, the colors, the mood!
    A timeless image.
    Thanks K-H - in fact, I think this was taken with the 55-135, but I like it too.

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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Hi Vivek . . . . I'm inclined to agree, especially as you can't see the smoke in the black and white version
    Better tonality in color. Lovely capture.
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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    I thought so too - trying to re-centre the discussion here!

    No blackout - it stays live and get's slightly jerky - but quite usable - even at 11 fps (would anyone really use that except to find out whether it blacks out
    The technical data sheet from Leica lists 3 different continuous drive modes for the SL: 4 fps (S), 7 fps (M), and 11 fps (F).

    The 7 fps is of interest because we are experimenting with Hensel's FreeMask technology which benefits from a higher frame rate to shoot multiple frames of a strobe lit scene while firing each strobe group separately. This allows extremely detailed masking of a subject from the background and avoids the laborious task of manually outlining a subject (especially hair). We've tried it with my Sony A7R and found 4 fps to slow. Not sure 5 fps with a A7-II would be enough.

    Does anyone know if you can shoot 7 fps in RAW with the SL? What about 11 fps, what is the penalty for that frame rate, if any? 11fps would be really good for this application IF we can set the strobes low enough to keep up.

    Any user comments on the AF face detection? Is the AF assist light effective?

    Thanks,

    - Marc

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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    The technical data sheet from Leica lists 3 different continuous drive modes for the SL: 4 fps (S), 7 fps (M), and 11 fps (F).

    The 7 fps is of interest because we are experimenting with Hensel's FreeMask technology which benefits from a higher frame rate to shoot multiple frames of a strobe lit scene while firing each strobe group separately. This allows extremely detailed masking of a subject from the background and avoids the laborious task of manually outlining a subject (especially hair). We've tried it with my Sony A7R and found 4 fps to slow. Not sure 5 fps with a A7-II would be enough.

    Does anyone know if you can shoot 7 fps in RAW with the SL? What about 11 fps, what is the penalty for that frame rate, if any? 11fps would be really good for this application IF we can set the strobes low enough to keep up.

    Any user comments on the AF face detection? Is the AF assist light effective?

    Thanks,

    - Marc
    Hi Marc
    you can shoot RAW at 11 fps AF face detection seems excellent and the AF light seems to work okay ( the AF is generally excellent with the 24-90 (lens hood off for AF light).
    Anymore specific questions?

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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    Jono, I'm sure you posted before what program you are using for processing the files, but I gotta tell ya, I'm loving that color.
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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnBrew View Post
    Jono, I'm sure you posted before what program you are using for processing the files, but I gotta tell ya, I'm loving that color.
    Hi John
    I'm using Lightroom (to be honest I prefer Aperture, but I've finally given in to the inevitable.

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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Hi John
    I'm using Lightroom (to be honest I prefer Aperture, but I've finally given in to the inevitable.
    It's working for you.
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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnBrew View Post
    Jono, I'm sure you posted before what program you are using for processing the files, but I gotta tell ya, I'm loving that color.
    I concur, John. Jono, it's honestly the colors that you are capturing (and what a place that you have chosen to use the camera) that are striking me, not to mention your lovely compositions and the lovely setting of romantic Venice. I was drawn greatly to the Leica Q due its lovely color reproduction. To me, I am seeing much of the same from the SL's sensor, which seems to be a close cousin. Thanks to the strength of your images, Jono, and from all that I have read from you, Ming, I am increasingly excited to get my hands on this camera. I think it's both it's own camera (if I could afford and a lovely bridge camera for R and M lenses. With colors like this, I am excited to see how M lenses play on it. Jono's already show this off in his review and iamges on his site.

    Jono, I wanted to personally thank you for sharing as much as you have. It's really a kudos to you and to Leica for trusting you with the task to getting the word out (and images out) to get us excited. I am excited....Truly so, maybe moreso than any camera since the original Monochrom...

    Nov 16th (or 21st, whatever the release date actually is here in the U.S.) can't come fast enough. My wallet is barking to be pilfered
    Ashwin Rao
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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    Very much agree Ashwin. I too am seeing the similarities and same lovely color of the Q in Jono's SL images. Of course the intense colors of romatic Venice contributes to this as you pointed out as well as JOno's compositions, but when all is considered, the SL as a photographic tool is very versitile with regards to both M, R and other lenses while at the same time having the advantages of aamera that on least on paper? Has a very versitile palette on therms of applications.

    As it gets into more capable hands of others ( besides Jono, Sean etc.), I'll look forward to hearing more including resulting inages taken.

    On a seperate note, I've notoced an extreme geometric repetitive pattern type distortion in many of those Venice reflection images posted by Jono . Must be the lens...LOL.

    Dave (D&A)
    Last edited by D&A; 8th November 2015 at 12:53.
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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    Quote Originally Posted by ashwinrao1 View Post
    Jono, I wanted to personally thank you for sharing as much as you have. It's really a kudos to you and to Leica for trusting you with the task to getting the word out (and images out) to get us excited. I am excited....Truly so, maybe moreso than any camera since the original Monochrom...
    (blush) Thank you Ashwin I'm very flattered - and nice comments like yours make it all seem more worthwhile.

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