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Thread: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

  1. #151
    Senior Member bradhusick's Avatar
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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    Thank you Admins. "Fun with" threads are supposed to be mostly images taken with a particular camera.

    Thank you Jono for giving us all the great images. As the camera goes on public sale I hope to see a lot more images here.
    Brad Husick

  2. #152
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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    Quote Originally Posted by bradhusick View Post
    Thank you Admins. "Fun with" threads are supposed to be mostly images taken with a particular camera.

    Thank you Jono for giving us all the great images. As the camera goes on public sale I hope to see a lot more images here.
    So do I Brad! and the little hickup at the top will soon be forgotten . . .but it would be nice to see Godfrey back please

    Just this guy you know
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  3. #153
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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    So do I Brad! and the little hickup at the top will soon be forgotten . . .but it would be nice to see Godfrey back please
    I agree!
    With best regards, K-H.
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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    Quote Originally Posted by k-hawinkler View Post
    I agree!
    +1
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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    While I agree that I would like to see Godfrey back here, I must also say that his attitude was a bit strange (to say politely) in the last weeks and months.

    But hey, everyone should be allowed to have some hiccups from time to time - right?

  6. #156
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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    I've been away from the forum for a couple days and am glad I missed the "noise". I really enjoy the Leica forum here and the camaraderie I feel here compared to other sites. IMO, we get too wrapped up in comparing the polished ends of a frog hair split three ways when comparing gear.

    The images Jono have shown here are an example of what an accomplished photographer can do with a camera. No different than many others here. The SL is out of my league but am glad Leica is pushing into new territory and hope to see some of that in the next M. I've only been a Leica owner for a couple years and really enjoy the experience as much as the photos the equipment can make. My over 6 year old tech M-E still exceeds me but I enjoy reading and seeing what other photographers on this forum are doing with the newer gear.

    I'm glad we're all different and hope that we can appreciate those differences and I think they help each of us in our endeavors to enjoy our photography.
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  7. #157
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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    So do I Brad! and the little hickup at the top will soon be forgotten . . .but it would be nice to see Godfrey back please
    Nothing I can do about that even though it looks bad on my end. He chose to leave than he chose to get banned. There is a whole backend thing no one understands.

    Can we please move forward. In the end I'm the bad guy because someone has to get blamed in everyones mind and Im okay with that. Thats my job
    Last edited by Guy Mancuso; 9th November 2015 at 09:11.
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  8. #158
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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    Guy I wonder if one of my dogs or any dog for that matter who's told "bad dog" for doing something that causes others to be displeased, simply thinks "oh thats OK, I'll do it again cause thats my job"...LOL!

    Dave (D&A)

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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    I wonder how many people agree with Guy, but feel that it would be impolite to say so. It's much easier to say so and so is a great person than to say "good riddance." That's a good thing about GetDPI, but I suspect that it causes things to appear skewed. I've often wished someone would just shut up, but I'd never say so.
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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    Because of the ruckus, i checked the prices of the SL (and the Q) here. While the Q is available readily for €4K, the price for the awaited SL is a bit over €7K. Can anyone explain why that is the case?

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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    I'm sorry to say that I don't really agree with Guy, he's not there to be blamed, it's not his job, his job is to be the voice of calm and authority in situations where such a voice is necessary. If he's blamed in this situation it's because his response to unnecessary posts from Godfrey and others was to join in with the hole pointless thing rather than dealing with the situation. I don't believe it helped in any way and just added fuel to the fire.

    I'm not trying to be antagonistic but it's fair to expect moderators to take the higher moral ground and in this case it was a mistake not too. We're all human, things go wrong but Guy is not the martyr in this case because someone needs to be, he was at fault too.

    The idea of arguing on a forum is pretty absurd if you think about it but no less likely to happen, best thing to do is ignore it or learn from the experience and get back to the business of talking about whatever it is you get from the excellent pastime!

    Happy picture taking!

    Mat

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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    I've been away for the past few days, so missed all the excitement. I come to GetDPI and this forum in particular on a regular basis because I respect and value the opinions, perspectives and work of the people on it -- Jono's reporting on his experiences with the SL is just the most recent (perfect!) example of what I mean. I too miss Godfrey and his contribution, but I also have a great deal of sympathy for Guy in doing a job that we can make almost impossible.

    Hopefully we're all grown-ups -- let's try and remember that and act like it . Looking forward to many, many more informative, entertaining and useful posts!

  13. #163
    Senior Member Mike Woods's Avatar
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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    Someone please share some bloody images

    Umm, I guess that's you, Jono.......

    Mike

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    Btw these images are too good. We really need a hack shooter to debate this camera. Lol . That's what we usually get to go by, these are too good.

    Jono you exceeded the usual junk images from OEMs. ROTFLMAO


    I love the reflection shots
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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Because of the ruckus, i checked the prices of the SL (and the Q) here. While the Q is available readily for €4K, the price for the awaited SL is a bit over €7K. Can anyone explain why that is the case?
    I assume higher built cost, for example for the more solid body and more refined sealing, larger and higher resolution viewfinder, top display, faster processor, gps, ... and I assume it just costs money to develop a new system from ground up.
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  16. #166
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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    Under the circumstances I sence this may be rather , but ...
    Bart ...

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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    Quote Originally Posted by Knorp View Post
    Under the circumstances I sence this may be rather , but ...
    If one could buy a camera and was allowed to post images from the SL...
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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    Quote Originally Posted by Paratom View Post
    I assume higher built cost, for example for the more solid body and more refined sealing, larger and higher resolution viewfinder, top display, faster processor, gps, ... and I assume it just costs money to develop a new system from ground up.
    Thanks, Tom.

    It is the Summilux that comes with the Q that got me confused.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Paratom View Post
    If one could buy a camera and was allowed to post images from the SL...
    +1

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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Thanks, Tom.

    It is the Summilux that comes with the Q that got me confused.

    - - - Updated - - -



    +1
    Yes, and the one and only Summilux with f1.7 that I know.

    I think we all know that Leica does not offer the most cost effective products.
    In case of the Q I see it competes with the Rx1 so it has to be priced not too far.
    The SL seems to be supposed to compete with pro level DSLR, so I think the price is not so far off.
    The T looks like a bargain.

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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    I saw a short review of another summilux 15/1.7 (m43) the other day.

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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    Quote Originally Posted by Paratom View Post
    Yes, and the one and only Summilux with f1.7 that I know.

    I think we all know that Leica does not offer the most cost effective products.
    In case of the Q I see it competes with the Rx1 so it has to be priced not too far.
    The SL seems to be supposed to compete with pro level DSLR, so I think the price is not so far off.
    The T looks like a bargain.
    I can't see how the SL can compete with pro-level DSLR's, unless you're happy to shoot mostly stationary subjects. DSLR's are in a league of their own with respect to shooting sports. I haven't seen a single image from the SL to suggest otherwise.

    The SL is a mirrorless camera and the competition is the A7RII. Like the Q vs RX1R, Leica should be pricing the SL kit to be price competitive with the A7RII. In Australia, the SL+24-90 sells for $18k vs $5.5k for the A7RII+24-70!
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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    I wanted to post an image, given that the thread has slid off course a bit. Yet, I do not have an SL yet, though will have my first taste tomorrow at my local Leica dealer....

    All of that said, the Leica Q likely has a similar sensor, so I figured to post a photo from the Q, in lieu of my pending SL purchase....

    Speaking of sliding back on course, here's one taken by slip and slide...the SL should hopefully good at capturing fast moving people such as my daughter...

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    Senior Member doug's Avatar
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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    Quote Originally Posted by lambert View Post
    I can't see how the SL can compete with pro-level DSLR's, unless you're happy to shoot mostly stationary subjects. DSLR's are in a league of their own with respect to shooting sports. I haven't seen a single image from the SL to suggest otherwise.
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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    Quote Originally Posted by ashwinrao1 View Post
    I wanted to post an image, given that the thread has slid off course a bit. Yet, I do not have an SL yet, though will have my first taste tomorrow at my local Leica dealer....

    All of that said, the Leica Q likely has a similar sensor, so I figured to post a photo from the Q, in lieu of my pending SL purchase....

    Speaking of sliding back on course, here's one taken by slip and slide...the SL should hopefully good at capturing fast moving people such as my daughter...
    Lovely Shot. The SL will likely also do well in these scenarios. But I was responding to the point that the SL will compete with pro-level DSLR's. I have yet to see a mirrorless, particularly one with the SL's limitations (i.e. contrast detect AF with no AF or AE at 11fps) compete with a pro-grade DSLR for sports photography.

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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    Quote Originally Posted by lambert View Post
    I can't see how the SL can compete with pro-level DSLR's, unless you're happy to shoot mostly stationary subjects. DSLR's are in a league of their own with respect to shooting sports. I haven't seen a single image from the SL to suggest otherwise.

    The SL is a mirrorless camera and the competition is the A7RII. Like the Q vs RX1R, Leica should be pricing the SL kit to be price competitive with the A7RII. In Australia, the SL+24-90 sells for $18k vs $5.5k for the A7RII+24-70!
    Why should Leica price the SL competitive to the A7R II if they can sell it for twice the price? To start with, I assume it's a better camera for some people (probably myself included), secondly, many are willing to pay extra for what the Leica brand is or is presumed to be. While I agree that a pro-level DSLR would mostly be better for most sports, the SL might be useful for some sports as well, depending of how the viewfinder works.

    The comparison with the Q is irrelevant. It's a different market, and it's easier to make a camera with an integrated lens. Point and shoot cameras where always more expensive than SLRs. Another side to this is that the sales price of a product rarely reflect the production cost these days, but the price that the manufacturer expects the market to be able and willing to pay.

    When reading all the negative comments about the price of the SL, I wonder why I don't see similar complaints about BMW prices vs. Toyota. For most people, a Toyota is a better, more practical car. Still, BMW has no problem selling their cars at twice the price, and the owners seem to be happy and come back to be "taken for a ride" again and again and again.
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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    Exactly! If I had the choice between a great viewfinder that updates instantly and great AF-C when shooting sports, I'd go for the viewfinder almost every time. I can shoot sports without AF, and if AF-S is fast enough, which it is on some mirrorless cameras, I don't always bother with AF-C at all. However, if I can't see what I'm doing, I will miss part of the action. Viewfinder blackouts and electronic viewfinders that change to "review mode" during bursts are the biggest hindrance for using mirrorless cameras for sports, not lacking AF. If Leica has fixed this, this camera becomes even more interesting. I know Sony hasn't:

    http://www.dpreview.com/articles/568...he-sony-a7r-ii
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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    Quote Originally Posted by lambert View Post
    I can't see how the SL can compete with pro-level DSLR's, unless you're happy to shoot mostly stationary subjects. DSLR's are in a league of their own with respect to shooting sports. I haven't seen a single image from the SL to suggest otherwise.
    Well, if one bought those two zooms, especially the long one, I don't see why it could not shoot sports with enough light.

    Where Canikon is really ahead are all those great long lenses, like the 500/4s etc. Also the nice 300/2.8s

    It's really a matter of shooting to your setups strengths, and as Doug's link shows, the SL, properly deployed would be fine in many sports situations.

    Most pros shooting sports have two bodies anyway. Would be very nice to have a camera with such incredible prime options at sporting event as one of those bodies.

    Also nice would be a A7sII with a great native high quality long lens, because you can access such huge DOF.
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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    Quote Originally Posted by lambert View Post
    I can't see how the SL can compete with pro-level DSLR's, unless you're happy to shoot mostly stationary subjects. DSLR's are in a league of their own with respect to shooting sports.
    I'm not sure that sports shooters are a big part of the professional DSLR market. They get lots of headlines, but the Olympic 100 meter final only comes around every 4 years.

    None of the working photographers I know that run "pro" DSLRs use them for sports or for AF tracking at 10+ FPS. They run those cameras because they are tough as nails, responsive, have great battery life, and keep their interface consistent over the years. Those qualities are probably descriptive of the SL, but not of any Sony camera other than their broadcast stuff.

    So you are right. You won't see many SLs covering Rio 2016, or even Tokyo 2020. But that hardly means it isn't a "pro-level" camera.
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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    I'm not a big fan that you need a DSLR to shoot sports. Hell I did it with MF cameras. Slowest dog around but it's more on the shooter than on the gear. Timing is everything. I would have no issue doing it with this SL or my A7rII as long as you have a lens you need in that distance range given sideline limitations and such. Sure canon/Nikon maybe easier because they do have long glass and such. But that would not stop me at least.
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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    Hello.

    My access was re-enabled yesterday. I've read all of the thread since the silliness.

    Jono: excellent SL photographs! And Ashwin, I enjoyed your photos too. Thank you both.

    I see the inevitable digression to more "this vs that" and somewhat outlandish speculation continues. Like Guy and a couple other folks, I have not needed an umpteen FPS, AF SLR camera to shoot sports ... In the 1980s, I covered the first US Motorcycle GP at Laguna Seca (a paid professional gig) with a Mamiya 1000S 645 camera and sold many photos from that shoot. In the late 1990s, I photographed the Manx Gran Prix on the Isle of Man using a Leica M6TTL and a 135mm lens (possible mainly because you have incredible track access on the open road events) and again sold a large number of photos from that shoot. A couple of years later, I did the same at the Isle of Man again with a Sony DSC-F707 digital camera ... far more challenging than either of the film cameras due to the very poor responsiveness of digital cameras of that time ... and successfully managed a nice portfolio of shots even with it that sold well also.

    It's my belief that becoming over-dependent upon cameras which do everything for you stifles creativity as a photographer. As anyone on this forum who knows me can say, I love learning and using new technology and seeing how it presents advantages to my photography. But I also never center my dependence and use of equipment based simply on what it does for me automatically ... I want control and responsiveness, good imaging quality for my range of use, and clean ergonomics first. I'll use automation and conveniences when they add to my capabilities and ability to get the photographs I want, and ignore them when they don't. It's that simple.

    I don't have a Leica SL to show pictures from yet. Mine should arrive sometime next week. I am having fun with the SL so far, however, as I'm studying the manual and learning all about how it works, and what its deficiencies in control and configuration capability are. Handling it last Friday, I learned a tremendous amount in a very short time about its physical layout and feel (nearly all positive), and I also learned a few items of its current firmware implementation that I feel can be improved upon. I have those all written down and will send some feature enhancement requests to Leica as soon as I have my own camera to double-check that I have not mis-understood something first.

    I don't see much point to speculating about the SL, or comparing it to other cameras, until I have it in my hands. Comparisons and questions, speculations about the camera/the business/ad nauseam, to my way of thinking, belong in other threads titled for that purposes and discussions.

    So I haven't much more to say about the SL until mine arrives. There is a lot of active and interesting discussion about the SL camera elsewhere that I'm participating in. Since I can't show photos yet, I won't contribute further to this thread here until such time as I can (except maybe to give an 'attaboy' or ask a question about a posted photo).

    See you then.

    G
    Last edited by Godfrey; 10th November 2015 at 12:43.
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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    In the 1980s, I covered the first US Motorcycle GP at Laguna Seca (a paid professional gig) with a Mamiya 1000S 645 camera and sold many photos from that shoot.
    1988. I remember seeing you there, LOL. GP returned to the US after a 23 year absence, and I wasn't going to miss it. I don't remember you specifically, but I do remember seeing you and your Mamiya among a sea of motor-driven Nikons and Canons.

    Back to the SL, it seems like the perfect camera to shoot in the paddock where I normally reside when at MotoGP events.
    La gallina vecchia fa buon brodo
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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    Quote Originally Posted by DucatiTerminator View Post
    1988. I remember seeing you there, LOL. GP returned to the US after a 23 year absence, and I wasn't going to miss it. I don't remember you specifically, but I do remember seeing you and your Mamiya among a sea of motor-driven Nikons and Canons.

    Back to the SL, it seems like the perfect camera to shoot in the paddock where I normally reside when at MotoGP events.
    Yes, that's the right time. The lovely young lady I was traveling with, a co-worker at JPL, caught (I think it was) Eddie Lawson's helmet when he tossed it to the crowd at the Corkscrew on his victory lap. (Okay, I might be mixing up the GP and the Superbike races ... They say memory is the second thing to go, and I don't want to speculate on the first!)

    I'd use the SL out on the course as well as in the paddock, based on what I saw from testing it at the store. When that 90-280 zoom ships, it will prove a wonderful long-reach lens for some of the long-shots, with OIS for hand-held mobility, never mind my existing R long lenses (which I'd more likely use on tripod or monopod). Hopefully, by the time of the next races in Spring, I'll be mobile enough again that I can go shooting these events once more. :-)

    onwards,
    G
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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    I'm not a big fan that you need a DSLR to shoot sports. Hell I did it with MF cameras. Slowest dog around but it's more on the shooter than on the gear. Timing is everything. I would have no issue doing it with this SL or my A7rII as long as you have a lens you need in that distance range given sideline limitations and such. Sure canon/Nikon maybe easier because they do have long glass and such. But that would not stop me at least.
    I agree, I don't hesitate to shoot action with manual focus and find it fun......in moderation. However, if I was shooting sports every night and expected to have the images ready to go with all relevant info, players names, etc shortly after the game, as do the real sports pros today, my main body would probably be Canikon.

    Modern sports pros are productive on a time scale and connectivity unimaginable in the film era. The pro is shooter, darkroom, and editor. Anyone unfamiliar with Photomechanic really has no clue of the demands placed on professional sports photographers today. Mastery of that program is more important than shooting skills which many people have. I see high school kids making fantastic images today, with great variety and creativity. But the brutal discipline of modern press photography is another matter.

    It was never easy, but it's harder than ever because of the raw pace and expectations.

    As to those who claim this is not s significant part of the DSLR market, look at the glass you see every few minutes in daily sporting coverage. In one given day thousands of events are covered worldwide with Canikon lenses. People love sports and they want to see coverage right down to the local high school.

    I do think there is huge potential for a new smaller, lighter FF digital platform, but only Canikon has the infrastructure and manufacturing experience to create a complete new system, which like Sony with it's LAEA4, can still use the very expensive older lenses too.

    Look back at all the Leica accessories available in the 1950s and 60s. It's incredible. It was a real system. That's what EVIL needs to to take serious professional hold, beyond "second body" status.

    Sony shows EVIL can make some serious money. Leica shows EVIL can be very polished. Perhaps these new truths will wake the giants. Huge risks, yes, but huge sales opportunities
    Last edited by uhoh7; 10th November 2015 at 10:54.
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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    Yes, that's the right time. The lovely young lady I was traveling with, a co-worker at JPL, caught (I think it was) Eddie Lawson's helmet when he tossed it to the crowd at the Corkscrew on his victory lap. (Okay, I might be mixing up the GP and the Superbike races ... They say memory is the second thing to go, and I don't want to speculate on the first!)

    I'd use the SL out on the course as well as in the paddock, based on what I saw from testing it at the store. When that 90-280 zoom ships, it will prove a wonderful long-reach lens for some of the long-shots, with OIS for hand-held mobility, never mind my existing R long lenses (which I'd more likely use on tripod or monopod). Hopefully, by the time of the next races in Spring, I'll be mobile enough again that I can go shooting these events once more. :-)

    onwards,
    G
    That was her??!! Don't worry, your memory is fine. Eddie did toss his helmet into the crowd at the Corkscrew after his GP victory. I watched the race from up there that year with my girlfriend at the time and was thinking how lucky your friend was

    I don't venture out into the track areas as much as I used to during the race, but I have no doubt that the SL w/90-280 will hold it's own from most of the corners. A couple of my friends are MotoGP photographers for Dorna and the factory teams, and I don't envy the amount of gear they have to cart around. I shoot for fun and the occasional favor for a friend who is a team owner, so I don't need to carry much. A SL and a couple of lenses would likely be perfect for this.

    Unfortunately, Laguna Seca is no longer on the MotoGP calendar, but I hope you can make it out to COTA in the Spring. Rainey, Schwantz, and Mamola are usually there. Good track to put your SL through the paces.
    La gallina vecchia fa buon brodo
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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    As a former professional sports shooter myself, I have to say that no matter what other equipment I have tried, nothing gives me consistently great results as much as a full size Canon or Nikon body and lens. Believe me I have tried all the mirrorless cameras and some get close, but none has been good enough to replace my current choice Nikon D4. The autofocus system of the D4 is just about perfect. My Canons were nearly as good.

    I am interested in the Leica SL for reasons other than sports, and I'll bet Leica wasn't banking on replacing all the full size Canons and Nikons in the world of sports.
    Brad Husick
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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    Having had similar experience in photographing in the professional sports arena, I couldn't agree more with Brad's written assessment.

    Dave (D&A)
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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    Quote Originally Posted by DucatiTerminator View Post
    That was her??!! Don't worry, your memory is fine. Eddie did toss his helmet into the crowd at the Corkscrew after his GP victory. I watched the race from up there that year with my girlfriend at the time and was thinking how lucky your friend was

    I don't venture out into the track areas as much as I used to during the race, but I have no doubt that the SL w/90-280 will hold it's own from most of the corners. A couple of my friends are MotoGP photographers for Dorna and the factory teams, and I don't envy the amount of gear they have to cart around. I shoot for fun and the occasional favor for a friend who is a team owner, so I don't need to carry much. A SL and a couple of lenses would likely be perfect for this.

    Unfortunately, Laguna Seca is no longer on the MotoGP calendar, but I hope you can make it out to COTA in the Spring. Rainey, Schwantz, and Mamola are usually there. Good track to put your SL through the paces.
    Ah good, the neurons are still firing right. Thanks! ;-)

    Yes, Alix was quite jazzed about the helmet. She was always a lot of fun to travel and ride with, had one of the Yamaha Visions that she rode all over the place. I had a Ducati 750GT and a BMW R75/5 at the time. Wonderful days... Too bad she had a boyfriend, but he was often away and I enjoyed her company. I just recently re-connected with her as she's bought a house that's just a half hour away. It will be fun to visit and talk about old times!

    COTA ... Circuit of the Americas? Texas? Where is that specifically? I've never been out to a Texas track, it might be worth a trip. One of my local buddies will likely want to go too if I mention it to him. My uncle and a cousin are in Houston, and I have another old friend who now lives in Dallas. I'd like to see San Antonio and Austin again, it's been years. So it could be a grand trip.

    I have to agree with Brad and Dave ... at this point in time, the big Canon and Nikon DSLRs and the lens portfolios they offer are definitely the choice cameras for the job. That doesn't mean the SL can't do well, but I'm sure Leica has no illusions of nipping away all of the Canon and Nikon pro shooters with the SL. It will take some years of developing a large enough lens portfolio as well as getting enough shooters to be familiar enough with it to work their way into that niche in even a small way, and it has never really been their purview anyway.

    It will be most interesting when Nikon and Canon finally do offer a pro-grade electronic TTL body, though, to see how their designs differ from the SL and focus their products on their audience' needs/desires.

    This kind of shooting is not my focus either. My photography has moved far from the sports and event work I once did. It's a game I'm getting too old for, I think. I look forward to using the SL as my primary camera system, complemented by the M, for my explorations of people, still life, and urban context stories.

    I have good feelings about my conceptions of the Leica SL with native and R lenses based on trying the demo on Friday. I'll get to really know it all works together next week when the cameras start to be delivered. :-)

    G

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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    Ah good, the neurons are still firing right. Thanks! ;-)

    Yes, Alix was quite jazzed about the helmet. She was always a lot of fun to travel and ride with, had one of the Yamaha Visions that she rode all over the place. I had a Ducati 750GT and a BMW R75/5 at the time. Wonderful days... Too bad she had a boyfriend, but he was often away and I enjoyed her company. I just recently re-connected with her as she's bought a house that's just a half hour away. It will be fun to visit and talk about old times!

    COTA ... Circuit of the Americas? Texas? Where is that specifically? I've never been out to a Texas track, it might be worth a trip. One of my local buddies will likely want to go too if I mention it to him. My uncle and a cousin are in Houston, and I have another old friend who now lives in Dallas. I'd like to see San Antonio and Austin again, it's been years. So it could be a grand trip.

    I have to agree with Brad and Dave ... at this point in time, the big Canon and Nikon DSLRs and the lens portfolios they offer are definitely the choice cameras for the job. That doesn't mean the SL can't do well, but I'm sure Leica has no illusions of nipping away all of the Canon and Nikon pro shooters with the SL. It will take some years of developing a large enough lens portfolio as well as getting enough shooters to be familiar enough with it to work their way into that niche in even a small way, and it has never really been their purview anyway.

    It will be most interesting when Nikon and Canon finally do offer a pro-grade electronic TTL body, though, to see how their designs differ from the SL and focus their products on their audience' needs/desires.

    This kind of shooting is not my focus either. My photography has moved far from the sports and event work I once did. It's a game I'm getting too old for, I think. I look forward to using the SL as my primary camera system, complemented by the M, for my explorations of people, still life, and urban context stories.

    I have good feelings about my conceptions of the Leica SL with native and R lenses based on trying the demo on Friday. I'll get to really know it all works together next week when the cameras start to be delivered. :-)

    G
    I worked in a Yamaha/Honda/BMW dealership so I rode more Visons than I could count, lol. Not my style of bike, but they were fun nonetheless, I had a Yamaha FZR1000 and a Honda VFR700FII then so I was a Lawson/Mamola/Gardner fan but also followed Christian Sarron. Our histories seem to have a few similarities -- I had a lovely Dutch friend around that time (who also had a boyfriend who was often away) with whom I would ride, but unfortunately, I have no idea where she is now.

    Yes, Circuit of the Americas. It is just Southeast of downtown Austin. It is a world class international track specifically designed for F1 with outstanding amenities, though IMO it lacks a certain charm and character that Laguna Seca has. I highly recommend you take a trip during MotoGP or F1 (Autumn). You won't regret it.

    I agree with Brad and Dave as well (and to that which you added). But I have no aspirations whatsoever to shoot pro level sports, especially motorcycle racing. One of my friends shoots Canon, and I believe he carries the 600, 800, and 200-400. It's quite the sight to see him on his little 50cc scooter balancing everything as he scoots quickly to get to his favorite locations. And he travels the world with all of this gear to every event on the MotoGP calendar. The other friend shoots Nikon and used to cart a 600 and 800 but ditched his 800 now that he has to shoot video for certain team clients. I've lugged his D4s/600 for him when he's had a pretty big video rig to balance on his scooter while I was on foot (at Sears Point where there are a lot of elevation changes). I'm in decent shape and could run around a stadium all day pretty competently, but a race track is a whole different scale. No thanks, not for me, even with a scooter, lol.

    I'm excited for Canon and Nikon's future offerings as well, however, until EVF lag issues are resolved (can't wait to see how the SL performs in this respect), I can't see them replacing 1Dx/D4s, perhaps as a supplement. I'm pretty brand agnostic (though I admit I love my Ducati's, LOL), at least when it comes to cameras. I was shooting with a Nikon F3 and a very limited selection of glass when you were shooting your Mamiya at Laguna. I switched to Canon in the early autofocus days due to the USM lenses, and now I find myself with a renewed interested in Leica (which always fascinated me though I wasn't able to afford it) as my focus changes towards other subjects. Not sure how the SL will work for me yet, but I'm keeping an open mind.
    La gallina vecchia fa buon brodo

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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    LOL ... More commonalities than you think. A decade or so earlier (1976-1978), I was Parts Manager at a Honda dealership. In my motorcycle riding career (1975 to 2005), I had a couple of Hondas and a BMW, but mostly Ducatis and Moto Guzzis. My all time favorite bikes were a specially hand-fettled '75 Moto Guzzi 850T, a '92 Ducati 907ie, and my beloved '89 Moto Guzzi LeMans 1000 mark V. Ach, those were good days! All gone now, I stopped riding a decade ago and mostly look forward to being able to ride my bicycle again, now that my hip has been repaired. Life goes forwards, only and ever.

    There's a fundamental difference in how an SLR viewfinder works to the eye compared to the EVF. AF with tracking is a feature I've almost never used, on any camera, but the dynamics of an SLR's finder is what makes them beautifully suited to quick bursts of sequence captures regardless of focusing methodology. I honestly don't think any electronic TTL finder will ever change that ... the difference is that an SLR finder shows you an instantaneous glimpse of the subject just slightly ahead of each capture, where no matter how fast or responsive it might be, the best that any EVF can possibly do is show you that same instantaneous glimpse of the subject just slightly after each capture. This is why I believe that there is always a place for an SLR camera, just like there's always a place for a coupled rangefinder camera, even if ultimately both are relegated to being niche technologies and electronic imaging systems become the mainstay for the vast majority of cameras and camera uses due to their constantly reducing costs and ever expanding versatilities.

    As I've often said, "Equipment is transitory. Photographs endure."

    There are many practical advantages to the EVF over either RF or SLR designs in manufacture and in average use, and a few special advantages in some areas of endeavor that neither of the other two can ever do, but that doesn't mean we should consider it "all or nothing!" and "only one type of camera must be!", in any way. There is space enough*in the realm of Photography for all types of cameras. The real question for each photographer is, "what do you need? what works best for the photographs you want to make?" From my experience over the past decade, I think the SL will fit the bill for me, with the M alongside. I guess I'll find out soon enough.

    Lugging around multiple big lenses was never my thing, even when I was much younger and far more fit to the task. The SL plus 24-90 fits nicely into my Billingham L2 bag, with a few accessories, and provides a kit that is lighter, faster, and more versatile than my old favorite "body and three lenses" in the same bag, particularly considering its excellent ergonomics and "easy to hold all day" lack of clutter on the body. Even in the scant two hours of playing with it at the shop on Friday, I found it starting to disappear from my consciousness and letting me see my subject matter without distraction. That's a valuable thing, and the most precious quality I prize in a camera. The Ms have it, some other cameras do too, but it is rare and to be applauded when I find it. It seems to be right there in the SL. :-)

    G
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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

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    Redgrave Fen AM (with the 24-90)

    Just this guy you know
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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Redgrave Fen AM (with the 24-90)
    Nicely done, Jono!

    G

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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    Seriously, if the SL came with a Jono Mode, I'd order one tomorrow.
    La gallina vecchia fa buon brodo

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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    LOL ... More commonalities than you think. A decade or so earlier (1976-1978), I was Parts Manager at a Honda dealership. In my motorcycle riding career (1975 to 2005), I had a couple of Hondas and a BMW, but mostly Ducatis and Moto Guzzis. My all time favorite bikes were a specially hand-fettled '75 Moto Guzzi 850T, a '92 Ducati 907ie, and my beloved '89 Moto Guzzi LeMans 1000 mark V. Ach, those were good days! All gone now, I stopped riding a decade ago and mostly look forward to being able to ride my bicycle again, now that my hip has been repaired. Life goes forwards, only and ever.

    There's a fundamental difference in how an SLR viewfinder works to the eye compared to the EVF. AF with tracking is a feature I've almost never used, on any camera, but the dynamics of an SLR's finder is what makes them beautifully suited to quick bursts of sequence captures regardless of focusing methodology. I honestly don't think any electronic TTL finder will ever change that ... the difference is that an SLR finder shows you an instantaneous glimpse of the subject just slightly ahead of each capture, where no matter how fast or responsive it might be, the best that any EVF can possibly do is show you that same instantaneous glimpse of the subject just slightly after each capture. This is why I believe that there is always a place for an SLR camera, just like there's always a place for a coupled rangefinder camera, even if ultimately both are relegated to being niche technologies and electronic imaging systems become the mainstay for the vast majority of cameras and camera uses due to their constantly reducing costs and ever expanding versatilities.

    As I've often said, "Equipment is transitory. Photographs endure."

    There are many practical advantages to the EVF over either RF or SLR designs in manufacture and in average use, and a few special advantages in some areas of endeavor that neither of the other two can ever do, but that doesn't mean we should consider it "all or nothing!" and "only one type of camera must be!", in any way. There is space enough*in the realm of Photography for all types of cameras. The real question for each photographer is, "what do you need? what works best for the photographs you want to make?" From my experience over the past decade, I think the SL will fit the bill for me, with the M alongside. I guess I'll find out soon enough.

    Lugging around multiple big lenses was never my thing, even when I was much younger and far more fit to the task. The SL plus 24-90 fits nicely into my Billingham L2 bag, with a few accessories, and provides a kit that is lighter, faster, and more versatile than my old favorite "body and three lenses" in the same bag, particularly considering its excellent ergonomics and "easy to hold all day" lack of clutter on the body. Even in the scant two hours of playing with it at the shop on Friday, I found it starting to disappear from my consciousness and letting me see my subject matter without distraction. That's a valuable thing, and the most precious quality I prize in a camera. The Ms have it, some other cameras do too, but it is rare and to be applauded when I find it. It seems to be right there in the SL. :-)

    G
    I wanted a Paso badly, but it was very much out of my reach at the time. I liked Guzzi's but never considered getting one. Really was a Bimota fan though they were also out of my financial reach. Bicycles are fun for sure, but I'll twist a throttle any day before peddling if I have a choice. Yet as I get older, I definitely subscribe to the adage: "The older I get, the faster I was" LOL.

    I'm currently using both SLR and EVF. I'm still getting used to the EVF and even went the X-Pro1 route with OVF/EVF to ease the transition. If I had to choose between the two, I still lean towards optical for the reasons you mention. I have a XT-1, and overall, I'm pleased with the EVF, however, I suspect that the SL EVF will set a much higher bar. I look forward to seeing and playing with one in person, though I suspect I would wait until the system matures regardless of how much I like it. Unless of course Leica can figure out away to incorporate the aforementioned Jono Mode I'm requesting, LOL.


    As I've often said, "Equipment is transitory. Photographs endure."

    ^^^ I like that! Now I need to work on my craft so that more of my photographs warrant enduring.

    I've never complained much when the gear load got heavier except for long trips on the bike (I've never been much for saddlebags). But maybe that's how I can justify the SL sooner rather than later!

    Alvin
    La gallina vecchia fa buon brodo

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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    I got a chance to hold the SL tonight, but the battery was dead so I didn't get to use it. Here are some initial impressions:

    - very solid - like Nikon D4 solid, like it was carved out of a block of metal
    - a bit larger than I had envisioned from pictures
    - I have broad palms, so even though the camera was large, it didn't come down far enough to make it comfortable to hold and the bottom edge is sharp so I would need to add the vertical grip that makes the package even bigger
    - the 24-90 lens is HUGE - like Nikon 70-200 f/2.8 huge if you have the Leica hood on it, at least that's the way it felt to me. This makes the SL with the zoom really big. This is not a camera/lens for street portraits, it would scare people the same way a big DSLR does.
    - I mounted a 50 APO M to the SL with the adapter - this makes the APO seem toy-like in size, but the weight balance is nice
    - I put it next to my Sony A7R2 and the SL (without the vertical grip) is bigger than the A7R2 with the vertical grip mounted
    - I am not sure what camera bag I own that would fit the SL - it would never fit where an M240 would fit even with just an M lens on it
    - I can't comment on the operation or the viewfinder - that will have to wait for another day, but it's going to be hard to replace my A7R2 since that has 42 megapixels and in-body image stabilization and the SL is 24 and has no stabilization
    - The 13"x19"sample prints from the SL look nice, but very similar to the M240 prints, not that this is a bad thing
    - Aside from autofocus lenses, I am even more puzzled now what the whole point of the SL is. Perhaps the SL2 or SL3 will have 50 mpx and stabilization and more lenses by that time (especially primes).

    Well that's it until I can get my hands on one with a charged battery.
    Brad Husick
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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    Nice summary, Brad. I got to test the very same camera, but I was lucky that the battery was operational.

    My very first impressions
    1. Build is solid, incredibly solid. The Best I have held in many ways. Feels like a tank could run over it, and it would still work
    2. EVF: Truly incredible. Close to viewing through a window finder, and about as good as it could get...most impressive, and the most notable "wow" feature of the camera"
    2. The camera is bigger than I thought, but felt nice in my hands. That being said, when mounted with the Noctilux f/0.95, the camera/lens combo created some hand fatigue rather rapidly...
    3. Like Brad, i mounted the 50 APO, which is a marvelous performed on the camera, but it looks funny, too small, yet the camera was much more easy to handle
    4. I tested the 80-200 Vario-Elmar f/4 R lens on this camera. Several R users in the audience commented that the look and feel with this camera was R like. The lens was easy to focus and pleasant to use, but the whole thing was bulky (not a street shooter)
    5. The 24-90 is very fast, and both AF-C and AF-S tracking was impressive. This camera will perform with that lens, but it does, as Brad said, make the camera an SLR sized rig...does not feel at all like the A7 series in its size, and Brad's A7RII and 24-70 lens looked small and cheap in comparison
    6. Build is top notch...Maybe the best I have ever seen. Impressive, solid.
    7. The user interface may drive some people crazy...the unmarked buttons and scrolling are not particularly intutive, so I'd want to set the camera's buttons to my needed pre-sets and be done with it
    8. I am not sure i am huge fan of the focus peaking imprelemntation, as I was instructed to use it...Using one of the pre-set 4 buttons to magnify did not seem to be an elegant solution for M lenses, but with a VF that good, I am not sure that focus mag is really needed most of the time
    9. Colors were Q like in some ways, M240 like in others....I need to get a better asssesment, as this was indoors in fluorescent light. Challenging for a camera to handle.

    I am more conflicted than ever about the camera. While I appreciate the 24-90 zoom's performance, it is huge and makes the camera, to me, feel very bulky. I am used to the "M" style of shooting, and this lens makes the camera feel like an SLR. When using M lenses, the experience becomes more enjoyable, but there's no AF to take advantage of. I see future primes as a great step forward for this camera, as long as lens size can be managed. What I really want is an update of the M240, but this camera does many things right and is worthy of the Leica name. It just seems to tackle a different, "pro" audience, but I am not sure how well it will tackle it with 1 lens available....

    Ultimately, more time is needed....until then, a few shots to share:, mainly with the Noct f/0.95, APO 50, or 80-200 f/4









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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    Quote Originally Posted by ashwinrao1 View Post
    I am more conflicted than ever about the camera. While I appreciate the 24-90 zoom's performance, it is huge and makes the camera, to me, feel very bulky. I am used to the "M" style of shooting, and this lens makes the camera feel like an SLR. When using M lenses, the experience becomes more enjoyable, but there's no AF to take advantage of. I see future primes as a great step forward for this camera, as long as lens size can be managed. What I really want is an update of the M240, but this camera does many things right and is worthy of the Leica name. It just seems to tackle a different, "pro" audience, but I am not sure how well it will tackle it with 1 lens available....
    Ashwin,

    thanks for your thoughts and first impressions!

    What I do not understand is, that you (and many others) compare the SL with an M camera. The SL was never designed to be that, but as a pro level SLR which end of the day should be competing with D1X's, D4s's etc. I think Leica did a great job WRT what the camera design was aiming for. I do not find it too bulky, also not the lenses, simply add a 2.8/70-200 to a Nikon D810 (one of my preferred combos) and you have more bulk and weight.

    What I am really missing is an equivalent SL lens like a Nikkor 80-400 or 200-500, which I would need for wildlife. Would such a lens be available from Leica I would buy this combo within a heartbeat, no doubt. Unfortunately I think I will have to wait very long for something like that to happen.

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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    What I do not understand is, that you (and many others) compare the SL with an M camera. The SL was never designed to be that, but as a pro level SLR which end of the day should be competing with D1X's, D4s's etc. I think Leica did a great job WRT what the camera design was aiming for. I do not find it too bulky, also not the lenses, simply add a 2.8/70-200 to a Nikon D810 (one of my preferred combos) and you have more bulk and weight.
    Pro's must earn seriously big bucks in your nick of the woods. Downunder, you'll be hard pressed to find a pro that can drop $18k on a 24mp kit (SL+24-90) when something like a D810+24-70/2.8 or an A7RII+24-70/4 sell for $5.5k.
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  48. #198
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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    Kudos to Brad and Ashwin for their initial detailed thoughts with regards to the handling and some of the operatiomal features of the SL. The body as such, with the ability to accept S, R and M lenses, has to in many way be a compromise in both size and capabilites with each of these series of lenses.
    Therefore various degrees of success in terms of handling and capabilities,, especially for this 1st generation of camera and its feature set as presented at this initial phase, is to be expected.

    Agree with others that this was designed first and formost as a pro level mirrorless DSLR type AF camera that has a wide range of applications and as such shouldn't be expected to be an elegant solution as a primary M lens photographic tool .

    Depending on whether one primarily uses the SL as a their main camera for either M,R,T (or other adapted lenses) or SL af lenses or use as a backup or secondary body for its feature set that has alternative advantages as compared to other bodies (Leica or otherwise) for these lenses, will ultimately reveal whether the SL is the right camera for each respective potential user. I believe there will a wide range of opinions in this regard for the SL.

    Dave (D&A)
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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    Quote Originally Posted by ashwinrao1 View Post
    Nice summary, Brad. I got to test the very same camera, but I was lucky that the battery was operational.

    My very first impressions
    1. Build is solid, incredibly solid. The Best I have held in many ways. Feels like a tank could run over it, and it would still work
    2. EVF: Truly incredible. Close to viewing through a window finder, and about as good as it could get...most impressive, and the most notable "wow" feature of the camera"
    2. The camera is bigger than I thought, but felt nice in my hands. That being said, when mounted with the Noctilux f/0.95, the camera/lens combo created some hand fatigue rather rapidly...
    3. Like Brad, i mounted the 50 APO, which is a marvelous performed on the camera, but it looks funny, too small, yet the camera was much more easy to handle
    4. I tested the 80-200 Vario-Elmar f/4 R lens on this camera. Several R users in the audience commented that the look and feel with this camera was R like. The lens was easy to focus and pleasant to use, but the whole thing was bulky (not a street shooter)
    5. The 24-90 is very fast, and both AF-C and AF-S tracking was impressive. This camera will perform with that lens, but it does, as Brad said, make the camera an SLR sized rig...does not feel at all like the A7 series in its size, and Brad's A7RII and 24-70 lens looked small and cheap in comparison
    6. Build is top notch...Maybe the best I have ever seen. Impressive, solid.
    7. The user interface may drive some people crazy...the unmarked buttons and scrolling are not particularly intutive, so I'd want to set the camera's buttons to my needed pre-sets and be done with it
    8. I am not sure i am huge fan of the focus peaking imprelemntation, as I was instructed to use it...Using one of the pre-set 4 buttons to magnify did not seem to be an elegant solution for M lenses, but with a VF that good, I am not sure that focus mag is really needed most of the time
    9. Colors were Q like in some ways, M240 like in others....I need to get a better asssesment, as this was indoors in fluorescent light. Challenging for a camera to handle.

    I am more conflicted than ever about the camera. While I appreciate the 24-90 zoom's performance, it is huge and makes the camera, to me, feel very bulky. I am used to the "M" style of shooting, and this lens makes the camera feel like an SLR. When using M lenses, the experience becomes more enjoyable, but there's no AF to take advantage of. I see future primes as a great step forward for this camera, as long as lens size can be managed. What I really want is an update of the M240, but this camera does many things right and is worthy of the Leica name. It just seems to tackle a different, "pro" audience, but I am not sure how well it will tackle it with 1 lens available....

    Ultimately, more time is needed....until then, a few shots to share:, mainly with the Noct f/0.95, APO 50, or 80-200 f/4









    Nice write up. Pretty much what I expected from everything that I've read about the SL being somewhere in a "nether region" for a mirrorless camera but an ideal true R solution for those that retained their R kit. This seems like a great addition for those R owners specifically as it adds AF ability and what I assume are more friendly ergonomics in comparison to wielding an APO telephoto lenses on the end of a M camera.

    I also agree that I see a bit more M240 than Q in your shots... Specifically I see M240-like colors with Q-like rendering. I'm wondering if that's something that can be reprofiled in firmware as usually the only three complaints I ever hear about the Q are the price of entry, lack of widespread availability, or the decision to go with a 28mm lens. I personally think keeping the Q color profile (which I agree is somewhat of a throwback to more closely replicating M9 color) would be more desirable seeing how polarizing the opinions of the M240 color was for previous M9 owners/fans.

    In either case, thanks for supplying more shots beyond the Leica reviewers to this thread. I guess the next step is for someone to definitively to to rest questions about Leica branded M wides on the SL beyond the WATE and Summilux 21/24 which already work well on most mirrorless cameras.
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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    Thanks for the photos, Ashwin. This thread really needs more folks to have SL cameras in hand so we get beyond all these musings and into enjoying the photos the SL can make. Ach, another five days ... ;-)

    Quote Originally Posted by HiredArm View Post
    ... I guess the next step is for someone to definitively to to rest questions about Leica branded M wides on the SL beyond the WATE and Summilux 21/24 which already work well on most mirrorless cameras.
    I don't know about definitively putting to rest anything, but I will certainly be testing my M-mount lenses on the SL, at least briefly. My M lens kit is a mix of old and new, Leica and Voigtländer lenses. It's already whittled down to four whose performance I like on the M-P very much (Elmar-M 24 ASPH, Summilux 35 v2, Nokton 50 (LTM), Summarit-M 75, plus M-Rokkor 90 and Hektor 135 which I use only occasionally), so they'll be the first ones I test on the SL.

    G

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