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Thread: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

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    Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    No, I don't have one (yet) but I'd love to start seeing some images, so please post away!
    Brad
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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    Well, okay, I've had lots of fun with the SL, so here are some pictures

    Snapshots with the Leica SL

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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Well, okay, I've had lots of fun with the SL, so here are some pictures

    Snapshots with the Leica SL
    Very excited to get mine. I am tops on the list of someone who usually gets them early, so my hope is to have one very soon! For me, it will be M lenses (M-adapter T is on the way already) all the way, and then maybe the 90-280 to add to the mix.

    Jono, have you used the WATE on it? Does it work okay with infiniti focus? I presume the 28 cron may be a challenge, but i am hoping that using Leica lenses within the Leica ecosystem will permit better function than on the A series Sony cams.

    I am also very anxious to try my Noct on this camera, which may balance well on the body.


    By the way, great snaps, Jono. Looks like R lenses function brilliantly. Oh yeah, further, great work with the Macro elmarit and the Native lens. The images produced are amazing. Almost like a prime zoom, if that makes sense...
    Ashwin Rao
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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    Quote Originally Posted by ashwinrao1 View Post
    Very excited to get mine. I am tops on the list of someone who usually gets them early, so my hope is to have one very soon! For me, it will be M lenses (M-adapter T is on the way already) all the way, and then maybe the 90-280 to add to the mix.

    Jono, have you used the WATE on it? Does it work okay with infiniti focus? I presume the 28 cron may be a challenge, but i am hoping that using Leica lenses within the Leica ecosystem will permit better function than on the A series Sony cams.

    I am also very anxious to try my Noct on this camera, which may balance well on the body.


    By the way, great snaps, Jono. Looks like R lenses function brilliantly. Oh yeah, further, great work with the Macro elmarit and the Native lens. The images produced are amazing. Almost like a prime zoom, if that makes sense...
    HI There Ashwin
    I'm sure you'll enjoy it - I'm really sad I sold my Noct - I would have kept it if I'd known!

    I've done some serious comparisons between the SL, the A7ii and the M240 I'd say:
    M240 - 90%
    SL - 70%
    A7ii - 20%

    The Wate is completely fine - the 28 elmarit slightly soft in the corners at infinity . . . In the tests I did the A7ii was still smearing slightly with the 50 APO at f8!

    You might like to look about for the 35-70 vario elmar R f4 . . . and the macro elmarit 60 - both are great on the SL, and they're reasonably priced (for now!)

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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    I just started reviewing the WATE images on your page. Looks to be a solid performed.

    Is it me, or does the 35 lux have funky edges wide open? it's always hard to tell on websize prints....

    On a separate note, the Vario Elmar 35-70 looks nice, so thanks for the tip on that. I have heard that this was a Minolta-Leica collaboration (mixed reviews on only threads), but it seems to stand up well on a modern sensor, and you seemed to bond with that lens fabulously. The 75 cron shots have made me reconsider selling that lens (I have it but was considering parting with it). The 60 macro elmarit would be lovely. I have owned 2, but may end up with a third

    The colors in this series are quite nice, by the way. Great work
    Ashwin Rao
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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    Quote Originally Posted by ashwinrao1 View Post
    ....
    On a separate note, the Vario Elmar 35-70 looks nice, so thanks for the tip on that. I have heard that this was a Minolta-Leica collaboration (mixed reviews on only threads), but it seems to stand up well on a modern sensor, and you seemed to bond with that lens fabulously. The 75 cron shots have made me reconsider selling that lens (I have it but was considering parting with it). The 60 macro elmarit would be lovely. I have owned 2, but may end up with a third

    The colors in this series are quite nice, by the way. Great work
    Ashwin,
    The last version of the 35-70 Elmar w/ROM was a great lens, had that for my R8, loved it. I am waiting till they have the S adapter before I take the plunge, but already have the M adapter on the way.
    Al Tanabe

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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    Ashwin, I'd expect WATE and MATE both to function quite well on SL, because they're retrofocus lenses.

    The 35-70 f4 R should be outstanding. This isn't the Minolta design – Leica 'borrowed' the cheaper f3.5 35-70 kit lens from Minolta, but f4 is a Leica design.

    (And collectors have a few f2.8 35-70 R's. This would be magnificent on your SL but would cost even more than the body. )

    Kirk
    Last edited by thompsonkirk; 23rd October 2015 at 22:40.

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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    Sorry to be so ignorant, but what do these percentages refer to?
    Also, do you have any images of the SL itself with various M lenses mounted? This would go a long way in comparing size to the current M's versus just showing the SL with the new (and very large) 24-90.
    Thanks,
    Bob


    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    HI There Ashwin
    I'm sure you'll enjoy it - I'm really sad I sold my Noct - I would have kept it if I'd known!

    I've done some serious comparisons between the SL, the A7ii and the M240 I'd say:
    M240 - 90%
    SL - 70%
    A7ii - 20%

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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    Quote Originally Posted by rga View Post
    Sorry to be so ignorant, but what do these percentages refer to?
    Also, do you have any images of the SL itself with various M lenses mounted? This would go a long way in comparing size to the current M's versus just showing the SL with the new (and very large) 24-90.
    Thanks,
    Bob
    HI Bob
    the percentages were arbitrary - a representation of how well I felt the lenses worked.

    I'm planning a short report on this, and I'll try and pop in a couple of snaps of the SL with different lenses as well.

    Just this guy you know

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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    Quote Originally Posted by thompsonkirk View Post
    Ashwin, I'd expect WATE and MATE both to function quite well on SL, because they're retrofocus lenses.

    The 35-70 f4 R should be outstanding. This isn't the Minolta design – Leica 'borrowed' the cheaper f3.5 35-70 kit lens from Minolta, but f4 is a Leica design.

    (And collectors have a few f2.8 35-70 R's. This would be magnificent on your SL but would cost even more than the body. )

    Kirk
    Thanks Kirk for chipping in.
    As you say, the F4 is a Leica design - although I'm pretty sure that it was made by Kyocera in Japan (thank you Thorsten Overgaard and your lens compendium) . It also has a very useful 'macro' mode at the long end - works great and makes it a real lightweight one lens option on the SL

    The f3.5 35-70 is a Minolta co-operation - the earlier ones were made in Japan - but the later ones were made by Leica in Europe.

    Best

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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

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    Looking Forward SL with 24-90

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    Biscuit time SL with 24-90

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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

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    Yellow Hydrant SL with 24-90 47mm f4.5

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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    Hi Jono,

    thanks for these wonderful samples (like always I should say)!

    Would it be possible to post some RAWs maybe? One in great light, one in high contrast, etc?

    This would really help going forward for some like me

    Peter

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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    Hi Jono,

    thanks for these wonderful samples (like always I should say)!

    Would it be possible to post some RAWs maybe? One in great light, one in high contrast, etc?

    This would really help going forward for some like me

    Peter
    Hi There Peter
    I can't post raw files quite yet - but I will as soon as I can.
    all the best

    Just this guy you know
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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Hi There Peter
    I can't post raw files quite yet - but I will as soon as I can.
    all the best
    Great Jono!
    Looking forward,
    Thanks!

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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Looking Forward SL with 24-90

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    Biscuit time SL with 24-90
    Jono,

    I am more than a bit conflicted ... but nothing new there ... at my (our) age that might be a given.

    You have the ability to make a box of Crayons look amazing.

    Your initial Nikon D1x (?) photo.net pics were wonderful ...

    Now you have moved from an optical RF to a somewhat ungainly looking mirrorless camera
    with a zoom that competes with the Oti for mass and prodigious size.

    However respectfully I see nothing in the new new pics that transcend your small intimate RF
    gear's imaging.

    And I get it ... really I do ... Live view is the bomb ... and I have a Otus 85 and 55 with a Nikon D810
    in search of the ultimate capture.

    But realistically nothing about the SL says uncompromised ... other than the marketing.

    IT is a bit about faith ... like those of us who signed on to the original Leica S ... that the forthcoming
    lens and peripherals would be worth the sacrifice ...

    However the SL market is less likely to buy the long slow slog to fruition ... not likely to
    even know who Apsley Cherry-Gerrard or Robert Falcon Scott or Roald Amundsen are or what
    their sacrifice represents ....

    OK that is a bit of a stretch but here I have to say that the Emperor's new clothes do not seem
    to be all that the R10 was pictured in the minds of the faithful... yes seems like the sensor, that while not
    amazing is competent, but not marginally better than many sensors in cameras that are given away as
    vehicles to mount glass.

    Hopefully in a couple of years the new platform will be vey compelling ... if it is not marginalized like the T
    X and presumably Q....

    There is a great song ... Whip My Hair ...

    http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2ow0x8

    Just saying the folks at Leica Central need to define their game cause it seems like we are all getting whipped....

    Love the effort and your pictures as always ...

    I just committed to a M246 ... so I am in the fold ... but on the margin it seems.

    Warm regards,

    Bob
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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    The SL reminds me of a simplified shrunken Sinar M - more than S series...this is the backside of a Sinar M - the front side looks a lot like what Leica have delivered in SL ...what a pity the M was discontinued - it was 10 years ahead of its time and the genuine uber quality Zeiss primes that were matched to it are still good enough tos hoot 40+ megapixel backs with - easily...

    Sinar M and rare finder. by Peetey, on Flickr

    Ill be buying an SL - would rather use my M lens collection on a Leica than a smeary edged Sony output - and my Nocti is going to be even more awesome with EVF zoom focusing.. hopefully some decent autofocus glass ( primes) ... will arrive over the next few years- in the meantime I can hang my S glass off it for that.
    For me - how a camera feels in my hand is very important and then how good is the viewfinder and then how good are your lens choices ..Leica has always satisfied me on these three measures..

    Once I hit my sixties I think my eyes will be ready for autofocus - so there is plenty of time for Leica to deliver what I will probably have to go to.

    Thanks Jono for your contribution - again.
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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    Hi There Bob
    a long and interesting post - perhaps it deserves a long and interesting answer!
    Thanks for the kind words - always well received

    Quote Originally Posted by docmoore View Post
    Jono,


    However respectfully I see nothing in the new new pics that transcend your small intimate RF
    gear's imaging.
    No need for respect - and I certainly don't see anything in the SL pictures that transcends the IQ in the M240 (rather the opposite perhaps) Certainly I've not the slightest intention to stop shooting with an M

    Quote Originally Posted by docmoore View Post
    And I get it ... really I do ... Live view is the bomb ... and I have a Otus 85 and 55 with a Nikon D810
    in search of the ultimate capture.
    But I don't think I'm after the ultimate capture - I want the ultimate jack of all trades - and I quite agree with you that the sensor is there or thereabouts - rather than necessarily state of the art.

    But what I like about it is that I can take the dogs out in the pouring rain (or whatever other conditions) just with a camera over my shoulder, no bag, nothing but the camera - and the 24-90 zoom does pretty much what I want - very fast and efficiently, but more to the point - without really getting in the way - I like the way it works, the menus are minimal and the options are what I use - no more and no less . . . . If I want to use it in the evening I can stick an M lens on it and expect it to perform properly, without complaint and respecting the 1Xfocal length (speed setting) in the auto ISO.

    Quote Originally Posted by docmoore View Post
    But realistically nothing about the SL says uncompromised ... other than the marketing.
    I haven't read much of the marketing (it's kinda boring when you've used it) - but I think there are things that are uncompromised . . . for instance the EVF, (which I care about) and the shooting speed (which I don't), then there's the responsiveness (which I also care about).

    Quote Originally Posted by docmoore View Post
    IT is a bit about faith ... like those of us who signed on to the original Leica S ... that the forthcoming
    lens and peripherals would be worth the sacrifice ...
    Hmm, when I first used it I was pretty sure I'd want the camera and zoom . Personally I'm not sure that I want any more lenses . . I'd rather slap on my 50 'lux than deal with 50 f1.4 lens that's coming (which will compete with the Otus in size) - or an R lens.

    Quote Originally Posted by docmoore View Post

    Hopefully in a couple of years the new platform will be vey compelling ... if it is not marginalized like the T
    X and presumably Q....
    I don't think either of these have been marginalised (X cameras maybe). There's new lenses and firmware for the T, and I guess there will be new firmware (and possibly new models) of the Q. Small companies can't do everything at once!

    Personally - I have my M cameras with my M lenses - and then I have a second system; this is always an issue - the Em5ii and pro lenses is great (but I'm not totally sold on 4:3 format . . or 16mp . . which is also the issue with the T system - which has just been sped up it seems).

    I've often been tempted to go to the D810 - or even a D750 (24mp is enough for me) - but they won't shoot M or R lenses (which I have) and I want it for primarily for zooms, not primes (I'll shoot primes on the M240 thank you). The Sony is obvious, great for R lenses but the M lenses are seriously compromised and the zooms big and unconvincing.

    The SL will shoot all of these lenses elegantly and efficiently (even if the M lenses aren't quite as good as they are on the M240) I've got a nice 80-200 R zoom which works well, but the 24-90 covers almost everything I need (focuses nice and close too) and without any real compromise.

    So, for me it covers a number of bases - I don't envisage buying the 90-250 or the 50 lux for it (never say never ). But I can put it over my shoulder with a WATE in one pocket and a 50 'lux in the other and that's all I need for a day's shooting.

    . . . and it's really fun shooting with it too!

    Quote Originally Posted by docmoore View Post

    I just committed to a M246 ... so I am in the fold ... but on the margin it seems.

    Warm regards,

    Bob
    Well, you aren't on the margin, you're at the core - and my M is staying put - hopefully the next M will be even more compelling.

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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    But what I like about it is that I can take the dogs out in the pouring rain (or whatever other conditions) just with a camera over my shoulder, no bag, nothing but the camera - and the 24-90 zoom does pretty much what I want - very fast and efficiently, but more to the point - without really getting in the way - I like the way it works, the menus are minimal and the options are what I use - no more and no less . . . . If I want to use it in the evening I can stick an M lens on it and expect it to perform properly, without complaint and respecting the 1Xfocal length (speed setting) in the auto ISO.

    Hmm, when I first used it I was pretty sure I'd want the camera and zoom . Personally I'm not sure that I want any more lenses . . I'd rather slap on my 50 'lux than deal with 50 f1.4 lens that's coming (which will compete with the Otus in size) - or an R lens.

    Personally - I have my M cameras with my M lenses - and then I have a second system; this is always an issue - the Em5ii and pro lenses is great (but I'm not totally sold on 4:3 format . . or 16mp . . which is also the issue with the T system - which has just been sped up it seems).

    I've often been tempted to go to the D810 - or even a D750 (24mp is enough for me) - but they won't shoot M or R lenses (which I have) and I want it for primarily for zooms, not primes (I'll shoot primes on the M240 thank you). The Sony is obvious, great for R lenses but the M lenses are seriously compromised and the zooms big and unconvincing.

    The SL will shoot all of these lenses elegantly and efficiently (even if the M lenses aren't quite as good as they are on the M240) I've got a nice 80-200 R zoom which works well, but the 24-90 covers almost everything I need (focuses nice and close too) and without any real compromise.

    So, for me it covers a number of bases - I don't envisage buying the 90-250 or the 50 lux for it (never say never ). But I can put it over my shoulder with a WATE in one pocket and a 50 'lux in the other and that's all I need for a day's shooting.
    Great summary Jono and really helpful.

    I would see the SL exactly as you do and could see a big benefit for my shooting style with the 24-90 and my WATE, 1.0/50, 2/75 and 1.4/75. Maybe I would add the 90-280 for wildlife later.

    But I had a great offline discussion with another member from this forum and we came to the conclusion that the SL would also be a perfect complement to an existing Nikon kit with maybe a D810 and some primes and/or zooms. This is because first owning both systems would allow to shoot classical DSLR style with maybe the best contenders in each discipline and while Leica lenses really shine and stand out on the SL, there will never be some lenses available for the Leica, which would easily be covered by the Nikon system - think 80-400 or 200-500 just to get the extra reach with high quality. On the other hand the SL with the 24-90 and some primes (either M or R or via a future adapter also Nikon???) would make for a perfect full mirrorless alternative. But of course there are even other complementary features....

    WRT m43, this is an interesting comment, the more I shoot it, I have the feeling I am missing 3:2, although the Zuiko Pro lenses are really marvels, especially the 2.8/40-150. But finally the 16MP start becoming a limitation especially for some cropping and there is not much light at the end of the tunnel, as even a next generation EM1 would probably not get more than 20MP or so and this already might bring limitations WRT low noise high ISO. I see m43 more as a quick P&S system for my future, but then of course the Pro lenses are not really contributing to this idea. So maybe a EM5II with the standard 14-150 zoom and that's it.

    Lot of decisions ahead again
    Last edited by ptomsu; 30th October 2015 at 13:13.

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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    Thanks for the gallery, Jono. Even at webscale that's a lot to absorb. I was struck by the fine performance that the 35-70 f/4 turned in. It held up well alongside the 28 and 38 Lux/FLE images. Looking at the specs on that lens that Puts reprints, it seems that it is very good at all focal lengths at f/4 and awesomely sharp at f/5.6. So did you shoot it stopped down a bit, and if so, how hard is it to focus? (Incidentally, how does the "macro" setting work on that one?) Same question with regard to the M-primes that you were using. E-Bay listed 4-5 shiny, little-used ROM 35-70/4s when I looked a few hours ago. I'll be curious to see how many are left in a few weeks.

    It would be nice to see more pictures taken with the Macro-Elmarit-R 60. I have a real beater (1.5-cam, doesn't focus out to infinity), but it takes lovely garden pictures on an M[240].

    Availability of lenses like the ROM 35-70 and the highly regarded 90, 180, 280 R telephotos makes it really desirable that the R-L adapter, when it finally comes out, includes the cam and actuator to stop down the lens as you shoot. I'm not sure how metering works in this case, but they must have figured that out in the R6-9 series. The only question is why Leica would see a benefit to them (besides making customers happy) since they won't sell more R lenses. Perhaps we should help them understand that there is a springboard effect: the SL[601] will become the center of a cult, attracting great respect and a mystical reputation. Das Wesentliche, right?

    scott

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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    Quote Originally Posted by scott kirkpatrick View Post
    Thanks for the gallery, Jono. Even at webscale that's a lot to absorb. I was struck by the fine performance that the 35-70 f/4 turned in. It held up well alongside the 28 and 38 Lux/FLE images. Looking at the specs on that lens that Puts reprints, it seems that it is very good at all focal lengths at f/4 and awesomely sharp at f/5.6. So did you shoot it stopped down a bit, and if so, how hard is it to focus? (Incidentally, how does the "macro" setting work on that one?) Same question with regard to the M-primes that you were using. E-Bay listed 4-5 shiny, little-used ROM 35-70/4s when I looked a few hours ago. I'll be curious to see how many are left in a few weeks.

    It would be nice to see more pictures taken with the Macro-Elmarit-R 60. I have a real beater (1.5-cam, doesn't focus out to infinity), but it takes lovely garden pictures on an M[240].

    Availability of lenses like the ROM 35-70 and the highly regarded 90, 180, 280 R telephotos makes it really desirable that the R-L adapter, when it finally comes out, includes the cam and actuator to stop down the lens as you shoot. I'm not sure how metering works in this case, but they must have figured that out in the R6-9 series. The only question is why Leica would see a benefit to them (besides making customers happy) since they won't sell more R lenses. Perhaps we should help them understand that there is a springboard effect: the SL[601] will become the center of a cult, attracting great respect and a mystical reputation. Das Wesentliche, right?

    scott
    So much to talk about!
    Well the 35-70 f4 is great - the 'macro' mode is a push button beyond 70mm, and works really well. . . . the centre is excellently sharp, the corners a little less so, but it's a fine performer.

    The R-L adapter isn't due (apparently) until this time next year, and it's functionality is very much under wraps. However, you can stack a T to M and an M to R adapter very well (it brings up a list of R lenses in the lens profiles). M lenses are automatically recognised on the T to M adapter.

    Manual focusing on the SL EVF is really easy - without any of the focus aids, and personally I prefer to focus it stopped down (although I certainly agree that it wold be great if they produced an AASD adapter - auto aperture stop down) . . . but personally I feel it's more important psychologically than in actual fact. If you have a dSLR, then clearly you have to focus at open aperture or it's too dark . . which isn't the case with an EVF, and especially with this EVF!

    Just this guy you know
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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    ...what I like about it is that I can take the dogs out in the pouring rain (or whatever other conditions) just with a camera over my shoulder, no bag, nothing but the camera - and the 24-90 zoom does pretty much what I want - very fast and efficiently, but more to the point - without really getting in the way - I like the way it works, the menus are minimal and the options are what I use - no more and no less . . . . If I want to use it in the evening I can stick an M lens on it and expect it to perform properly, without complaint and respecting the 1Xfocal length (speed setting) in the auto ISO.

    ... I think there are things that are uncompromised . . . for instance the EVF, (which I care about) and the shooting speed (which I don't), then there's the responsiveness (which I also care about).

    So, for me it covers a number of bases - I don't envisage buying the 90-250 or the 50 lux for it (never say never ). But I can put it over my shoulder with a WATE in one pocket and a 50 'lux in the other and that's all I need for a day's shooting.

    . . . and it's really fun shooting with it too!
    A good nights sleep and a long day at work can give one a bit of perspective ...

    My complaint with mirrorless cameras has been not the concept but the marginal execution ... laggy EVF poor AF limited battery life and a build quality that
    is more akin to origami than industrial competence.

    If as you have found this camera answers those issues ... I will be in in a heartbeat.

    The bond one makes with a camera is profoundly more important than its specs.

    I look forward to testing one ... when the initial rush has settled down.

    I am pleased that you have the time and concern to share your experience and insight here ... a paragraph from you tells most of us more than all
    the web reviews and fluff that tends to be the norm elsewhere.

    Warm regards,

    Bob
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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Manual focusing on the SL EVF is really easy - without any of the focus aids, and personally I prefer to focus it stopped down (although I certainly agree that it wold be great if they produced an AASD adapter - auto aperture stop down) . . . but personally I feel it's more important psychologically than in actual fact. If you have a dSLR, then clearly you have to focus at open aperture or it's too dark . . which isn't the case with an EVF, and especially with this EVF!
    Jono, great that you mention this!

    I was kind of confused when I read Reid's review asking for that AASD and also some other reviewers mentioned the need to focus with open aperture and then stop down, which is nonsense once one knows how one can work with EVFs. No more need to stop down, focus at any aperture, see exactly the DOF you get plus the exact exposure - WYSIWYG!

    No doubt the Leica EVF excels here!
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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    With some of the lenses that seem a natural match for the SL, focusing wide open at 4 and focusing stopped down to 5.6 or 8 are probably about the same in accuracy, and the constant illumination of an EVF keeps the scene clear. But with a Summilux, wouldn't you want the extra precision of focusing wide open before stopping down for depth of field? Of course, if the situation is a wedding party in the garden around midnight, framing is more important than focus, and anything goes.

    scott

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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    Quote Originally Posted by scott kirkpatrick View Post
    But with a Summilux, wouldn't you want the extra precision of focusing wide open before stopping down for depth of field? Of course, if the situation is a wedding party in the garden around midnight, framing is more important than focus, and anything goes.

    scott
    Scott,

    Wide open for framing works but the number of lenses that do not exhibit focus shift can be counted on one hand ....

    So as you stop down your plane of focus shifts ... better to know where the focal point exists at the aperture you
    are using and frame accordingly.

    If you have the option focus bracketing will get you acceptable to great exposures....

    Bob
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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    But then the more you have stopped down the larger the depth of field and the less accurate framing would be.
    I also would assume with stopping down eventually noise in the viewfinder would increase and DR decrease.
    However thats more what I know from other cameras and I dont know if it is also the case for the SL finder.

    Since I personally like a lot shooting in the f2.0-4.0 these effects would not hurt me much. Still I would use a camera like the SL much rather with AF lenses, even though for stills and landscape manual focus might work very well.

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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    Quote Originally Posted by scott kirkpatrick View Post
    With some of the lenses that seem a natural match for the SL, focusing wide open at 4 and focusing stopped down to 5.6 or 8 are probably about the same in accuracy, and the constant illumination of an EVF keeps the scene clear. But with a Summilux, wouldn't you want the extra precision of focusing wide open before stopping down for depth of field? Of course, if the situation is a wedding party in the garden around midnight, framing is more important than focus, and anything goes.
    I know from extensive use of my R lenses on the A7 that focus shift is very well controlled. It makes sense that it has to be for auto diaphragm SLR lenses —because how many SLR shooters really do spend the time to do DoF preview as a normal part of their shooting routine? And isn't the control of focus shift one of the reasons for the more complex, larger SLR lens designs anyway? I always thought it was.

    There's always been more focus shift with RF lenses and their simpler designs, and photographers have always learned to compensate for it with experience and practice. That was always one of the selling points of the SLR too—easier to use with a broad range of lenses. RF users tend to use fewer lenses and really learn their lenses and cameras over a longer period of time. Prior to digital, we had to learn these things so that we could work in the future, pre visualizing what we'd get. We should always keep these things in mind.

    Live View and EVF full time shooting with digital capture and instant review changes things in profound ways. All these flaws that were a subsumed part of the photographer's experience become open to examination. We operate in the present rather than the future. The EVF brightens up the dark stopped-down world so we can see what's happening, clearly, and check it immediately. Auto diaphragm become a nicety, a nuance, rather than a functional necessity: with good lenses that don't focus shift, it allows an even brighter view with even more pinpoint accuracy in focusing, but stopping down does not rob us of the ability to see so severely.

    I so look forward to the SL and to the dedicated R Adapter SL accessory. I'm almost certain the Leica will provide AASD .. Why else take a year to produce a tube with flanges? But it won't degrade my enjoyment of the camera and my lenses in the meanwhile because I truly believe AASD is more a nicety and convenience with a viewfinder that has the SL's quality and responsiveness.

    My strategy in acquiring lenses has been to go with R primes for adaptation and wait on zooms for native lenses. I'm more comfortable with primes in the first place and they adapt more easily, for me, being simpler. When I want the versatility and complexity of a zoom, the added features of full integration, aperture control, and image stabilization are welcome benefits. I haven't yet decided whether to include the 24-90 in my SL order mostly on the basis of money spent in one lump, in one year, and I have all its focal lengths covered by R primes already, but I just might anyway.

    Can't wait for my SL to arrive so I can begin to contribute photos... :-)

    G
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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    ...

    Can't wait for my SL to arrive so I can begin to contribute photos... :-)

    G
    +1. Hoping to have pictures in December. I don't own R primes in the wide or normal range, but I have some gorgeous long telephotos, so based on Jono's gallery I went to E-Bay for a 35-70/4, which is close in quality to the first SL AF zoom, and weighs a heck of a lot less.

    When I said that in a crunch, framing is more important than focus, by framing I meant including the essentials of the shot, excluding distracting elements, and timing for the best expression, and by focus, sharp eyelashes.

    scott

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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    Quote Originally Posted by scott kirkpatrick View Post
    +1. Hoping to have pictures in December. I don't own R primes in the wide or normal range, but I have some gorgeous long telephotos, so based on Jono's gallery I went to E-Bay for a 35-70/4, which is close in quality to the first SL AF zoom, and weighs a heck of a lot less.
    I have R primes from 19 to 250 mm... (19, 24, 35, 50 x2, 90, 135, 180 x2, 250). More than I need really, but that didn't stop me from acquiring the Macro-Elmarit 60mm this past week, and the Macro Adapter R. Gods, that's a gorgeous lens! Call me weak-willed, but I'm happy. :-)

    I think I've convinced myself that I should have the 24-90 as well, anyway, despite its bulk. It just means I'll sell off my Hassy 500CM kit sooner rather than later to recoup some of the money, and I'd rather put $5K into a dedicated zoom than $1.5K into an adapted one, no matter how good.

    Quote Originally Posted by scott kirkpatrick View Post
    When I said that in a crunch, framing is more important than focus, by framing I meant including the essentials of the shot, excluding distracting elements, and timing for the best expression, and by focus, sharp eyelashes.
    I'm with you there, except when the essentials of the shot do include excruciating detail capture as it is for some of my still life work. Speaking of which, I'm going to have to get the folks at Really Right Stuff on the stick for a couple of dedicated tripod adapter plates for the SL ... And I think I need one of Acratech's Universal L-Bracket gizmos for the early Elmarit-R 180 and Telyt-R 250 lenses since they have fixed tripod mount points.

    G

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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    ...

    Can't wait for my SL to arrive so I can begin to contribute photos... :-)

    G
    Would the SL replace the Nikon D810 for you?

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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    Quote Originally Posted by Paratom View Post
    Would the SL replace the Nikon D810 for you?
    I have the D750, with never an intention of buying a D810, but yes: I'm expecting that I'll put the D750 up for sale shortly. I think the D750 is a fine body, but it doesn't make me smile the way the F6 does, which is what I bought it to complement. I'm inverting my camera strategy ... I was going to keep a Leicaflex SL and a couple of lenses because I enjoy it so much, but now I'd rather keep all my Leica R bodies and lenses while keeping only the F6 and a couple of favorite lenses.

    The SL kit has more future to it, and I love the design from what I've seen and studied in the manual. I'll get a chance to handle one on Friday; hopefully it will feel the way I expect it to in my hands.

    G
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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    I have the D750, with never an intention of buying a D810, but yes: I'm expecting that I'll put the D750 up for sale shortly. I think the D750 is a fine body, but it doesn't make me smile the way the F6 does, which is what I bought it to complement. I'm inverting my camera strategy ... I was going to keep a Leicaflex SL and a couple of lenses because I enjoy it so much, but now I'd rather keep all my Leica R bodies and lenses while keeping only the F6 and a couple of favorite lenses.

    The SL kit has more future to it, and I love the design from what I've seen and studied in the manual. I'll get a chance to handle one on Friday; hopefully it will feel the way I expect it to in my hands.

    G
    How times and opinions change! Some weeks ago you were planning to sell most of your R glass and go Nikon, now vice versa and buying an SL. Great decision anyway!

    Interesting that I will get a D810 as my workhorse camera, as Nikon does have some nice cash backs in Austria and I am really looking forward to that! No other system gives me the lens options like Nikon, especially in the tele-zoom range!

    Having said that I am also planning to get an SL, but not before next year, with the 24-90, but mainly also for using my M glass. and maybe I can find one or another R lens for a good price, which is always great fun!

    For me at least, both the D810 and the SL will be able to give me that smile you refer to. The D810, because of all its modern and advanced features in a DSLR body, the SL because of the full integration (at least for me) in the Leica system, where I am really home.

    All the best

    Peter

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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    Yes ... The SL was the camera that I heard rumored about three years ago, which is why I looked at R equipment and found such tremendous bargains compared to what it would have cost me in the 1990s. I've purchased 11 lenses at an average prices of about $450 apiece (a couple quite a bit more, several significantly less, in the 1990 it would have been $36-40K to acquire this lens kit where I have barely $5000 into it!). I'd lost heart about it somewhat with the A7 experiment, but shooting with the Leicaflex SL and the R8 brought back to me just how much I love these lenses.

    Leica shot me a broadside by announcing the SL a whole year earlier than I'd expected. I was/am already invested and prepared for it, so inverting my strategy was easy. :-)

    I'll keep the F and F6, the 18mm, 35mm, both 50mm, either the 85 or the Micro 105, and the 180mm in Nikon gear. Still not a small kit, but I have sentimental attachment to the F and a couple of those lenses.

    Most of the rest of my gear will become Leica M and SL. I have too much M stuff at the moment, so that will be pruned down a bit. Maybe once I prune it down, I'll replace the Nokton 50 with a coded Summicron or Summilux. Two bodies (one film, one digital) and four lenses is truly all I want in M gear.

    I'll keep the E-M1 around for a little while, want to see the Firmware 4.0 update through, and then I'll sell it off.

    As well my Hassy 500CM kit and the Nikon 9000 scanner ... I'm not getting much use out of that gear and it sells at a good price. To feed my occasional 6x6 need, I'll keep the SuperWide and the Perkeo II ... I don't care if I don't use those very often and I've worked out the details of using copy-camera techniques to scan 6x6 very nicely instead of the 9000. For the volumes I have in mind, that will work well.

    As I've said before, "Equipment is transitory. Photographs endure." Once I'm done, I'll have a few nice 35 and 6x6 film cameras to work with occasionally, a couple of nice Polaroids to work with for the instant film experience, and an integrated Leica kit with all the bodies and lenses I could want. And I think I'll be done and set for a good, long time so I can work on my book ideas without playing the equipment juggle and "next new great one" game.

    Now I have to go into the closet and find out where I've stashed all my SD cards ... I know I have two Sandisk Extreme Pro 64G in there somewhere! :-)

    G
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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    Can anybody here confirm if the 24-90 SL lens would extract when zooming or if it will be a constant length?

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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    It extends, but not too much.

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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    Quote Originally Posted by MGrayson View Post
    It extends, but not too much.
    ;( Thank you anyways. Not too much would mean roughly how far?

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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    Sorry, I did not measure it and do not have one with me. Less than a Canon 24-70/2.8, was my impression. Perhaps Jono will have a better answer. I only used it for a few minutes.

    --Matt

    Actually, a google image search turned up a picture from Jono's review of the camera sitting in very wet grass with the lens extended. Looks like about 2cm.
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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    Jono
    You are really wearing on me now. I mean this in a good way.

    When I first saw the SL, I thought, Oh no!, another Sony A7 for US$7500. Then I heard of the lens size/weights and drawn out time schedule. Because of all the above I nearly pulled the trigger on an A7R2. I just cannot bring myself to do that even though all but one of my Leica shooting buddies have opted for the A7R2 which they all universally love. They still own M's, but might divest themselves of them if the Sony keeps performing as it currently does for them and they acquire some good Zeiss Batis or Loxia glass, even though they still use some M lenses on the Sony.

    Your posts here have been rethinking my approach to what I might want in the future, but even though I am #1 on my Leica dealers list for an SL, I just might pass until the R-SL adapter becomes available. (I remember waiting for the M_R adapter which was a simple tube with 6 bit coding) I love the Q which based on your reports I bought. For me it is often just a bit too wide as I prefer 35mm FL for street work. I have an RX-1 and have never disliked the images it produces. AF was made for me what with one eye and even the good one getting worse from time to time. I keep defying the doctors.

    I am in a hurry at my late age to get more prints onto my print shelves before I go totally blind or just plain "go". I had 25 R lenses and sold most except for the 28-90 and APO180/2.8 in favor of keeping a full range of M lenses for my 3 M bodies which I use almost exclusively with the EVF (eyesight again). I find these R lenses work beautifully on the M's.

    Personally I do not see myself getting a huge lens for walk about shooting and since I use a MF 50MP sensor camera for most landscape I am trying to see how this latest "tool" will fit into my shooting needs. You sure have me rethinking everything once more Jono.
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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    Hi There

    Quote Originally Posted by algrove View Post
    Jono
    You are really wearing on me now. I mean this in a good way.
    Sorry!
    Quote Originally Posted by algrove View Post
    When I first saw the SL, I thought, Oh no!, another Sony A7 for US$7500. Then I heard of the lens size/weights and drawn out time schedule. Because of all the above I nearly pulled the trigger on an A7R2. I just cannot bring myself to do that even though all but one of my Leica shooting buddies have opted for the A7R2 which they all universally love. They still own M's, but might divest themselves of them if the Sony keeps performing as it currently does for them and they acquire some good Zeiss Batis or Loxia glass, even though they still use some M lenses on the Sony.
    Well, there's clearly an argument for it, and of course you have the extra resolution to go with the nice new Zeiss lenses. . . . . I just don't think it's the answer for M lenses . . . but I'm not sure that's terribly relevant to very many Sony users.

    Quote Originally Posted by algrove View Post
    Your posts here have been rethinking my approach to what I might want in the future, but even though I am #1 on my Leica dealers list for an SL, I just might pass until the R-SL adapter becomes available. (I remember waiting for the M_R adapter which was a simple tube with 6 bit coding)
    I'm using the T to M adapter and the M to R adapter stacked - it's firm and absolutely without wobble, and it reads the 6 bit code on the R adapter, so you can put the Lens Profile menu on one of the buttons - I have it on the bottom right - this means that when you attach a lens menu - tap the bottom right button and choose the lens from the menu (it remembers the last one you used). It's hardly a hassle, and the lens profiles and Auto ISO are adjusted accordingly.

    6 bit M lenses are just recognised and corrected for.

    Quote Originally Posted by algrove View Post
    I am in a hurry at my late age to get more prints onto my print shelves before I go totally blind or just plain "go". I had 25 R lenses and sold most except for the 28-90 and APO180/2.8 in favor of keeping a full range of M lenses for my 3 M bodies which I use almost exclusively with the EVF (eyesight again). I find these R lenses work beautifully on the M's.
    To be honest - if you're using R lenses on the M . . . . . the SL is a bit of a no-brainer, the EVF is so fantastically improved, and they handle really well with the larger body. Incidentally the 24-90 is a little larger than the 28-90 R (but I think it's probably a little lighter).

    Quote Originally Posted by algrove View Post
    Personally I do not see myself getting a huge lens for walk about shooting and since I use a MF 50MP sensor camera for most landscape I am trying to see how this latest "tool" will fit into my shooting needs. You sure have me rethinking everything once more Jono.
    Worth getting a play with one with your R lenses to see (the missing adapter really is a no-issue - especially as you'll be getting an M adapter anyway). I'm in Venice at the moment with an SL, an A7ii and an M, and the A7ii feels like a rather ponderous computer in comparison. But hey - that's probably just me, and it's certainly lighter!

    All the best

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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    Here are a few from today
    SL with 24-90 Vario Elmar in Venice

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    Trucking

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    Camel Love

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    Window Shopping

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    Venice

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    It's a dog's life

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    Talk Talk

    Just this guy you know
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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    Nice shots, Jono!

    I'm revising my order for the SL and including the 24-90 zoom as well. After some time thinking about it, I'd like one native lens with the camera that supports *all* its features and has OIS as well, even if I actually use an adapted R prime most of the time. And for me, I'd rather put $5K into a new, dedicated SL zoom than $1.5K into an R zoom that I need to adapt.

    Considering that the only other expensive thing I've been considering for some time now with respect to equipment has been a six-bit Summilux-M for the M-P, and that would cost me near as much as the SL's 24-90, and I don't really need it since the Nokton 50/1.5 is such a nice lens anyway, well, I just decided to defer the Summilux-M lens for a while. I'll buy that after I sell off enough other stuff to make up the funding. :-)

    G
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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Hi There



    Sorry!


    Well, there's clearly an argument for it, and of course you have the extra resolution to go with the nice new Zeiss lenses. . . . . I just don't think it's the answer for M lenses . . . but I'm not sure that's terribly relevant to very many Sony users.



    I'm using the T to M adapter and the M to R adapter stacked - it's firm and absolutely without wobble, and it reads the 6 bit code on the R adapter, so you can put the Lens Profile menu on one of the buttons - I have it on the bottom right - this means that when you attach a lens menu - tap the bottom right button and choose the lens from the menu (it remembers the last one you used). It's hardly a hassle, and the lens profiles and Auto ISO are adjusted accordingly.

    6 bit M lenses are just recognised and corrected for.



    To be honest - if you're using R lenses on the M . . . . . the SL is a bit of a no-brainer, the EVF is so fantastically improved, and they handle really well with the larger body. Incidentally the 24-90 is a little larger than the 28-90 R (but I think it's probably a little lighter).



    Worth getting a play with one with your R lenses to see (the missing adapter really is a no-issue - especially as you'll be getting an M adapter anyway). I'm in Venice at the moment with an SL, an A7ii and an M, and the A7ii feels like a rather ponderous computer in comparison. But hey - that's probably just me, and it's certainly lighter!

    All the best
    I must stop talking to you. I really hurts my bank account you know!
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  43. #43
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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    Quote Originally Posted by algrove View Post
    I must stop talking to you. I really hurts my bank account you know!
    Sorry - if it's any consolation, testing this camera has ruined mine (I escaped with the Q, the X etc. but not this time )

    Just this guy you know
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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Sorry - if it's any consolation, testing this camera has ruined mine (I escaped with the Q, the X etc. but not this time )
    LOL! I 'blame' you for the X, Jono, but not for the SL.

    I've been preparing and waiting for the SL to arrive for over three years now... They're just a little ahead of the schedule I'd been hoping for.

    BTW: The Macro-Elmarit-R 60mm f/2.8 arrived and is in better shape that I can really believe for a used lens. It's a 1983 model lens that looks like it has maybe been put on a lens mount twice before I got it. Absolutely pristine perfect in every way, the focusing helicoid is butter-smooth, everything works as if new.

    It sure makes my old Micro-Nikkor 55mm f/3.5 look and feel sad and beat-up. (Dang it. Now I'm going to have to take it out and make some beauty shots of the Nikkor ... ;-)

    G
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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    LOL! I 'blame' you for the X, Jono, but not for the SL.
    I'm glad someone isn't blaming me!

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    BTW: The Macro-Elmarit-R 60mm f/2.8 arrived and is in better shape that I can really believe for a used lens. It's a 1983 model lens that looks like it has maybe been put on a lens mount twice before I got it. Absolutely pristine perfect in every way, the focusing helicoid is butter-smooth, everything works as if new.

    It sure makes my old Micro-Nikkor 55mm f/3.5 look and feel sad and beat-up. (Dang it. Now I'm going to have to take it out and make some beauty shots of the Nikkor ... ;-)

    G
    Really one of my favorite lenses - small and really sharp and great to use - overshadowed by the 100 APO, but I'm more comfortable with the little 60.

    Enjoy!

    Just this guy you know

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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post

    It sure makes my old Micro-Nikkor 55mm f/3.5 look and feel sad and beat-up. (Dang it. Now I'm going to have to take it out and make some beauty shots of the Nikkor ... ;-)

    G
    My Macro-Elmarit-R 60 isn't a beauty like yours, but it reminds me very much of the old Micro-Nikkor, which I got good use out of in the 1970-85 timeframe (on a sturdy F, along with a trusty 105/2.5). So those older tools shouldn't make you feel sad -- they are just being reincarnated to serve a new digital platform.

    scott
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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    Quote Originally Posted by scott kirkpatrick View Post
    My Macro-Elmarit-R 60 isn't a beauty like yours, but it reminds me very much of the old Micro-Nikkor, which I got good use out of in the 1970-85 timeframe (on a sturdy F, along with a trusty 105/2.5). So those older tools shouldn't make you feel sad -- they are just being reincarnated to serve a new digital platform.
    The Micro-Nikkor isn't making me feel sad; it's just looking sad from all the years of heavy use it's gotten. Still works beautifully, though, and has on F, F6, D750, A7, E-M1, and M-P since I bought it in 2010.

    I had one (on loan from my uncle) way back in '69-73 too, used with my first Nikon F then. It's been one of my favorite lenses for the past forty years and some.

    I'm looking forward to seeing what the Macro-Elmarit can do, but the old faithful isn't going away. :-)

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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    Jono,

    What storage cards have you been using in the SL?

    I've allocated a pair of Sandisk Extreme Pro 64G SDXC rated at 95Mbps out of my stash for it. Should I be considering anything higher-end?

    Thx,
    G

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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    Jono,

    Trucking and Venice highlight to me that it can produce a fineness to the detail.
    Look at the birds eye in trucking. Even though the image is small you can make out detail.

    I am going to assume Talk Talk you either missed focus or had camera shake, its not good on my monitor.

    The nuanced rendition of these images reminds me of my Sigma Merrills more than anything but I think the colours are closer to real than what the Merrills produce.

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    Re: Fun with the Leica SL (digital)

    I was a little concerned as to how well this old Telyt-R 250mm f/4 v1 would image on the digital sensor, based on a discussion on another forum, so I pulled it out and fitted it to the M-P with the R Adapter M. I sampled four targets, two in the near-field focus range and two at distance, through all lens openings.



    My fears were ungrounded. Sharpness has a minor improvement from f/4 to f/5.6, it plateaus there edge to edge, and there's very little diffraction degradation even at f/22. A small amount of lateral CA is completely cleaned up by the standard LR Lens Correction tools.

    The handling is a bit clumsy when fitted to the M-P as the body has insufficient purchase and the electronic viewfinder is a little weak. It feels tight and balanced on the R8 and Leicaflex SL. I suspect it will work beautifully on the SL.

    G
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