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Leica S for interiors or architecture

justalexander

New member
Just wondering if anyone is using the Leica S to make a living shooting interiors and architecture?

I've tested the camera and found the profiles do not completely correct the complex distortion of the S lenses, especially at near to mid focus distances required for interiors. This was a simple test in my kitchen, note the bottom of the kitchen bench. Taken with the 24mm on a Leica SE. I love the camera but there's no way I could provide this to a client.

Anyone else finding similar distortion?
 

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anGy

Member
Did you try to adapt the distortion amount slider in LR ?
During my limited time with the 24mm I've found it useful to apply more or less than 100% distortion depending on the focus distance (the relative distortion is far more pronounced in the corners at close focussing distance (-5) than at infinity (-2)
 

justalexander

New member
Did you try to adapt the distortion amount slider in LR ?
During my limited time with the 24mm I've found it useful to apply more or less than 100% distortion depending on the focus distance (the relative distortion is far more pronounced in the corners at close focussing distance (-5) than at infinity (-2)
I have tried this but the results are never perfect. I would have hoped that Leica provided complete profiles taking into account focus distance in the same way Hasselblad does for its Phocus software. I don't believe I should have to apply half measures when working with a $30,000 camera/lens combination. Much of my work involves 1 point perspectives and I don't have the time to tweak sliders. Hasselblad provide a 1-click solution so I don't see why Leica cant as well.
 

anGy

Member
The consequence of Leica using DNG and Lightroom against Hasselblad using its proprietary software system I guess.
 

justalexander

New member
The consequence of Leica using DNG and Lightroom against Hasselblad using its proprietary software system I guess.
Unfortunately yes. But I would have thought Leica placed themselves above Hasselblad in terms of quality so I'm surprised they farm out their processing to a company which is also responsible for raw conversion from every other manufacturer. I get the impression that rather than do 1 thing properly, Leica are spreading themselves as thinly as possible producing numerous unnecessary new formats, none of which is done properly.
 

jlm

Workshop Member
i'm surprised your biggest issue isn't with the lack of a wide angle shift lens for the S, like a 24mm equivalent (about a 35mm)
 

Ken_R

New member
I would suggest you try a tech camera system. For the same price or less (most likely less) you can get stellar optical performance at the loss of great convenience (Which the Leica provides). I am pretty sure you could correct that distortion no problem and generate a profile in short order but yes, it is extra work and Leica should work hard to make superb lens profiles. That said the Leica 24mm looks sharp edge to edge and the rendering looks very nice.
 

justalexander

New member
Unfortunately I have limited funds despite having unlimited desires. Tech camera would be good but requires a Phase One or Hasselblad digital back. About $30,000 here in Australia. Then comes the tech camera and then the medium format camera and lenses.

A shift lens for the S would be amazing but I cant see Leica doing it. With my H3D I was able to shoot wide and correct the verticals in photoshop. Not the ideal solution but I managed to shoot interiors and architecture with it. I have an Sony A7RII with Canon TSE's which I'm using as an interim solution until I find something else.

The distortion of the Leica S lenses make it impossible to shoot any interiors or architecture at the moment.

Ideal world, Leica S with proper lens profiles for fast shooting and a Phase One back with Alpa for slower shooting. All up a $100,000 plus investment in Australia!
 

rsmphoto

Member
Unfortunately I have limited funds despite having unlimited desires. Tech camera would be good but requires a Phase One or Hasselblad digital back. About $30,000 here in Australia. Then comes the tech camera and then the medium format camera and lenses.

A shift lens for the S would be amazing but I cant see Leica doing it. With my H3D I was able to shoot wide and correct the verticals in photoshop. Not the ideal solution but I managed to shoot interiors and architecture with it. I have an Sony A7RII with Canon TSE's which I'm using as an interim solution until I find something else.

The distortion of the Leica S lenses make it impossible to shoot any interiors or architecture at the moment.

Ideal world, Leica S with proper lens profiles for fast shooting and a Phase One back with Alpa for slower shooting. All up a $100,000 plus investment in Australia!
Have you tried this?? It may be a solution.

http://wwwimages.adobe.com/content/...toshop/pdfs/lensprofile_creator_userguide.pdf
 

Ken_R

New member
Unfortunately I have limited funds despite having unlimited desires. Tech camera would be good but requires a Phase One or Hasselblad digital back. About $30,000 here in Australia. Then comes the tech camera and then the medium format camera and lenses.

A shift lens for the S would be amazing but I cant see Leica doing it. With my H3D I was able to shoot wide and correct the verticals in photoshop. Not the ideal solution but I managed to shoot interiors and architecture with it. I have an Sony A7RII with Canon TSE's which I'm using as an interim solution until I find something else.

The distortion of the Leica S lenses make it impossible to shoot any interiors or architecture at the moment.

Ideal world, Leica S with proper lens profiles for fast shooting and a Phase One back with Alpa for slower shooting. All up a $100,000 plus investment in Australia!

From what I have read/heard the A7RII with the Canon TS-E's are an awesome combination.

You can really put together a phaseone and tech camera kit for about $10k-15k. The PhaseOne P40+ back is superb and you can combine it with a 35mm XL Digitar and an Arca Swiss RM3Di body and have a stellar setup. That lens has basically no distortion and is quite sharp edge to edge and beyond. With a back like the P40+ (or IQ140, Credo40) you can shift it a lot and still retain the quality.

But as with all things photographic, equipment choices are a quite personal, YMMV. :)
 

BlinkingEye

New member
From what I have read/heard the A7RII with the Canon TS-E's are an awesome combination.
There is a famous south FL landscape photographer who shoots almost exclusively B&W through a conventional view camera and prints VERY large, like to eight feet width. He is getting well up there in years. The combo you state above is what he i experimenting with. I have spoken with him at length about his decision and he is very happy with with the 17mm T&S.

I studies his digital work very closely. Just let me say it is the photographer, not the..................
 

anGy

Member
From what I have read/heard the A7RII with the Canon TS-E's are an awesome combination.

You can really put together a phaseone and tech camera kit for about $10k-15k. The PhaseOne P40+ back is superb and you can combine it with a 35mm XL Digitar and an Arca Swiss RM3Di body and have a stellar setup. That lens has basically no distortion and is quite sharp edge to edge and beyond. With a back like the P40+ (or IQ140, Credo40) you can shift it a lot and still retain the quality.

But as with all things photographic, equipment choices are a quite personal, YMMV. :)
I have worked with the P40+ and Schneider digital combo on a Cambo WRS.
It was good fun, very crisp images from center to corners, rather lightweight and easy to set-up.
There was too much color cast for my liking (although C1 handles that quite nicely).
Using this system in combination with the Alpa distortion correction tool (that takes the position of the sensor in the lens image circle into account) brings lovely distortion free results.
A nice set-up I would re-invest in if it was wide enough. More often than not I wanted a wider angle, unfortunately.
 

justalexander

New member
Thanks guys. All interesting and possible solutions.

Adobe Profiler
In my experience has been a bit hit and miss, especially with wide angle lenses

Cambo/Alpa & Digital Back
I once compared a Canon TSE on 5DIII against a Cambo and Phase One. I shot a 4 frame stitch with the canon that had no magenta cast and had heaps of dynamic range whereas the Cambo/Phase required white calibration and didnt have the same dynamic range. It was a surprising win for the Canon.

Canon TSE
I've just upgraded from A7R to A7RII and for the some reason the quality of the 24TSE has dropped significantly! The 17TSE performs as it did on the A7R. I cant explain the drop in performance of the 24TSE but its now so poor that I have to shoot with the 17TSE and crop.

I have to admit I got spoiled by my Hasselblad. Everything was automatic and worked as it should. IQ was not technically as high as Leica or a tech camera, but none of my clients ever complained and the results were indistinguishable when they went to press.

Im keen to try the Alpa FPS, Phase One cmos, Canon 17 and 24 and Otus lenses.

Leica Tilt Shift
The Canon TSE are remarkable lenses. I wish however they stored metadata to allow for automatic lens corrections. Hasselblad HTS is also a brilliant solution but with a 1.5x factor on the new cmos back they are not nearly wide enough for architecture. Leica possess the necessary skill and resources to produce a no compromise solution but would only do so if it was economically viable. Maybe we need to start a petition to see just how many photographers want it.
 

synn

New member
From what I have read/heard the A7RII with the Canon TS-E's are an awesome combination.

You can really put together a phaseone and tech camera kit for about $10k-15k. The PhaseOne P40+ back is superb and you can combine it with a 35mm XL Digitar and an Arca Swiss RM3Di body and have a stellar setup. That lens has basically no distortion and is quite sharp edge to edge and beyond. With a back like the P40+ (or IQ140, Credo40) you can shift it a lot and still retain the quality.

But as with all things photographic, equipment choices are a quite personal, YMMV. :)
This.
Also, Leaf backs are generally cheaper. The Credo 40 can definitely be bought within this budget.
 

anGy

Member
Thanks guys. All interesting and possible solutions.

Canon TSE
I've just upgraded from A7R to A7RII and for the some reason the quality of the 24TSE has dropped significantly! The 17TSE performs as it did on the A7R. I cant explain the drop in performance of the 24TSE but its now so poor that I have to shoot with the 17TSE and crop.
Interesting,
I've spend some money in the S system and am not keen to invest another knee for a T/S wide solution with a digital back...
So I tryied 2 options:
* Use of the S 24mm (19mm eq.).
This lens is a pure marvel but a bit too wide for my taste, I would have prefered a 21mm eq.
And correcting the keystones in software was a bit primitive after having used the elegant Cambo WRS + Phase solution.
The wider than needed focal offered more latitude for cropping after keystones correction however.
The slight remaining distortion after LR correction was also bothering me, but didn't find it a show stopper.

* Use of the Canon 24mm T/S.
IQ Results were acceptable with the Sony A7r. Using this combo was great (tilt screen, zooming, peaking + T/S on the lens) and far more secure than guessing the focus zone and the frame after perspective correction with the S24mm.
But software corrected images from the S were clearly better in the borders and corners than the Canon 24mm shots, no contest.
I've upgraded my A7R for the A7rII and - as you said - found that the IQ was worse, quite disappointing.

I'm a bit puzzled now, don't know how to get a 21~24mm T/S option.
I'm even thinking about 'esoteric' options like using the Leica SL with an S to H adapter, an HTS without its optical part and a HC 24mm lens as a clever idea :banghead:
Getting a S24mm back is another option as I loved the sharpness of this lens and using it for making 2x1 pano.
 

justalexander

New member
Interesting,

* Use of the S 24mm (19mm eq.).
The slight remaining distortion after LR correction was also bothering me, but didn't find it a show stopper.

* Use of the Canon 24mm T/S.
I've upgraded my A7R for the A7rII and - as you said - found that the IQ was worse, quite disappointing.

I'm a bit puzzled now, don't know how to get a 21~24mm T/S option.
I'm even thinking about 'esoteric' options like using the Leica SL with an S to H adapter, an HTS without its optical part and a HC 24mm lens as a clever idea :banghead:
Getting a S24mm back is another option as I loved the sharpness of this lens and using it for making 2x1 pano.

Really interesting to hear that you also had the same experience after upgrading to the A7RII. I'm at a loss to explain WHY the 24TSE performs worse than on the A7R. Agree that the S24mm is a stellar perform but as I shoot a great deal of my work as 1-point perspectives ANY residual distortion is a deal breaker.

I've even tried the Phase XF with 28mm Phase/Schneider but surprisingly the edges have a great deal of smearing. In a side by side comparison my 5D with 24-105mm it outperformed the Phase/Schneider combination on the edges!
 

jlm

Workshop Member
A7R with 24 TSE II, hand held, shifted, as an example of straight lines staying pretty straight
 
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