airfrogusmc
Well-known member
But not without live view and with live view I'm out. I by a rangefinder because I want a rangefinder. Great Leica gives me that choice.
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Will the next Leica M have an EyeRes EVF?
- Thread starter animefx
- Start date
KeithL
Well-known member
Exactly, with the current M and hopefully the next M you have the choice to use a rangefinder or an EVF.
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airfrogusmc
Well-known member
And if they don't make an M like the M 262 I won't be buying the next generation M.
I very seldom use the VF2 on the M but find it sometimes usefull to have EVF/life view for wide angle or macro.
I think it extends the possibility of the M.
I dont see any lack in simplicity of the M to have the option to put an EVF on the camera.
SO for my taste it would be great to have the option to put an EVF as good as the SL EVF or at least like the Visoflex on an M body, even though I would use it not very often.
I am even kind of angry that I cant put the Visoflex from the T on the M. I think they should have made it compatible.
I think it extends the possibility of the M.
I dont see any lack in simplicity of the M to have the option to put an EVF on the camera.
SO for my taste it would be great to have the option to put an EVF as good as the SL EVF or at least like the Visoflex on an M body, even though I would use it not very often.
I am even kind of angry that I cant put the Visoflex from the T on the M. I think they should have made it compatible.
I suppose the Leica M "e-train" has already left the station, but personally I'm not sure it is the best idea longer term.
IMO, their track record with electronic components isn't exactly stellar, and they always seem behind on the specifications at launch time (it's tough to be conservative in the digital age of, "If more is better, than Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious is bestest).
The current flagship M can act like a DSLR, but it is a clunky contraption at best (reminds me of a great Jazz artists forced to strap a drum to his back, cymbals to his knees, hum into a Harmonica while strumming a banjo).
It can do movies, but is a poor substitute compared to almost any other choice at 1/3 the price.
Some folks feel all that stuff is better than nothing, where others would be just fine if they concentrated on keeping the M a tried and true rangefinder, and continuously worked on improving that dedicated aspect.
With sensors reaching such a high level performance, we are approaching a time when one could secure a M and keep it long term like we once could. That requires the camera to be simple and elegant, of the highest quality and flawless build ... backed up by stellar service. Maybe even overbuilt with a longer warranty. Personally, I'd pay for elegant design and function that's overbuilt, verses electronic-do-dads doomed to being outdated before you can lay hands on one.
With the advent of the versatile SL, and the possible developmental path of the Q as a digital age, interchangeable lens AF solution, it would seem that the M could have that burden lifted from it's back.
IF the M, for what it is, can't make its way in the new world order so be it. Obviously, the other Leica offerings like the Q, and other potential "inventions of need", can take its place and meet those new demands.
However, I firmly believe that there will always be those who would gravitate to M as a haven from the "video game with a lens", especially if it were a lifetime companion, or at least could be if you wished. Think about that ... there is something very satisifying about that notion.
Personally, I have a M Monochrome and love it, and I'm considering the M246 for color ... so my future Leica budget will go toward M lenses rather than yet another freakin' $7,000+ digital camera 3 years from now.
- Marc
IMO, their track record with electronic components isn't exactly stellar, and they always seem behind on the specifications at launch time (it's tough to be conservative in the digital age of, "If more is better, than Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious is bestest).
The current flagship M can act like a DSLR, but it is a clunky contraption at best (reminds me of a great Jazz artists forced to strap a drum to his back, cymbals to his knees, hum into a Harmonica while strumming a banjo).
It can do movies, but is a poor substitute compared to almost any other choice at 1/3 the price. Some folks feel all that stuff is better than nothing, where others would be just fine if they concentrated on keeping the M a tried and true rangefinder, and continuously worked on improving that dedicated aspect.
With sensors reaching such a high level performance, we are approaching a time when one could secure a M and keep it long term like we once could. That requires the camera to be simple and elegant, of the highest quality and flawless build ... backed up by stellar service. Maybe even overbuilt with a longer warranty. Personally, I'd pay for elegant design and function that's overbuilt, verses electronic-do-dads doomed to being outdated before you can lay hands on one.
With the advent of the versatile SL, and the possible developmental path of the Q as a digital age, interchangeable lens AF solution, it would seem that the M could have that burden lifted from it's back.
IF the M, for what it is, can't make its way in the new world order so be it. Obviously, the other Leica offerings like the Q, and other potential "inventions of need", can take its place and meet those new demands.
However, I firmly believe that there will always be those who would gravitate to M as a haven from the "video game with a lens", especially if it were a lifetime companion, or at least could be if you wished. Think about that ... there is something very satisifying about that notion.
Personally, I have a M Monochrome and love it, and I'm considering the M246 for color ... so my future Leica budget will go toward M lenses rather than yet another freakin' $7,000+ digital camera 3 years from now.
- Marc
KeithL
Well-known member
I've just received my M9-P back from Leica having had the sensor changed. I found myself trying to add an EVF to check the rangefinder adjustment. Nice idea but oh, red face! I was also trying to frame my 21 SEM with the OVF. Nice idea but oh, red face!
I was shooting product with the M240 the other day and tried to scroll magnified live view to check off centre focus. Nice idea but oh, red face!
I like the fact that my M240 is a simple rangefinder camera and I can use it as such, but I love the fact that I can change it in the blink of an eye to a far more adaptable camera. I can't imagine Leica will deliver the replacement for the current M without an accessory EVF or improved processor.
All I'm hoping for is that if Leica offer an accessory EVF then they offer a high quality accessory EVF and a processor that can keep up with it and in doing so allow me to own and use a classic rangefinder camera and modern electronic viewfinder camera in one body.
Hardly the stuff of radical change or pipe dreams.
I was shooting product with the M240 the other day and tried to scroll magnified live view to check off centre focus. Nice idea but oh, red face!
I like the fact that my M240 is a simple rangefinder camera and I can use it as such, but I love the fact that I can change it in the blink of an eye to a far more adaptable camera. I can't imagine Leica will deliver the replacement for the current M without an accessory EVF or improved processor.
All I'm hoping for is that if Leica offer an accessory EVF then they offer a high quality accessory EVF and a processor that can keep up with it and in doing so allow me to own and use a classic rangefinder camera and modern electronic viewfinder camera in one body.
Hardly the stuff of radical change or pipe dreams.
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airfrogusmc
Well-known member
Those things make Leica M just like every other camera out there. I call them the ones size fits all cameras. I am glad I actually have a choice like the MM which I have the original and love, the new 262 which does everything i need a camera to do without all the distractions and the M-E. So I praise Leica for giving me the color option with the 262 of a lighter, quieter, easier to negotiate menu without all the stuff I don't want at a price point that is cheaper.
That is a true alternative to everything else out there.
I see your point, even though I dont feel the M type 240 to have anything more distracting. When used without EVF for me it just feels like a rangefinder.
But good to have choices
The lower weight and quieter shutter are good reasons for the 262, but I assume they dont have anything to do with the question if an EVF can be connected or not.
By the way I found the M type 240 (and same is valid for the 262) to be closer to a film M than the M9. Why? Because they are faster to use (buffer etc), more silent shutter, and the buttons and wheels feel more solid.
If the 262 is even more quiet and somewhat lighter it would be my choice as well if I would buy a new M body at the moment.
airfrogusmc
Well-known member
It's not only lighter and quieter, the reason I say less distracting is the menu is much easier to negotiate because it's not as large. No video or live view.
Godfrey
Well-known member
I don't find the video or live view features in the M-P menu add much in complexity. It's just a few items (3? 4?) longer. If that.
airfrogusmc
Well-known member
Have you read any of the reviews of the 262? The menu is a lot smaller (IIRC the 240 has 5 pages the 262 only 2)and I have found it much easier to negotiate.
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You make me want to have a look at the 262. I wonder how much quieter it is and how much lighter it feels. Personally the menues would be not a big thing for me, but slimmed menues wouldnt hurt.
If I would buy a new M body today it would probably be the 262.
ptomsu
Workshop Member
The 262 looks interesting indeed! But so close to the next big M release at PK 2016, I rather may wait
Godfrey
Well-known member
Yes, the M262 has two main pages and the M240 has five. BUT that doesn't tell the whole story. Have you compared the M240 vs M262 features and instruction manuals?
The M262 menus are shorter for one of three reasons: functions have been moved to submenus, functions are simplified and have no options, or functions are not supported. It's up to you whether having options is important or whether you consider the simplified functionality adequate to your needs and desires, independent of the elided features.
If you difference the M240 vs M262 menus, this is what you get ... considering the M240 menus as a baseline, the M262 menus are different the following ways.
in submenus:
auto slow sync
flash sync mode
contrast
saturation
sharpness
JPEG resolution
flash sync mode
contrast
saturation
sharpness
JPEG resolution
That's one page right there. Is it easier to get to these functions through a submenu or on the main menu?
no options:
light metering mode (no advanced modes, only classic)
DNG Compression (can't find whether it's compressed or uncompressed)
frame line color
acoustic signal (does it have one? can you shut it off?)
histogram (only intensity)
exposure metering (only classic mode, no pattern options)
color space (only sRGB)
film mode (eg: missing B&W film and filter modes; only contrast/saturation/sharpening)
DNG Compression (can't find whether it's compressed or uncompressed)
frame line color
acoustic signal (does it have one? can you shut it off?)
histogram (only intensity)
exposure metering (only classic mode, no pattern options)
color space (only sRGB)
film mode (eg: missing B&W film and filter modes; only contrast/saturation/sharpening)
There's a second page removed due to simplification/no options.
no support:
EVF brightness
focus aid
focus peaking
Exposure simulation
USB mode
Audio
Video recording
focus aid
focus peaking
Exposure simulation
USB mode
Audio
Video recording
There's the third page. These are the truly unsupported items due to the removal of Live View, EVF support, and video recording. You could consider two of the second set (light metering mode and exposure metering) to be in this class since they are dependent upon Live View.
Analyzing the M262 menus, I would say that the M262 would likely be fine for me, but I would miss the options on DNG compression, frame line color, histogram display, and film mode. I don't think putting the flash and image quality items into submenus is any simpler than having them on the main menu either; it's just different.
And as I've said before, on the occasions when I use the 24, 90, or 135 mm lenses, I find the M/M-P typ 240's EVF nets a better viewfinder and improved focusing accuracy. I don't use these lenses that often, but it's nice to have the option.
If I truly wanted utter simplicity, I'd buy an ME60 body, 35-50-75 lenses, and that would be the whole kit. No JPEG engine, no display, no video, no live view, just a simple camera and raw files.
G
airfrogusmc
Well-known member
If I could have found an M60 new for $5100 I would have bought one. :thumbup:Yes, the M262 has two main pages and the M240 has five. BUT that doesn't tell the whole story. Have you compared the M240 vs M262 features and instruction manuals?
The M262 menus are shorter for one of three reasons: functions have been moved to submenus, functions are simplified and have no options, or functions are not supported. It's up to you whether having options is important or whether you consider the simplified functionality adequate to your needs and desires, independent of the elided features.
If you difference the M240 vs M262 menus, this is what you get ... considering the M240 menus as a baseline, the M262 menus are different the following ways.
in submenus:
auto slow sync
flash sync mode
contrast
saturation
sharpness
JPEG resolution
That's one page right there. Is it easier to get to these functions through a submenu or on the main menu?
no options:
light metering mode (no advanced modes, only classic)
DNG Compression (can't find whether it's compressed or uncompressed)
frame line color
acoustic signal (does it have one? can you shut it off?)
histogram (only intensity)
exposure metering (only classic mode, no pattern options)
color space (only sRGB)
film mode (eg: missing B&W film and filter modes; only contrast/saturation/sharpening)
There's a second page removed due to simplification/no options.
no support:
EVF brightness
focus aid
focus peaking
Exposure simulation
USB mode
Audio
Video recording
There's the third page. These are the truly unsupported items due to the removal of Live View, EVF support, and video recording. You could consider two of the second set (light metering mode and exposure metering) to be in this class since they are dependent upon Live View.
Analyzing the M262 menus, I would say that the M262 would likely be fine for me, but I would miss the options on DNG compression, frame line color, histogram display, and film mode. I don't think putting the flash and image quality items into submenus is any simpler than having them on the main menu either; it's just different.
And as I've said before, on the occasions when I use the 24, 90, or 135 mm lenses, I find the M/M-P typ 240's EVF nets a better viewfinder and improved focusing accuracy. I don't use these lenses that often, but it's nice to have the option.
If I truly wanted utter simplicity, I'd buy an ME60 body, 35-50-75 lenses, and that would be the whole kit. No JPEG engine, no display, no video, no live view, just a simple camera and raw files.
G
Godfrey
Well-known member
Can't even get an M262 for $5100 ... B&H lists them for $5200. :angel:
Second-hand Prices on ME60 bodies are pretty low right now. I think Brad is offering his for $6900 at present.
If I could afford it I'd grab it at that price, but my money went for the SL. I'll have to make do with the M-P.
G
airfrogusmc
Well-known member
JEEZE bust my chops for $95. Ok I paid 5195 for mine and I have it with warranty. Still a waiting list at B&H. If the M60 was 5195 I would have bought a new one.
Godfrey
Well-known member
Just having fun... :grin:
The M262 is a good deal for that price. Enjoy it!
I so wanted to see Leica release the ME60 as a standard production item without all the special edition finish and price premium.
G
airfrogusmc
Well-known member
I was in that camp also. I held off on getting color bodies for my advertising/commercial work hoping that would be the case but when they announced the 262 and I had a chance to buy one I did. Bought an M-E also and sold all of my Canon gear which almost paid for the Leica gear. I was going to have to do something. My Canon bodies had over 150K each so I was going to have to do something soon. I wanted something less automated than the M240 or M-P.