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Thread: Leica Service

  1. #1
    Workshop Member Woody Campbell's Avatar
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    Leica Service

    I thought that we should have a thread on Leica service. My own experience has been mixed trending to poor recently. There are a number of posts documenting poor service in the thread comparing the 007 to other MF cameras started by glenerrold.

    I would like to hear from others about their experiences with Leica service. Not just complaints, but good experiences as well. Also any tips on how to communicate with Leica and how to get the best out of them. (For example I've found it frustrating that human beings don't answer the New Jersey number and the voice mail box is typically full so it's impossible to leave a message. And emails typically aren't returned. Are there work-arounds?)

    In due course I'll see that this thread gets passed along to Leica through one of the dealers who I work with.

    I'll discuss my experience in a separate post.

    Thanks.

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    Senior Member doug's Avatar
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    Re: Leica Service

    My experience has been mixed trending worse in the last few years.

    I was delighted when Leica serviced my DMR for free, but at the same time my R8 racked up thousands of frequent-flyer miles on multiple trips between Sacramento and New Jersey fixing an aperture control problem. This took about one year to resolve; each time the camera returned to me it took about 5 minutes to confirm the problem had not been fixed.

    Every time my 280/4 APO needs service I can expect at least three months downtime and more often than not when it returns there's a new problem, i.e., the aperture linkage is disconnected, caps are missing. It's in Germany now, and after three months I still haven't gotten an estimate for repair cost. The previous time it needed service (for its biennial sticky aperture blade cleaning) the service time was six months. I've called several times to follow up on my lens and on the fifth try after no returned phone calls I was able to talk to a real person who said I should see the estimate within 2 weeks. We'll see about that.

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    Re: Leica Service

    Woody, while I admire your initiative, I wonder if it will have any impact what-so-ever?

    This site isn't the only place that Leica owners have voiced frustration and downright anger over their experiences and subsequent treatment ... including the LUF. Leica must be aware of it, and judging from the on-going service horror stories, choose to ignore it, or chalk it up to a bunch of malcontents.

    Frankly, I'm tired of reiterating my service issues on different forum sites, or even discussing it with Leica representatives because nothing changes ... or judging from the different websites with Leica components, it appears to have gotten worse.

    However, the victims of poor service have no idea how prevalent service nightmares may be. Also, buyers of luxury/premium products are always more vocal because expectations are much higher.

    Personally, I'm grateful they are fixing issues at all ... many of which are free even after warranty period: IR issue with the M8 (free filters), Cracked sensors (M and S replacements), corroded sensors, seemingly high failure rate of S and CS lens AF.

    Without doing an arm's length laundry list of failures and service issues with the Leica gear I've owned over the recent past (since the M8), suffice it to say that it sure isn't a level service experience one should reasonably expect from such high priced gear. The communication is almost non- existent, follow-up is close to zero, and wait times seem to inconsistently range from days for a lucky few, to 1/2 year+ for an unlucky few ... with most falling somewhere in between.

    I get the feeling that there is simply no accountability.

    What is particularly disconcerting are items being shipped back in a worse state than when sent off to Leica. Yikes!

    - Marc
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    Re: Leica Service

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    many of which are free even after warranty period
    true !

    Frankly, I'm tired of reiterating my service issues on different forum sites, or even discussing it with Leica representatives because nothing changes
    But maybe a long thread only for that could have an impact
    Leica M

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    Re: Leica Service

    I'm probably the outlier here. My Leica gear over all the years has only very rarely required service of any kind, Leica NJ picks up the phone when I call and answers emails when I send them. The local tech rep answers my emails and the local dealer helps out when I ask.

    I don't know what I'm doing right, but I'm going to keep on doing it—which is nothing special as far as I know.

    G

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    Subscriber and Workshop Member MGrayson's Avatar
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    Re: Leica Service

    I don't think this is too , but it's important to compare with the alternatives. I sent a decentered lens to Cambo that came back worse. Went again, and came back ok, but not as good as new. Several months, expensive repair (discounted in embarrassment, I think), and a customer left without confidence.

    I have luckily not needed Leica service, but will let you all know how it goes if I do.

    --Matt

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    Re: Leica Service

    I'm in the middle of Leica NJ service hell right now, so I can only confirm what most everyone else is saying. Emails and voice mails never get answered, it's almost impossible to get anyone on the phone other than the front desk, who will transfer you to someone's voice mail. Overall it's unprofessional and extremely frustrating. Months come and go without news, and a camera that should be making money is on a shelf, somewhere in New Jersey, or Germany.

    How are they compared to the competition?
    Zeiss always gets back to me, if only to tell me that they no longer service anything after a few years.
    Hasselblad knows exactly where your cameras and lenses are, when you can expect them back, how much it will cost, etc. They always answer phone calls and emails.
    I've never had a problem with my Canon gear that couldn't be fixed same-day by a local shop. That's obviously the preferred solution.

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    Re: Leica Service

    Quote Originally Posted by Bernard View Post
    I'm in the middle of Leica NJ service hell right now, so I can only confirm what most everyone else is saying. Emails and voice mails never get answered, it's almost impossible to get anyone on the phone other than the front desk, who will transfer you to someone's voice mail.
    Email should always be the prefered method of communication I think for dealing with companies these days. I don't like to check my PERSONAL voice mail, let alone my work one. Plus there are countless examples of getting in touch with companies these days on places like Facebook and Twitter, assuming the company has set up a social media team. I know you mentioned that Leica is not responding to your emails but I thought i'd chime in with this anyway. My first step is always an email, and it usually gets resolved assuming I can wait a day or so. YMMV.

    If Leica is building this fancy new facility I hope they start to take customer service seriously. If they want to command these prices they need to realize that expedient and good service is part of the ticket price in the mind of the consumer. Or they should work with local shops to develop a repair network. Nearly everyone I've talked to that has dealt with Leica service has some pretty egregious complaints, and that's not even mentioning the online exchanges like this.

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    Senior Member sjg284's Avatar
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    Re: Leica Service

    Quote Originally Posted by Speedgraphic View Post
    Email should always be the prefered method of communication I think for dealing with companies these days. I don't like to check my PERSONAL voice mail, let alone my work one. Plus there are countless examples of getting in touch with companies these days on places like Facebook and Twitter, assuming the company has set up a social media team. I know you mentioned that Leica is not responding to your emails but I thought i'd chime in with this anyway. My first step is always an email, and it usually gets resolved assuming I can wait a day or so. YMMV.

    If Leica is building this fancy new facility I hope they start to take customer service seriously. If they want to command these prices they need to realize that expedient and good service is part of the ticket price in the mind of the consumer. Or they should work with local shops to develop a repair network. Nearly everyone I've talked to that has dealt with Leica service has some pretty egregious complaints, and that's not even mentioning the online exchanges like this.
    Agreed, I have a camera out to them right now..
    I started the repair process via email.. Though they ended up calling and playing voicemail tag with me... and then back to email since they didn't seem to listen to voicemail.

    It took them a week to confirm receiving my camera, I have no ETA on test/estimate yet.. hopefully this is not a prolonged ordeal.
    I have a sticky/stiff shutter release so hopefully this isn't much to diagnose and then fix. It is now out of warranty, so ... we'll see.
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    steve

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    Re: Leica Service

    Okay, so here's my latest. I sent a CS180 in for the dreaded AF failure on May 11/16. This was supposed to have been a fast-tracked repair after speaking directly with John Kreidler who interfaced with Jim Mooney, the S Repair coordinator in NJ.

    After I shipped in May replete with the official Leica service request form, I heard nothing from Leica. My only proof that they had the lens was my tracking number from UPS and indication that it was signed for at the loading dock. Then nothing.

    Yesterday I returned home to find a UPS sticker on my door indicating that after one attempt to deliver I have to go to a UPS store to retrieve the package. Even though I provided e-mail address and cell text information, Leica didn't bother to forward a UPS notification of the impending delivery so I could track it and be there to sign for it. This it the third time this has happened with Leica shipments in the last year.

    The next step is to go get it (if it is there), then check that the lens is in the same perfect shape it was when shipped with all parts sent (no guarantee of that), and then ... whether they fixed it.

    Not a terrible experience, but not a premium one either, I mean how difficult would it be to at least notify the customer of a tracking number like everyone one else on the planet does.

    So, I guess fast-track means a wee bit under 3 months.

    I'm still waiting for a new S charger to replace the loaner they sent me. That is also 3 months old.

    My friends, I'm telling all of you ... this happens because there is no accountability. There is no follow up for the company to gauge performance ... in fact, no after service communication what-so-ever.

    We can howl at the moon forever, send off e-mail petitions, grumble to one another ... but no accountability, no customer policy, no initial contact and no follow-up means nothing will change.

    Every time I get my Lexus serviced, the dealer busts a hump to take care of me because they know that I'll immediately get a phone call and an e-survey directly from Lexus ... and that there is hell to pay for anything less than a stellar experience.

    - Marc
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    Re: Leica Service

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Yesterday I returned home to find a UPS sticker on my door indicating that after one attempt to deliver I have to go to a UPS store to retrieve the package. Even though I provided e-mail address and cell text information, Leica didn't bother to forward a UPS notification of the impending delivery so I could track it and be there to sign for it. This it the third time this has happened with Leica shipments in the last year.
    Another pro-tip haha! If you get the UPS app and a UPS account (which I believe is free), UPS will always notify YOU when you have a package coming, and they provide alternate locations for delivery if you can't be home to get it. This has saved me in Brooklyn countless times because like most people, I don't have a door man, and do have a job.
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    Subscriber and Workshop Member MGrayson's Avatar
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    Re: Leica Service

    While I have no standing with Leica, I do have a close relative who can get a message all the way up the chain, and I'm having lunch with him today. I'll try to get this on his radar. He gets loaners instantly and doesn't care how long repairs take, so he may not be aware of the feelings in our community.

    I also never got a response from Mr. Mooney. Fortunately, my problem corrected itself.

    --Matt

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    Re: Leica Service

    On a positive note....I've had only one Professional service experience with Leica in Solms Germany for an S VE 30-90. My dealer sent the lens in for me, but I am a registered member for their repair Professional Repair service in Solms. The zoom lens had a very loose zoom ring, nothing as major as a broken CS shutter. Turnaround time was less than three weeks, which included their Christmas break. Can't complain about that. Haven't yet had a problem with my S2 or the S 006 that replaced it, over the past 4 years, shooting on location 125-150 days a year averaging 300 exposures/day.

    Richard

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    Re: Leica Service

    I'm quiet happy with the Leica Customer Service. There might have made a small mistake, but it's absolutely not bad.

    I'm always communicating by email directly to leica germany ([email protected]). Response has always been within 24-hours, but sometimes it's very prompt and it's possible to get a response within 1 hour (I have had as many as 5 responses within one day, when i was asking questions about the quote etc.). My communication has always been with the same person...probably something like the last 30 emails.
    I have had two repairs this year (a camera and some lenses)...for both it took about two months. I did get a notification and track-and-trace.

    The good stuff:
    • They replaced the reflex tube of my v1 MATE to reduce the flare problem of this lens (which was actually not so expensive).
    • They send me a free replacement hood of the 35mm fle summilux because of the slight change in design of the newer hood to better accomodate filters.
    • My M9 was repaired for free after 5 years of ownership. This wasn't the usual sensor corrosion, but instead reading out the sensor went totally crazy (random purple/green lines all over the image).
    • I lost the rubber eyecup of the WATE finder. They send me a new one (free).


    The bad stuff:
    • It took them about a week to send a confirmation of the delivery. It would be nice if this could be done faster, at least I was getting a bit nervous during that week because i also lost track-and-trace when the package entered germany .
    • I lost the red index ball on one of my lenses. They told me they would replace it for free, but I think they forgot. That would be the only mistake so far from their side.

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    Re: Leica Service

    One experience so far with Leica Customer Service: the already above-mentioned AF failure for one of my S-lenses.

    Pro: the AF motor was replaced for free under goodwill warranty.

    Con(s): all of the above, it took 2 months, lots of unanswered emails, communication via mail whereas email was requested, unannounced shipments, etc.

    I remember reading the interview with CEO Oliver Kaltner:

    "In 2015, we set in motion an extensive process of transformation, focusing primarily on the strategic change from a pure hardware company to a hardware, software and services enterprise"

    and thinking: Dude, you have got a bit of a road ahead of you...

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    Re: Leica Service

    Hi, gang. I'm new here, but an old hand at Fred Miranda's.

    My main kit is Nikon/Nikkor, but I picked up a Leica Certified M240 and three lenses about a year and a half ago. I love this setup, especially for travel, and the lens quality is impressive.

    Regarding service, I've had my M240 back to New Jersey twice. The first was for a line of dead pixels that appeared to need sensor mapping. Leica responded quickly, replaced the sensor, and had the camera back in a month. Communication was good and my dealer (Kenmore Camera) helped in this regard.

    My second experience was with a rangefinder that recently needed recalibration. Unfortunately, this couldn't be done locally and the camera had to go to NJ. This visit took longer (approximately six weeks) but my camera was just out of warranty and Leica could have charged me for this service. They didn't, and handled the recalibration as a goodwill service. They cleaned my sensor in the process. Communication was good throughout.

    So, all-in-all, my service experiences with Leica have been good thus far and I'm a satisfied customer. I'm thinking about picking up an S 006 kit, so I might have the opportunity to put this good experience to the test.

    I have two pieces of advice for Leica regarding service. First, a west coast service shop, in addition to New Jersey, could benefit customers, and the company alike. Second, from all my reading, it seems that Leica is doing a huge amount of goodwill warranty service. Between the CCD sensor problems and the S lens autofocus motor issues, this has to be a significant financial burden for the company, not to mention a frustrating experience for customers. If significantly improving product reliability is not a top priority for the company, I would suggest that it needs to be.

    A quick note about reliability and my service experience with Nikon. In general, my Nikon cameras have been very reliable. My Nikkor lenses have been a mixed bag. When a lens collar broke on one of my lenses, Nikon insisted that it had to have been dropped. It hadn't been. Apparently, this is a common reaction from Nikon when a product breaks; claim user negligence. This probably helps the P&L of the Nikon service department, but I found it infuriating and it really soured me on the brand. That, plus the superiority of Leica's lenses, is what first got me thinking about buying outside the Nikon Family. A letter to Nikon's CEO in Japan, politely explaining my experience and long history with Nikon, went unanswered. So, I guess the grass isn't always greener ...

    Cheers,
    Jeff

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    Re: Leica Service

    Quote Originally Posted by Speedgraphic View Post
    Another pro-tip haha! If you get the UPS app and a UPS account (which I believe is free), UPS will always notify YOU when you have a package coming, and they provide alternate locations for delivery if you can't be home to get it. This has saved me in Brooklyn countless times because like most people, I don't have a door man, and do have a job.
    I already am a UPS account subscriber and wondered why I wasn't notified. Inexplicably Leica NJ addressed the package label to the local UPS store nearest me, and UPS left a sticker on my door. I have zero idea why, and it is just that sort of inconsistency that can be unnerving given the value of these items.

    All's well that ends well ... I have it now and the AF works again. I have to wait until it is daylight here to test the AF accuracy, but suspect it will be fine. Thank Got since I have a job next weekend that'll take me 7 hours driving to get to, and there will be no second chances.

    Back to work on the last job that has to be delivered tomorrow.

    - Marc

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    Member erick.boileau's Avatar
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    Re: Leica Service

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    I have a job next weekend that'll take me 7 hours driving to get to
    In Europe when we have to drive 1 hour for a job we find it already very far :-)
    Leica M
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    Re: Leica Service

    Hanging out with my S(006) in Norway for some landscape and street shooting.

    I rented a 24mm lens (which I love, love, love). Day 3 into the vacation and the AF malfunctions ... arghhh.

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    Re: Leica Service

    Same experience here. Failed AF with my 24mm S lens yesterday, in a photo workshop with a famous Austrian photographer. I believe now that the AF will fail in all the S lenses, sooner or later. Last time this happened with the 70 CS, the lens was back from repair in 3 weeks. We will see how long it takes this time. Whoever designed the AF mechanism at Leica should be hanged by his ears (or other dangling body parts) and left to dry in the wind.

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    Re: Leica Service

    Marc,
    I just had a nearly identical experience. I returned an S120 macro lens that I had owned for less than a month for repair to Allendale after speaking to John Kreidler and Ken Hansen. There was discussion that the lens, being less than a month old before malfunctioning, might simply be replaced with a new one but there were no used 120s' to be found so off it went to the old country. Similarly, I received no confirmation or receipt beyond my FedEx paperwork. Ken Hansen ultimately found a new lens and shipped it to me at his personal expense with aparently no support from Leica. Yesterday I received an unheralded package from Leica. I will not bother opening it as it is going directly to Ken so I can not comment on the quality of repair but the elapsed time and lack of communication are at best sub standard for a company that prides itself in its excellence. With that said, one can not possibly say enough for Ken Hansen

    Douglas

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Okay, so here's my latest. I sent a CS180 in for the dreaded AF failure on May 11/16. This was supposed to have been a fast-tracked repair after speaking directly with John Kreidler who interfaced with Jim Mooney, the S Repair coordinator in NJ.

    After I shipped in May replete with the official Leica service request form, I heard nothing from Leica. My only proof that they had the lens was my tracking number from UPS and indication that it was signed for at the loading dock. Then nothing.

    Yesterday I returned home to find a UPS sticker on my door indicating that after one attempt to deliver I have to go to a UPS store to retrieve the package. Even though I provided e-mail address and cell text information, Leica didn't bother to forward a UPS notification of the impending delivery so I could track it and be there to sign for it. This it the third time this has happened with Leica shipments in the last year.

    The next step is to go get it (if it is there), then check that the lens is in the same perfect shape it was when shipped with all parts sent (no guarantee of that), and then ... whether they fixed it.

    Not a terrible experience, but not a premium one either, I mean how difficult would it be to at least notify the customer of a tracking number like everyone one else on the planet does.

    So, I guess fast-track means a wee bit under 3 months.

    I'm still waiting for a new S charger to replace the loaner they sent me. That is also 3 months old.

    My friends, I'm telling all of you ... this happens because there is no accountability. There is no follow up for the company to gauge performance ... in fact, no after service communication what-so-ever.

    We can howl at the moon forever, send off e-mail petitions, grumble to one another ... but no accountability, no customer policy, no initial contact and no follow-up means nothing will change.

    Every time I get my Lexus serviced, the dealer busts a hump to take care of me because they know that I'll immediately get a phone call and an e-survey directly from Lexus ... and that there is hell to pay for anything less than a stellar experience.

    - Marc
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    Re: Leica Service

    Because of this thread and many others regarding the failed AF I passed on the 007 system, though my M8, M9 and M240 with three lenses luckily have never needed any service. I had two of the thre camera corrected for focusing by local technicians because of the story's with Sloms.
    When I read these stories I often wonder why you guys don't use the dealer service and if you do why you don't lean on them?

    Regards

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    Re: Leica Service

    Quote Originally Posted by bab View Post
    Because of this thread and many others regarding the failed AF I passed on the 007 system, though my M8, M9 and M240 with three lenses luckily have never needed any service. I had two of the thre camera corrected for focusing by local technicians because of the story's with Sloms.
    When I read these stories I often wonder why you guys don't use the dealer service and if you do why you don't lean on them?

    Regards
    The protocol has us sending the failed item to Leica USA who evaluates whether it can be done there or has to be sent to Germany. Apparently all of the S system AF issues have to be done in Germany. It isn't the same as the mechanical M repairs or adjustments which could be done locally ... or even by expert third party repair people.

    - Marc

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    Re: Leica Service

    Quote Originally Posted by baudolino View Post
    Same experience here. Failed AF with my 24mm S lens yesterday, in a photo workshop with a famous Austrian photographer. I believe now that the AF will fail in all the S lenses, sooner or later. Last time this happened with the 70 CS, the lens was back from repair in 3 weeks. We will see how long it takes this time. Whoever designed the AF mechanism at Leica should be hanged by his ears (or other dangling body parts) and left to dry in the wind.
    Just out of curiosity I googled "Leica S AF drive" and this page was right at the top: https://us.leica-camera.com/World-of...Leica-S-Lenses
    I'm sure some of you have already made use of this, but non the less this seems to be a common enough occurrence to have warranted an official statement from Leica.

    On a side note, what sort of AF motor do the S lenses use anyway? The ring motors used in most modern DSLR lenses from Canon, Nikon, et al. seem practically indestructible from a mechanical standpoint, since it's just three rings with current passed through them. Not sure why Leica missed the opportunity to use that technology. Even a good ol' screw drive would've been more reliable than a micro motor; they're obnoxiously loud, but I've never seen one fail...

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    Re: Leica Service

    From the above linked Leica notification:

    "In rare cases, a defect may appear in the autofocus drive unit of Leica S-Lenses. Under certain unfavorable conditions, this may lead to a complete loss of the autofocus function."

    While it is commendable that Leica acknowledges and accepts responsibility for the S system lens AF failures, I wonder what those "certain unfavorable conditions" may be, and just how rare AF failure actually is? It sure the hell hasn't been rare for me, so I have to assume my lenses operate under those "certain unfavorable conditions". What those conditions could possibly be baffles me since I pamper my gear, and treat it with the respect it deserves at all times.

    Actually, the biggest question I have is not what causes it, but whether the repair being done fixes it for good ... since if I recall correctly, all my CS lenses have failed (35, 45, 70, 120, and most recently the 180). The exception so far is the S100/2.

    What is also odd is that the original S lenses I bought with the S2P camera never failed ... it was only later, after doing the Leica swap program to get CS versions, did the failures begin.

    - Marc

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    Re: Leica Service

    The only way to get a message across to Leica, is to covey it with your wallet/or lack thereof.

    If one is content with their service, for the price they charge for their products, then I guess one deserves the service one gets.

    Fanboys not withstanding.
    Between Friends
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    Re: Leica Service

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    From the above linked Leica notification:

    "In rare cases, a defect may appear in the autofocus drive unit of Leica S-Lenses. Under certain unfavorable conditions, this may lead to a complete loss of the autofocus function."

    While it is commendable that Leica acknowledges and accepts responsibility for the S system lens AF failures, I wonder what those "certain unfavorable conditions" may be, and just how rare AF failure actually is? It sure the hell hasn't been rare for me, so I have to assume my lenses operate under those "certain unfavorable conditions". What those conditions could possibly be baffles me since I pamper my gear, and treat it with the respect it deserves at all times.

    Actually, the biggest question I have is not what causes it, but whether the repair being done fixes it for good ... since if I recall correctly, all my CS lenses have failed (35, 45, 70, 120, and most recently the 180). The exception so far is the S100/2.

    What is also odd is that the original S lenses I bought with the S2P camera never failed ... it was only later, after doing the Leica swap program to get CS versions, did the failures begin.

    - Marc

    It seemed like the first lens failures were consistently the 120 Macro ... everyone assumed that the long focus distance from macro to infinity and all the big glass elements
    was responsible .... then after a period of time the number of lenses affected grew at an increasing rate of failure. Not sure if the majority of those were older well used lenses
    reaching a failure point as some lenses failed while sitting on dealers shelves. I received a new S 006 ... demo ... and a dead on arrival 70 non CS that was new. Both went back to
    the dealer.

    My present S 006 and two lenses are at my dealer now ... thought I had a sensor problem but probably nothing. However all of the service discussion has spooked me a bit ... thought I
    might move to a S 007 if the sensor was bad ... but I have told the dealer that I will probably look at other camera manufacturers for a replacement. My difficulty is that as many S owners
    know ... there is little that in my mind approaches the convenience and output from the S. My lenses at the dealer are fine ... pre-repair status as they have not failed ... yet. They are
    two of my all time favorite lenses ever ... the S 100 and S 45.

    So I vacillate between returning to the Monochrom 246 (hopefully less chance of sensor corrosion), moving to the X1D ... or pitching it all and buying a D5 and Df.

    Most of this lens failure is due to a subcontracted plastic gear ... according to people in the know. I guess the replacement is metal. I wonder if the leaf shutter in the CS lenses
    precluded the ring motor that most DSLR lenses employ.

    I do wish that the S generation came along after the SL and Q ... seems like Leica has improved as those two cameras are stellar.

    I am in no way a "fanboy" but I do know a great image when I see it and I have seen too many from Leica products to dismiss them outright.

    Bob

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    Re: Leica Service

    Quote Originally Posted by rayyan View Post
    Fanboys not withstanding.
    This is hardly a forum for fanboys. We are talking about very specialized tools, their uses, and their limitations. Fanboy forums just talk about "my camera rox, your camera sux."

    Do I wish that Leica's repair service in the US (and Canada) was better? Of course I do, and I am confident that having this type of discussion will encourage them to improve.

    That doesn't make the S a bad camera or system. Frankly, nothing else remotely approaches the system's strengths: one of the best viewfinders ever, a body that's smaller than a pro-level 35, a lens line that is optically flawless, access to older medium format lenses that aren't flawless but that give you a killer look. It's a unique proposition on the market right now.

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    Re: Leica Service

    Quote Originally Posted by docmoore View Post
    I am in no way a "fanboy" but I do know a great image when I see it and I have seen too many from Leica products to dismiss them outright.

    Bob
    Even though Leica tools seem to have been in the hands of good photographers, it means to me that good photographers rather than the Leica gear they used made the images great.

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    Re: Leica Service

    Quote Originally Posted by algrove View Post
    Even though Leica tools seem to have been in the hands of good photographers, it means to me that good photographers rather than the Leica gear they used made the images great.
    I guess we have to equip all those great photographers with Holgas and see them produce work that outstrips the fanboys and their Leicas, eh?

    G

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    Re: Leica Service

    Quote Originally Posted by algrove View Post
    Even though Leica tools seem to have been in the hands of good photographers, it means to me that good photographers rather than the Leica gear they used made the images great.
    I agree but assume that the photographer who chooses a brand does so based on its inherent imaging ability and learns to minimize its flaws ... be it Leica, Holga, Canikon, wooden box with LF lens. I tend not to share my
    misses ... I rarely share those pictures with which I am pleased.


    Bob
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    Re: Leica Service

    Quote Originally Posted by docmoore View Post
    I agree but assume that the photographer who chooses a brand does so based on its inherent imaging ability ....
    In essence, particular equipment makes great photographs possible by providing capability. It's up to the photographer to understand what the equipment can do and exploit that, whatever it might be.

    G
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    Re: Leica Service

    Unless I have completely misread, misunderstood and/or
    Misinterpreted this thread; we are discussing after sales service of Leica ( Sxx ) series of cameras. And that invariably does bring into the discussion of Leica's other camera offerings.

    Whether Leica lenses and camera systems are the ' best ' of all that is available is
    a different thread.

    ' specialized tool ' is of no use, if it is unreliable, subject to random and unexplained failures, or stays for long times in the factory for repair....it has failed
    its user. One pays a certain price and expects a certain degree of service levels from and of the equipment. Paying a relatively high price for Leica, one would reasonably expect an equivalent level of quality control and a much higher level of
    repair service than for a mass market priced camera system.

    That responsiveness to Leica customer's queries and complaints be handled courteously and quickly should be normal.

    I own a relatively expensive watch. It is supposed to be passed on to coming
    Generations. It is excellent. Is accurate only twice in 24 hours.
    Between Friends
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    Re: Leica Service

    Quote Originally Posted by rayyan View Post
    One pays a certain price and expects a certain degree of service levels from and of the equipment. Paying a relatively high price for Leica, one would reasonably expect an equivalent level of quality control and a much higher level of repair service than for a mass market priced camera system.

    That responsiveness to Leica customer's queries and complaints be handled courteously and quickly should be normal.

    I own a relatively expensive watch. It is supposed to be passed on to coming
    Generations. It is excellent. Is accurate only twice in 24 hours.

    Leica had expertise in glass and mechanical RF cameras that essentially were bombproof ... were upstaged by the Nikon F camera
    but have had a passionate customer base for years.

    They have gained a huge amount of knowledge and expertise in digital imaging in a short period of time.

    As a small company that has been through a number of management and ownership cataclysms they do have to catch up to the
    Six Sigma level of reliability and support. Watching their progress I imagine that it will occur ... but with the new new internet short
    attention span ... 3 seconds off to a new site if no response most are unwilling to wait for the upgrade. However ... all they need to do
    is communicate ... contact the customer and keep him informed. Work with pros who are not media stars and answer their concerns.
    Treat those of use who have decades of photography experience like colleagues ... not dolts.

    I too did the watch thing ... bought a tractor equivalent ... a Rolex Submariner in 1982 ... sold it for 3 times what I paid for it and moved
    to a Panera 31 years later ... when I was 16 I had a Timex ... 12 years without a complaint and it was more accurate than either of the above. I now wear
    a Seiko Japanese edition Titanium diver ... 1/10th the cost and just as accurate. I do not have a generation coming along to gift my purchases ...
    thank God for that or I would have bought a Patek Phillipe ... and they would have not appreciated the sentiment.

    I take solace in the fact that my hobby is somewhat limited in costs ... nothing compared to flying Warbirds, country club membership and fees,
    racing exotic cars ... and my passions do not include anyone other than the woman I have known and cherished for 38 years.

    I find that the level of service across the board is less intimate and personal as it has become more global.

    And I know that we are more willing to grant a modicum of patience and beneficence to someone we know or who makes contact in the midst of
    a struggle that we do to an unknown unresponsive entity.

    So yes we are very unhappy with the current state of Mudville .... hope they can up their game as their product is worth a certain amount
    of sacrifice ... within limits.

    Bob
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    Re: Leica Service

    Quote Originally Posted by docmoore View Post
    Leica had expertise in glass and mechanical RF cameras that essentially were bombproof ... were upstaged by the Nikon F camera
    but have had a passionate customer base for years.

    They have gained a huge amount of knowledge and expertise in digital imaging in a short period of time.

    As a small company that has been through a number of management and ownership cataclysms they do have to catch up to the
    Six Sigma level of reliability and support. Watching their progress I imagine that it will occur ... but with the new new internet short
    attention span ... 3 seconds off to a new site if no response most are unwilling to wait for the upgrade. However ... all they need to do
    is communicate ... contact the customer and keep him informed. Work with pros who are not media stars and answer their concerns.
    Treat those of use who have decades of photography experience like colleagues ... not dolts.

    I too did the watch thing ... bought a tractor equivalent ... a Rolex Submariner in 1982 ... sold it for 3 times what I paid for it and moved
    to a Panera 31 years later ... when I was 16 I had a Timex ... 12 years without a complaint and it was more accurate than either of the above. I now wear
    a Seiko Japanese edition Titanium diver ... 1/10th the cost and just as accurate. I do not have a generation coming along to gift my purchases ...
    thank God for that or I would have bought a Patek Phillipe ... and they would have not appreciated the sentiment.

    I take solace in the fact that my hobby is somewhat limited in costs ... nothing compared to flying Warbirds, country club membership and fees,
    racing exotic cars ... and my passions do not include anyone other than the woman I have known and cherished for 38 years.

    I find that the level of service across the board is less intimate and personal as it has become more global.

    And I know that we are more willing to grant a modicum of patience and beneficence to someone we know or who makes contact in the midst of
    a struggle that we do to an unknown unresponsive entity.

    So yes we are very unhappy with the current state of Mudville .... hope they can up their game as their product is worth a certain amount
    of sacrifice ... within limits.

    Bob
    Hey Bob - apart from the Q are what other cameras are you using atm?

    Pete

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    Re: Leica Service

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterA View Post
    Hey Bob - apart from the Q are what other cameras are you using atm?

    Pete
    Hi Pete,

    Have cleared the closet at the present ... which is ok as the heat index in Dallas is around 108F and
    I only spend time out to care for the lawn after 1000AM in the morning. Going to Skye and the
    Hebrides this September but probably just with the Q as it is a family trip.

    My S 006 is at Camera West and I may return to it or move to a S 007 M246 or the X1D. I do not
    print any more after my Epson 4900 had a terminal clog so any of these will be enough
    resolution ... it is rare for me to do anything bigger than 8x10 ... and my last couple of outsourced
    prints were terrible.

    So really hoping to see some decent RAW pictures from the Hasselblad to decide.

    Bob
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    Re: Leica Service

    First hand experience with a series of extremely poor customer service experiences with Leica NJ. Several months of waiting on repair of S lenses, no communication and in one case a lens being returned without any repair with no explanation and no response to my several emails as to why it was sent back unrepaired.

    Also got cheated by Leica by having to pay $750 for failed AF motor in the S 35MM only to find out later that this is an inherent defect in the S lenses and Leica is repairing them for free. Pathetic bunch of cheats.

    Anyway sold off the S2 and lenses and decided not to upgrade to the newer S as I was planning. In addition, will not buy any Leica product in the future. So I have voted with my wallet.

    And speaking of customer service, a mass market company that I had very low confidence in, totally delighted me with excellent service recently: DELL Computer, repaired an 11 month old laptop replacing keyboard, power switch and mouse-pad. All this in 5 days, including sending me pre-paid FedEx box and shipping it back via 1-day air. I didn't have to pay for any shipping, repaired under warranty. I was kept updated throughout the process via email with the status of the repair and followed up by a customer service manager. They basically provided me with premium service for a low end $450 laptop. I take it that they value me as a customer.
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    Re: Leica Service

    I don't have any current Leica service experiences but I had a M9 that required a sensor replacement once. It was done within 2 months and was relatively stress free as I had another body that was problem free.

    It sounds like like many of you are getting the short end of the service stick and that alone would be enough for me to dump them as a company if I experienced the same. It doesn't matter whether you email or make a phone call - a company should ALWAYS return some form of correspondence or hire additional help if they're that overwhelmed. No excuse for that and I'd replace all of my offending regional "help" if I were a Leica Manager/Executive that read this thread. That's how I roll though.
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    Re: Leica Service

    I dropped off my M240 at the start of July for the rangefinder to be calibrated (infinity was off, 2 years of bumping it around had taken its toll?) and for my 35mm lux asph to have its wobbly barrel fixed. Its 20 odd years old and had been getting progressively worse...
    The City London branch wasn't so helpful, suggesting that I visit the Mayfair branch for it to be sent away. The Mayfair branch have been responsive and helpful whist I wait. fingers crossed they both arrive back at the start of September!

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    Re: Leica Service

    Quote Originally Posted by doug View Post

    Every time my 280/4 APO needs service I can expect at least three months downtime and more often than not when it returns there's a new problem, i.e., the aperture linkage is disconnected, caps are missing. It's in Germany now, and after three months I still haven't gotten an estimate for repair cost. The previous time it needed service (for its biennial sticky aperture blade cleaning) the service time was six months. I've called several times to follow up on my lens and on the fifth try after no returned phone calls I was able to talk to a real person who said I should see the estimate within 2 weeks. We'll see about that.
    Following up on the promised estimate "within 2 weeks", still nothing. No surprise.

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    Re: Leica Service

    Quote Originally Posted by doug View Post
    Following up on the promised estimate "within 2 weeks", still nothing. No surprise.
    Frustrating...

    btw Doug I decided on an SL after testing it for a week or so...your comments regarding the EVF were very helpful to me in my evaluation ( why don't they fix this via firmware?) - I also discovered a flaw/weakness in auto focusing with the 90-280 in circumstances where there is little contrast between background and subject - these aside, it is a camera good enough to have been called the R10. Fix the EVF issue and provide the option of a 40-50 megapixel chip as an option for landscape shooting....is all I can see missing.

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    Re: Leica Service

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterA View Post
    Frustrating...

    btw Doug I decided on an SL after testing it for a week or so...your comments regarding the EVF were very helpful to me in my evaluation ( why don't they fix this via firmware?) - I also discovered a flaw/weakness in auto focusing with the 90-280 in circumstances where there is little contrast between background and subject - these aside, it is a camera good enough to have been called the R10. Fix the EVF issue and provide the option of a 40-50 megapixel chip as an option for landscape shooting....is all I can see missing.
    Until the S is substantially upgraded with a new sensor, I see no other Leica camera getting a sensor that exceeds the current S007.

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    Re: Leica Service

    Quote Originally Posted by rich_ View Post
    I dropped off my M240 at the start of July for the rangefinder to be calibrated (infinity was off, 2 years of bumping it around had taken its toll?) and for my 35mm lux asph to have its wobbly barrel fixed. Its 20 odd years old and had been getting progressively worse...
    The City London branch wasn't so helpful, suggesting that I visit the Mayfair branch for it to be sent away. The Mayfair branch have been responsive and helpful whist I wait. fingers crossed they both arrive back at the start of September!
    My Camera and lens arrived back on the 18th. So around 6 weeks to have my Summilux repaired and rangefinder re-calibrated. Happy with the service and my Lens has never felt as sturdy (although focusing a bit stiff right now and i'm sure it's heavier! perhaps the bits causing it to wobble previous had sheared away and then were replaced, Or i'm too used to the Q!)

    I bought myself an old 50mm Elmar to celebrate. Hopefully I still use the Q! :-)

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    Re: Leica Service

    Got a call today from Leica Store Wien today that my S 24 mm is repaired and ready to be collected, exactly two weeks after I dropped it off there with a faulty AF motor. Can't complain.

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    Re: Leica Service

    I finally got my S back as well, after two and a half months. The communication got slightly better near the end, but not to the point where emails get answered quickly. You really need to get somebody on the phone before they will reply to your emails.

    That being said, the camera itself is so good that the level of service is almost tolerable. I certainly wouldn't put up with it if I could get the same package and results from another brand.

    Just to summarize, the slow turnaround is one problem, but the lack of communication is also a problem.
    It shouldn't take over two months to ship the camera to Germany and back. Hasselblad has sent some of my equipment to Sweden and back in a couple of weeks.
    Emails should be answered. Spending a half hour on the phone (mostly on hold) just to get a status is a waste of everybody's time.

    It should be interesting to see what the whole "Leica for Professionals" thing is at Photokina. I hope it will be a real effort to improve the level of support for working pros, and not just a marketing campaign where they give free cameras to a few top shooters in exchange for positive write-ups.
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    Re: Leica Service

    Well finally I can chime in with my experience. Late last year I bought a second Monochrom body so that I could carry a two-body/two-lens setup and to have a backup in case there was a service issue with my existing Monochrom. After my new body arrived I sent the old one in to NJ for service, including a sensor replacement. It came back in April completely refurbished and in excellent working condition. In the meantime the frame line lever came of of my new Monochrom and disappeared, probably on the streets of NY So . . .

    In mid April 2016 I sent to Leica NJ for service the following:

    The new Monochrom with the missing frame lever with instructions to replace it with a chrome lever if possible (a little vanity on my part).

    My 135 APO Telyt for a CLA and 6-bit coding. The lens was apparently performing well but it's a nuisance not having it coded.

    My 50mm Sumichrom Asp. The is one of the earliest copies of this lens - its been in continuous heavy daily use for three years. I sent it in asking for a CLA and asked them to check that it was in spec from a flair standpoint. I had read the early flair controversy on the lens but never sorted out whether there was really a problem because I was satisfied with the lens. The front segment of the lens mount had developed a slight amount of play. My back up 50mm is a pristine 50mm rigid Sumichron from 1962 so I could suffer the absence of the Asp. in good humor.

    Not a peep until the end of May when I received 3 email acknowledgements of receipt that ended with "Thank you and have a nice day", which irritated me sufficiently that I sent back a fairly tough replay.

    Nothing further until early July when I received estimates back from Leica by email for the 135 APO and body, but not the 50mm APO. I received a separate email note on July 13 that the lens had been sent to Germany for repairs.

    The Monochrom and the Telyt arrived back on my doorstep on Sept 1. I have no idea of where the 50mm Asp. since Leica doesn't reply to emails and the voice mail box in NJ is full so you can't leave a message.

    The Monochrom is perfect and a pleasure to shoot with. The Telyt seemed fine with minor issues; it was returned detailing a significant amount of work, and shooting over the past several days suggests that it deserves it reputation as the best 135 every by any manufacturer.

    So there you have it, the good and the bad of Leica. Expect a 4 month turn around on repairs and maintenance, at least until they get the M sensor replacements and S autofocus issues sorted. The good part is that for me the Monochrom and M lenses are without peer in their niche. Bottom line: if you're relying on this stuff for serious work on a daily basis you need to plan on a serious backup strategy, which makes an expensive system even more so.
    Last edited by Woody Campbell; 3rd September 2016 at 12:00.
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    Re: Leica Service

    I'm 6 weeks in on what is supposed to be a simple CLA on an M 240..
    Was under the impression it would be done by now, not tried to ping for an update yet.
    Unfortunately every step of the way has been slower than expected with poor communication.
    Lot's of missed calls, unanswered emails and voicemail.
    I even have some mails where a Leica employee emailed a 2nd employee (with me cc'ed) asking for status with no answer (for 2 weeks).

    I'm glad there's humans involved, and it's not some infinite web of outsourced vendors and ticketing systems from hell..
    I just wish there was a bit more transparency and proactive communication.
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    Re: Leica Service

    Quote Originally Posted by doug View Post
    Following up on the promised estimate "within 2 weeks", still nothing. No surprise.
    Another 2 weeks, still no estimate however Sarah Mayville @ Leica USA responding to my e-mail on September 1, asked Kevin Mamouzette (also at Leica USA) to look into this repair. No further response, no surprise.

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    Re: Leica Service

    Quote Originally Posted by doug View Post
    Another 2 weeks, still no estimate however Sarah Mayville @ Leica USA responding to my e-mail on September 1, asked Kevin Mamouzette (also at Leica USA) to look into this repair. No further response, no surprise.
    Haha, those are the exact two who I was referring to in my last post..
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    Re: Leica Service

    Wow and I thought the IRS or most other government agencies were unresponsive.

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