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Toys I played with at PMA

glenerrolrd

Workshop Member
Guy

This is an interesting discussion and could morph into a question of lens character and photographic style. I think comparing lens signatures is extremely helpful. If the 24 Lux looks like the 35 lux then they got it right. You have to assume a fast lens is designed to pull strong images out of weak light and to provide exceptional selective focus. Both known qualities of the 35 lux.

The offer the alternative of the 24/3.8 which looks like the color,landscape,travel option. Minimal distortion ,strong color and resolution and small form.

Not so clear how the 50 noctilux fits in ...except that its a standard bearer....a super fast version of the 50 1.4 asph....which I guess is reasonable positioning. But...it will be quite different than the original Noctilux signature . Personally I prefer the ability to dial in the level of sharpness...like the 50 pre asph . But thats what makes the system so great ..you have real alternatives.
 

glenerrolrd

Workshop Member
Guy/Terry

The images are helpful thank you. What does "well behaved" mean? If your purpose in shooting at F1.0 is to create a selective focus by rendering the OF into a smooth palate ...then the new Noctilux doesn t work. This is similar to the 50 1.4 asph ..the lens performs at such a high level that the OF areas often appear to contain significant information. They just look like slightly OF areas .

The model shot is a good example ..the gold background has well defined edges with strong contrast.... distracting ? The old Noctilux would render those edges much softer. The shots from a longer distance require a little inspection to find the focus point....which means a lot more of the image is almost sharp . You can of course deal with this in post processing .

I realize that the event floor really sucks for lens testing ..what could look good under those lights? What I had hoped for in the new Noctilux was a rendering like the 28 summicron or the 90 APO verse the newer optimizations like the 50 1.4 asph.

I fully understand that using different priorities one might prefer the new look to the mushy look of the original noctilux ....but my priority would be to exploit the selective focus character of the lens......otherwise i would just pick one of the 50 1.4 s .

I am putting my $$$$ on the 21 1.4 which may be the ultimate street shooting lens. Thanks for sharing the images they are very useful.

Roger
 

Terry

New member
"well behaved" to me stems from what I consider some weird bokeh that I've seen on the old nocti where the background might have been more busy or not quite far enough away and didn't go to smooth like you are stating. I use the 50 pre-lux and like it. Trying out the Nocti was a bit of a lark for me as I can't see owning a $10,000 lens for the stop beyond my $1600 50 lux that I now use. My fun was how easy it was to get focus with it on the G1.
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
Guy

This is an interesting discussion and could morph into a question of lens character and photographic style. I think comparing lens signatures is extremely helpful. If the 24 Lux looks like the 35 lux then they got it right. You have to assume a fast lens is designed to pull strong images out of weak light and to provide exceptional selective focus. Both known qualities of the 35 lux.

The offer the alternative of the 24/3.8 which looks like the color,landscape,travel option. Minimal distortion ,strong color and resolution and small form.

Not so clear how the 50 noctilux fits in ...except that its a standard bearer....a super fast version of the 50 1.4 asph....which I guess is reasonable positioning. But...it will be quite different than the original Noctilux signature . Personally I prefer the ability to dial in the level of sharpness...like the 50 pre asph . But thats what makes the system so great ..you have real alternatives.

Roger this is what the 24 looked to me very luxy. LOL You know what i mean. It has a nice separation of smoothness that is a Lux. The 50 Nocti is nice and as Terry explained well behaved but frankly I like the 50 pre asph better and save a few grand in my pocket. LOL

Keep that one under your hat. I would rather given the money factor put the cost savings to the 21mm or 24 1.4 than a Nocti. Given I like the look of the 50 pre-asph that much. I know you well enough that you would think the same as me on this one. Maybe you can get one from David to test out for a couple hours on the 24 . I don't think it is the 24mm elmarit which is so sharp even that it is too clinical and reason I sold mine. I liked the 21 elmarit and 28 cron for there smoothness
 

glenerrolrd

Workshop Member
The pattern in Leica s lens development is to always go for the highest possible MTF readings. The newer the lens the better the resolution and micro contrast. Performance wide open has long been a priority and Leica glass always excels there. Bokeh is always pretty smooth but the newer asph lenses maybe too good to create the soft rendering of out of focus areas.

You see this in some of the discussions on post processing ...such as using negative clarity in Lightroom.

The 24 asph,50 1.4 asph,35 asph and the 75/2 all have best in class specifications but render in a more clinical or harsh way. They are stellar optics and if your image requires exception rendering of detail ....they are highly recommended. But the weakness is that they make everything look sharp ...so your better have your image well thought out.

The 35 lux asph is almost in that class but maybe just a little weaker....maybe its the fall off using a wide angle wide open.....

The 21 2.8/28/2.0 and the 90 apo are perfect IMHO . and the 35 preasph and 50 1.4 preasph are close .

The 21 and 24 1.4 s look perfect for street .....similar to the 35 1.4 wide open.

All the M glass is so good on the wide angles its really a question of desired FOV and necessary speed . On the 5o s though its more of a question of lens character. Which is why preferences play an important part in defining "best".
 

Lloyd

Active member
The pattern in Leica s lens development is to always go for the highest possible MTF readings. The newer the lens the better the resolution and micro contrast. Performance wide open has long been a priority and Leica glass always excels there. Bokeh is always pretty smooth but the newer asph lenses maybe too good to create the soft rendering of out of focus areas.

You see this in some of the discussions on post processing ...such as using negative clarity in Lightroom.

The 24 asph,50 1.4 asph,35 asph and the 75/2 all have best in class specifications but render in a more clinical or harsh way. They are stellar optics and if your image requires exception rendering of detail ....they are highly recommended. But the weakness is that they make everything look sharp ...so your better have your image well thought out.

The 35 lux asph is almost in that class but maybe just a little weaker....maybe its the fall off using a wide angle wide open.....

The 21 2.8/28/2.0 and the 90 apo are perfect IMHO . and the 35 preasph and 50 1.4 preasph are close .

The 21 and 24 1.4 s look perfect for street .....similar to the 35 1.4 wide open.

All the M glass is so good on the wide angles its really a question of desired FOV and necessary speed . On the 5o s though its more of a question of lens character. Which is why preferences play an important part in defining "best".
Well said... I agree completely. :thumbs: Can I get an amen!?!
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
The bottom line at the end of my cycle with the M8 i went for lens character. Frankly that always won the day for me. Reason I loved the 28 cron and 50 pre asph.
 

Mike Hatam

Senior Subscriber Member
I agree Guy. The 28 cron and 50 lux pre apsh are the last two lenses I will ever sell. They both create such beautiful images and are fantastic for people / street shooting.
 

dfarkas

Workshop Member
The pattern in Leica s lens development is to always go for the highest possible MTF readings. The newer the lens the better the resolution and micro contrast. Performance wide open has long been a priority and Leica glass always excels there. Bokeh is always pretty smooth but the newer asph lenses maybe too good to create the soft rendering of out of focus areas.

You see this in some of the discussions on post processing ...such as using negative clarity in Lightroom.

The 24 asph,50 1.4 asph,35 asph and the 75/2 all have best in class specifications but render in a more clinical or harsh way. They are stellar optics and if your image requires exception rendering of detail ....they are highly recommended. But the weakness is that they make everything look sharp ...so your better have your image well thought out.

The 35 lux asph is almost in that class but maybe just a little weaker....maybe its the fall off using a wide angle wide open.....

The 21 2.8/28/2.0 and the 90 apo are perfect IMHO . and the 35 preasph and 50 1.4 preasph are close .

The 21 and 24 1.4 s look perfect for street .....similar to the 35 1.4 wide open.

All the M glass is so good on the wide angles its really a question of desired FOV and necessary speed . On the 5o s though its more of a question of lens character. Which is why preferences play an important part in defining "best".
Sorry I'm late to this party. Somehow totally missed Terry's thread. Nice work, BTW.

I can't wholehearted agree with you on this one, Roger. I think the 75 Cron and 50 ASPH actually have really exceptional rendering and great separation, especially the 75. Wide open, points of focus are sharp as a needle, yet the OOF areas are creamy (but not dreamy). The full disclosure on this one is that I am not a huge fan of lenses like the old Noct or the 50 pre-ASPH. I love sharp, and I love balanced. I don't really prefer glowing soft images, even of people. I'd rather start with the sharpest, most detailed rendering I can get and work from there. And, I don't want to stop down to f/2.8 to get that sharpness. I want it wide-open. This is where lenses like the 50 ASPH, 75 APO, and the new 21 and 24 Luxes come into play for me. I haven't gotten hold of a production-level new Noct yet, so I don't feel qualified to speak to its merits just yet.

The 24 is a dream lens. All the best qualities of the old and and the new. As sister lenses, the 21 should be a spitting image of the 24, just a hair wider FOV and more DOF.

David
 

Terry

New member
Now, now, Terry. :cry: That wasn't even my M8! In my defense, I was trying out Tim Isaac's Thumbs Up CSEP-4 with twin cold shoes, on his M8. :angel:

My M8.2 was floating around somewhere in the room with a 24 Lux on it. ;)

David
It was irresistable!!! I didn't name names! :angel:
 
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