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R10 to be upgradeable?

S

spylaw4

Guest
The M8 news and subsequent furore (TGINAO :salute:) must surely bode well for the R10 when it arrives. IMHO how could Leica not take the same revolutionary(?) approach?
 

LJL

New member
This is interesting for sure. Speculating a bit....it could allow the R10 to become what was originally hoped for with the DMR to some degree.....change out the sensor and electronics at some point to keep it somewhat cutting edge. This sort of concept could also impact some of the body design for "plan ahead" things that are on the horizon, but not yet being brought to market yet.

Sorry for getting ahead of myself here, but the present process of swapping my big Canon's out every couple of years is really not all that appealing. As the body/battery and other things change "just enough" it impacts all sort of accessories ("L" brackets, flash brackets, etc.) that are geared to one specific body. Those costs must figure into the equations, even if one is able to recover some cost from sale. Truly new design and concept is fine, but the SLR/DSLR body design is pretty set, and has been for many years. Now, the most of the really important things are the sensor and electronics inside....assuming no change to lens mount ;-)

LJ
 

doug

Well-known member
...the SLR/DSLR body design is pretty set, and has been for many years...LJ
The rumor on the Leica users forum is that the R10 will represent a paradigm shift in SLR cameras, so designs might not be as set as they seem.
 

LJL

New member
The rumor on the Leica users forum is that the R10 will represent a paradigm shift in SLR cameras, so designs might not be as set as they seem.
Fair enough, Doug. I was thinking more about overall form factor. There have been some attempts to alter the squarish box with the viewfinder somewhere on top, and generally held with two hands, plus having a hole to mount the lens on the front, but most have not been all that successful. If it remains a true single lens reflex design, there does not seem to be a whole lot of room to move things around all that much. A paradigm shift would be interesting to see. I have not followed the LUF lately on the R10 ideas, so not sure what folks are talking about.

In the end, it is still going to be some kind of box with a hole for the lens to mount, some sort of mirror box and viewfinder if remaining a reflex design, a sensor mounted at what was the film plane position, and the rest of the space taken up with battery, electronics and mechanical stuff. Options to break out of the reflex design could change things up a bit, I am sure. What sorts of things are folks thinking about that moves markedly away from these sorts of physical constraints?

LJ
 

cmb_

Subscriber & Workshop Member
In the end, it is still going to be some kind of box with a hole for the lens to mount, some sort of mirror box and viewfinder . . . .
The idea of an R10 with an upgrade path is intriguing but the important thing is to get the basic form of the box really nice as a start (comfort, ergonomic, simple). Swapping out parts as an upgrade over the years may be of great benefit for customer satisfaction. I am looking forward to photokina!
 

dhsimmonds

New member
The paradigm shift that some people expect is a move away from either 3x2 or even 4x3 to something like a 4x4 ratio sensor. You wouldn't need all those alternative shutter releases as on the DMR for starters (but aren't they darned useful!)

The next shift for a pure Leica would be to auto-focus with the ability to use retro R lenses for focus confirmation. All plus, plus features.
 

Lars

Active member
What do the latest rumors say WRT sensor size? Any chance for an oversized sensor?
 

LJL

New member
The paradigm shift that some people expect is a move away from either 3x2 or even 4x3 to something like a 4x4 ratio sensor. You wouldn't need all those alternative shutter releases as on the DMR for starters (but aren't they darned useful!)

The next shift for a pure Leica would be to auto-focus with the ability to use retro R lenses for focus confirmation. All plus, plus features.
O.K., and it might be semantics, but a sensor format/size change to me is not a paradigm shift like film to digital was. I was thinking about what major approach would be different from the SLR build concept that now exists. The introduction of 2.0x, 1.6x, 1.5x, 1.3x and any other sizes are not changing the "rules" and concepts about the camera, only the format for collecting the light.

The AF idea is also not really a paradigm shift, but it may be in the Leica world to some degree ;) I think that is now almost a requirement for true professional level multi-use today. It may not be used by everybody, but to create a pro-level camera that PJs, sports, and other photogs would buy and use, it will be necessary, I think. Just my thinking here.

So, a "non-conventional" sized sensor is not such a far out idea. May be tricky to build into a body, especially if going toward that 16:9 concept that we see in some digicams.

LJ
 

doug

Well-known member
What sorts of things are folks thinking about that moves markedly away from these sorts of physical constraints?
My fantasy is mirror box options so that I don't have to accept AF in order to use a full-frame digital Leica. An AF mirror box for those who want it, an SL mirror box for those who prefer this viewfinder. User swappable.

A modular camera:

mirror box/lens mount/viewfinder
shutter
sensor back/electronics
power source/card slot

all upgradeable or swappable by the user

What do the latest rumors say WRT sensor size? Any chance for an oversized sensor?
Yup. Leica has hinted at this.
 

PeterA

Well-known member
what? 90% of the cost of a camera is in the bought in chip - the notion 'upgradeable' is a marketing ploy to satisfy those who get attached to a particular ..umm what ??..aluminuim plastic covered body? which costs nothing in relative terms?? Personally i would rather see a camera whose file quality is outstanding with higher resolution than the M8ate or DMR. I would also love to see auto focus introduced as well as focus conformation for my existing lenses. A decent battery would come after that and then a large LCD hopefully o same quality as on DMR/M8ate.

The chip should be large enough to be able to use the R wides which are outstanding without heavy vignetting . As for 'paradigm shift' it is a lay person's overused meaningless statement. Leica invented the 35mm film size and I like it and they should stick with it. if I want bigger I shoot larger format. If the resolution is high enough you can crop to whatever aspect ration suits you.
 

doug

Well-known member
what? 90% of the cost of a camera is in the bought in chip - the notion 'upgradeable' is a marketing ploy to satisfy those who get attached to a particular ..umm what ??..aluminuim plastic covered body?
It's the viewfinder I get attached to (or would like to upgrade). I'd be as happy as a clam in the mud if I could swap an SL-type viewfinder into the R8 or put the DMR back on the SL. Others might be as attached to a particular body's ergonomic design as I am to the viewfinder. IMHO a highly modularized camera could satisfy a lot more users than the take-it-or-leave-it single unit designs we now have available.

neglecting any future upgrade path, here's how a hypothetical modular camera could be configured:

viewfinder options: AF, SL, or R8/9
backs: high frame rate, high ISO, high resolution, or high bit depth
card slot: SD, CF, or dual
battery: high capacity, or light weight
shutter: HSS, or low noise

I'd love to be able to configure the camera my way.
 

PeterA

Well-known member
I am happy with the R9 viewfinder Doug - if they can make it even better in a full frame - I'd be happier - why should this be an option though - I would imagine having the brightest and contrastiest viewfinder in the market would be a great point of differentiation..but with a mirror it all gets down to crop factor and chip size doesnt it?...nothing beats my H1 viewfinder for brightness and ease of use for example...
 

fotografz

Well-known member
The paradigm shift that some people expect is a move away from either 3x2 or even 4x3 to something like a 4x4 ratio sensor. You wouldn't need all those alternative shutter releases as on the DMR for starters (but aren't they darned useful!)

The next shift for a pure Leica would be to auto-focus with the ability to use retro R lenses for focus confirmation. All plus, plus features.
What would really be a "shift" would be a Leica R AF body .... not lenses!!! A streamlined, modern version of the Contax AX using today's technology to accomplish it in less space. Then all the existing lenses would be "upgraded" to
AF while retaining their optional Manual focus characteristics at the will of the user.
 

Jack

Sr. Administrator
Staff member
Well they were not saying anything about the R in our meeting at PMA other than wait until Photokina.

However given their M8 stance, it stands to reason that whatever the newest R is, it will be another fully upgradable platform as technology advances.
 

cmb_

Subscriber & Workshop Member
Let's just hope it doesn't need an immediate update (ala M8 recall) :ROTFL:
 
A

Angora

Guest
My fantasy is mirror box options so that I don't have to accept AF in order to use a full-frame digital Leica. An AF mirror box for those who want it, an SL mirror box for those who prefer this viewfinder. User swappable.

A modular camera:

mirror box/lens mount/viewfinder
shutter
sensor back/electronics
power source/card slot

all upgradeable or swappable by the user
Yes Doug, this modular concept was also discussed on the LUF; one risk would be an offer of components which would be too broad, e.g. the consumer could get lost while trying to set its R10 à la carte.
 
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