The end of the line for the R

[paulmoore]

No real R10 DSLR? Disappointing, for sure. If true, I guess this really is the end of the line and Leica has made one heck of a stupid decision. Glad I bought the R8 and a few R lenses for their own sake, although it would have been nice to put them on a R series DSLR someday.

Gary
Alaska

I think if you wait a year or so when Leica has a chance to put out there their legacy R glass solution, you will find that it is a good one for the future.
yes look for a dmr, I am sure they will continue to be a good deal if in good shape for the next couple of years.. it provides really good files if you don't need to go too big.

 

[glenerrolrd]

This is beyond disappointing and I guess I should have expected something like this from Leica. The only buisness model that is accepted in Solms must include preservation of German manufacturing jobs. If you start with that goal ..the decisions Leica has made and is making today follows. Products made elsewhere are fine if they generate revenue that supports the new factory in Wetzler.

You can see this theme in the S2. Business partnerships are utilized to maintain world class standards ( the chip,microprocessor and software) but not to manage costs. Every body/ lens to be made in Germany? The totally incompetent supply chain of German component manufacturers will be brought in house . And this will translate into a "value proposition" for whom? Make a list of what s relevant to a working pro(and by that I mean someone that could actually make money from and thereby benefit from the capabilities of the S2).

The S2 will sell to some financially capable buyers who can ignore the value proposition and just want one. Not unlike buying a Porsche...of course it makes no sense..but its what I want so damn the cost and the abuse I have to take. Nothing like having a track proven car that will do zero to 60 in less than 5 seconds.

Unfortunately we wanted a body that took our much loved R lenses. A new R that would be FF,have better high ISO and 15-20MP and auto focus lenses. Of course you can t make the camera in Wetzler unless you start with major components made at lower costs. Even better ..don t make it at all ..just have it made to tighter tolerances than Canon or Nikon.

No one suspected that the breakthrough idea would be an "adequate" EVF DSLR made by Panasonic. Something closer to the Sony A900 is what most wanted.

Leica should just own up and kill the whole idea of a Leica branded EVF DSLR....this isn t going to fly.

 

[marknorton]

I don't have any R glass but I can quite understand how people who do feel about this announcement by thinking what an M9 substitute from Panasonic would be like. Live View/EVF only, gratuitous complexity, a user interface from hell, no thanks.

Don't get me wrong, I have a G1, like it for the opportunity to use it with M glass but there is so much stuff in there I don't want or need - starting with the puny built-in flash through to the scene modes - that it can never be a serious camera for me. Sure, my big Nikons have options aplenty but they don't get in the way like they do on the Panasonic. The S(-tupid) mode on the M8.2 is, for me, the start of a slippery slope in any case.

How is this new camera going to be anyway? Restricting its use to those with R glass is hardly going to work so there would have to be a new range of AF lenses, presumably made by Panasonic with Leica IP. Overall, this just sounds too much like a re-run of the Digilux-3 debacle. An unloved clunker, a commercial disaster. Remember the Panasonic Lens Road Map which lead nowhere?

I can more than understand how disappointed R users must be by this announcement and take no comfort at all that I am M only because the same could all too easily happen to us.

 

[johnastovall]

I just don't understand why Leica can not release this sort of information in a professional manner. They should have had hand out and a webpage ready to go up the minute the meeting was over. I go and check Leica U.S.A.'s web "News" and learn Leica has opened a store in Moscow.

 

[fotografz]

Sad news indeed. But not unexpected.

The state of DSLRs has advanced so rapidly, and there are so many choices now available, that it does seem a daunting task to undertake.

While the S2 is all well and good, I do wish they would concentrate on improving the performance of the M8 & M8-2 while looking to eventually deliver a FF M9. Just improve the ISO performance some and I'd be a happy camper for awhile.

It seems Leica cannot walk and chew gum at the same time.

 

[ptomsu]

After all that mess they are in meanwhile, I have my doubts about the S2.

I am getting to feel this system and especially the camera will be:

1) outdated then it comes to market
2) too expensive (somewhere €20.000.- were mentioned for body and lens
3) who will trust Leica and their cryptic product strategy and NON willingness for somehow open communication - this degrades all Leicas to pure luxury articles, far away from anything useful for daily business

 

[charlesphoto]

Leica probably looked at their (lack of) sale of new R glass over the last few years and came to the conclusion that releasing an R10 would prove to be nice for a handful of dyed in the wool R users who already own glass, and maybe a few new users who would get their glass on the used market, but probably wouldn't do much for the sale of new lenses due to the astronomical price they would have to be compared to the already established competition.

I agree with fotograz - they really should have just stuck to the M and compact line (where's the DP1/2 killer?). The S2 could possibly sink them for good and that would be sad.

 

[dhsimmonds]

Anyone know of a good deal on a DMR?

Gary

I am so pleased that I sold my R9/DMR back in January when the writing was already on the wall in my view. (Reports of spares and service difficulty for the DMR)

My Sony A900 with Zeiss and some Sony (read Minolta) lenses are a formidable combination. Although I am disappointed that there will not be an R10, in reality it would have to have been been very, very special to tempt me away from my Sony FF DSLR

 

[ptomsu]

I am so pleased that I sold my R9/DMR back in January when the writing was already on the wall in my view. (Reports of spares and service difficulty for the DMR)

My Sony A900 with Zeiss and some Sony (read Minolta) lenses are a formidable combination. Although I am disappointed that there will not be an R10, in reality it would have to have been been very, very special to tempt me away from my Sony FF DSLR

Dave,

exactly as I see it. For FF 35mm THE SYSTEM is most probably Sony, if you are looking for highest IQ.

If you want something better, the only way which makes sense is to go with a MFDB.

An R system would not have any chance between these fronts :thumbup:

 

[fotografz]

Leica probably looked at their (lack of) sale of new R glass over the last few years and came to the conclusion that releasing an R10 would prove to be nice for a handful of dyed in the wool R users who already own glass, and maybe a few new users who would get their glass on the used market, but probably wouldn't do much for the sale of new lenses due to the astronomical price they would have to be compared to the already established competition.

I agree with fotograz - they really should have just stuck to the M and compact line (where's the DP1/2 killer?). The S2 could possibly sink them for good and that would be sad.

Personally, I don't care if Leica were in the compact business or not. I feel like they compromised their positioning in the marketplace with all those overprice re-badged cameras. Perhaps they made money on them, but at what cost?:wtf:

It is a shame that outlets for their true genius for optics are becoming more and more limited. I hope the S2 is a roaring success for them ... a place for that genius to shine.

While I am a long time fan of Zeiss optics, in general Leica has been the leader, with Zeiss an also ran.

The R 21/2.8, 50/1.4, 90AA, 180/2.8APO, 280/2.8APO and unique 35/1.4 & 80/1.4 in AF versions on a FF 35mm digital R10 that continued the IQ lead of the DMR would have been my preference over most anything. :thumbs:

Coulda, woulda, shoulda. :thumbdown:

So, the A900 became the successor to my much loved but impractical DMR and Contax N digital. My passion camera system compared to my highly capable and sensibly practical workhorse Nikons that make the money to indulge in flights photographic fancy

 

[cmb_]

The R 21/2.8, 50/1.4, 90AA, 180/2.8APO, 280/2.8APO and unique 35/1.4 & 80/1.4 in AF versions on a FF 35mm digital R10 that continued the IQ lead of the DMR would have been my preference over most anything. :thumbs:

Yes, don't they realize how good the R glass is on the DMR and what stellar images it produces?!?! Admittedly, it performs best in good light and doesn't have the feature set to be as versatile as the leading DSLR's but they really had something special with the DMR and to not follow up on that seems a shame. Oh well, I can understand - they'll have their hands full with the S2 and the M8.3/M9 and barely enough resources for them so no R10 it is. :thumbdown:

Marc - don't forget the 19mm, 28mm, and the two macros!
AND I was really hoping for a 135/2.0 APO to go along with the R10, wouldn't that have been sweet.

 

[Jorgen Udvang]

At last they've seen the writing on the wall. Apart from the M (ans possibly the S2, we'll see), there's no reason why Leica should make camera bodies. Although EVFs aren't up to standards yet, they will be in the future, and then, a camera will be an electronic device. Panasonic knows a lot more about manufacturing electronic devices than Leica will ever learn.

A full frame Panasonic camera with EVF and Leica AF lenses sounds like a brilliant idea. It will sell, maybe not to us old guys, but to the likes of my son, who would love to have a red dot that matches his blue and white one.

Yeah, yeah... I prefer optical viewfinders too, but look at the new Olympus. It doesn't even have an electronic one. There will hopefully always be other cameras to choose from for stubborn, quality conscious old men and women, and when there isn't, I'm going back to film :lecture:

 

[bensonga]

....when there isn't, I'm going back to film :lecture:

....and manual focus lenses. :thumbs:

I know that for alot of folks, autofocus lenses are an absolute must have, but for my slow methodical style and subjects I really prefer manual focus lenses. The Leica R lenses are a real joy to use in that regard. Leica MF R lenses on a digital Leica R10 would have been perfect for my needs/desires, but I guess the R8 and a scanner will work fine too.

Gary
Alaska

 

[jaapv]

....and manual focus lenses. :thumbs:

I know that for alot of folks, autofocus lenses are an absolute must have, but for my slow methodical style and subjects I really prefer manual focus lenses. The Leica R lenses are a real joy to use in that regard. Leica MF R lenses on a digital Leica R10 would have been perfect for my needs/desires, but I guess the R8 and a scanner will work fine too.

Gary
Alaska

Slow subjects? There are a number of posters here that would disagree Up to and including flying hummingbirds...
Doug, Lawrence, in a more modest way me....
http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/showthread.php?t=766&page=13

 

[fotografz]

Yes, don't they realize how good the R glass is on the DMR and what stellar images it produces?!?! Admittedly, it performs best in good light and doesn't have the feature set to be as versatile as the leading DSLR's but they really had something special with the DMR and to not follow up on that seems a shame. Oh well, I can understand - they'll have their hands full with the S2 and the M8.3/M9 and barely enough resources for them so no R10 it is. :thumbdown:

Marc - don't forget the 19mm, 28mm, and the two macros!
AND I was really hoping for a 135/2.0 APO to go along with the R10, wouldn't that have been sweet.

Yes, yes, I actually meant the 19 not 21 ... and how could I have forgotten the best 35mm format 100 macro ever made by anyone? :wtf:

 

[gero]

can the R lenses fit the sony through an adapter? I am thinking of a ff digital alternative to the Canons.

 

[Steen]

No adapter solutions as far as I know.
But with Leitax you can change the R lens mount to fit the Sony Alpha mount.
Stop down metering only though, and how compelling is that ?
http://www.leitax.com/Leica-lens-for-Sony-cameras.html

Sigh, I had high hopes for an R mount DSLR with a big and bright optical view finder, optimized for manual focus. So many manufacturers could easily build it. They already have, only they are not R mount.

 

[mwalker]

The only rationale I can think of about this decision is that Leica was concerned an R product could cannibalize the sales of the new S system. In my opinion they should have done a new R system first then the S…but what do I know…..

 

[bensonga]

Slow subjects? There are a number of posters here that would disagree Up to and including flying hummingbirds...
Doug, Lawrence, in a more modest way me....
http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/showthread.php?t=766&page=13

Yes, I've marveled at those hummingbird photos etc taken with manual focus lenses.....a real testament to the skills of the photographers!! I'm afraid that I am not equally skilled (hence my preference for stationary subjects), but I nonetheless enjoy the simple act of bringing a lens into focus the old fashioned way. :thumbs:

When I made that comment, I had in mind Marc's comments about his experience with shooting weddings.

Gary
Alaska

 

[Stuart Richardson]

There are more than one of us Rollei users that are concerned about the future with franke-heidecke products and a little incentive would go a long way.

Amen to that.