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Buying a mint M8 - wise?

Henry Goh

Member
I have my very lightly used M6 and 3 lenses. I have not paid much attention to digital Leicas. I'm itching to try a used M8. My question is what should I expect from it? I hear there are IR issues and I need IR/UV cut filters on my lenses. I had this problem with D2H so am not too encouraged. I'm told I need to spend money getting my pre-digital lenses coded for EXIF to work. What else should I be aware of?

Finally, my concern is whether it is worth the exercise?

I still have my Canons, P30+, D2X etc and want a smallish camera to use my M lenses with. Is it really wise?

Thanks for any words of advise.
 

stevem8

New member
The M8 is the best digital camera I have ever had the privilege to own. Not for its AF, not for its ISO 6400, not for its matrix metering or even its 8FPS. It has none of that but the one thing it does have is amazing IQ that comes somewhat close to a MF "look" with the right lenses.

I wouldn't trade my M8 for three D3x bodies. It keeps me going and I really never get tired of it. It has stopped my camera GAS as I want nothing else.

Its size, build, ergonomics and manual nature are all features I love. Be careful buying used though as some M8's have been used, abused and many are out of alignment. if you buy used, make sure it is from a reputable source.

Also, yes you will need IR filters for your lenses if you want to take advantage of the great M8 color. Also, you will only need to code the lenses if they are 35mm or wider. You can also buy an "M-Coder" kit and do a DYI job with marker.

I love my M8.2!
 

Henry Goh

Member
Hi Steve,

How are you? You were among one of the earliest D2H owners weren't you? Is the IR leak as bad with skin tones? How much better is the 8.2 over M8? I'm really a noob with digital leicas.
 

stevem8

New member
Hey Henry! Yes I had a D2h and D2hs and loved them but really the D2hs was the one I really adored. With the M8, all you need are the one time IR filters for each lens. Leica gives two free with a new M8, or you can buy them at any Leica dealer such as B&H, etc.

Without the filter any black fabrics wil be magenta, and gree foilage will be a bit off looking color wise. Skin tones are fine. In my 90 cron review at my site I shot all of the images there without an IR filter. It is only an issue with black fabrics and green foliage.

I have IR filters for all of my lenses as I feel they are absolutely required.

The 8.2 differences are the new shutter, LCD glass, vulanite covering vs the old sharkskin type and new, more accurate framelines. the M8.2 is quieter than the M8 but both use the same sensor and electronics so the IQ is the same.
 
M

marknorton

Guest
I don't agree it's only black fabrics and green foliage which cause the IR problem.

Anything which emits IR - invisible to the naked eye - is now going to be visible to the M8 without an IR filter; further, that IR image plane comes to a focus at a fractionally different point to the visible light image and reduces IQ by applying a haze to the image.

As for skin tones, depends on the subject, but I've seen some pretty vile skin tones without IR filters.

Bottom line is: add a filter onto the front of the lens no matter what the focal length is, take if off if shooting at night with light sources in the frame (due to stray reflections) and code the lens if it's 35mm or wider.
 

fotografz

Well-known member
I have my very lightly used M6 and 3 lenses. I have not paid much attention to digital Leicas. I'm itching to try a used M8. My question is what should I expect from it? I hear there are IR issues and I need IR/UV cut filters on my lenses. I had this problem with D2H so am not too encouraged. I'm told I need to spend money getting my pre-digital lenses coded for EXIF to work. What else should I be aware of?

Finally, my concern is whether it is worth the exercise?

I still have my Canons, P30+, D2X etc and want a smallish camera to use my M lenses with. Is it really wise?

Thanks for any words of advise.
Just get it and enjoy.

It fulfills the M shooting experience, and there have been so many software plug-ins developed to date (I use a bunch of Light Room user presets), or profiles if you use C1, that help mitigate the initial issues. The IQ is still excellent and holds its own against gear with far better spec's on paper.

I use a pair of the original M8s to shoot weddings along side a DSLR. Irakly Shanidze uses an original M8 almost exclusively. Take a look at his kick a$$ stuff.
 

jonoslack

Active member
Thanks again Steve.
Hi Henry
as Steve says . . .and Mark and Marc. Go for it.

But the simplest thing with respect to IR filters is to just put them on all the lenses, that way you don't need to change settings when you change lenses.

It's also worth coding all your lenses - you can either get leica to do it 'properly' or use one of the kits which are on the market.

Live is much simpler if you do this and then you can simply stop thinking about IR issues.
 

Scargos2

New member
I was A Canon Shooter with all the big L lens, small lens and also loved it, and after I tried the Leica M8. I am sold on the Leica M8, but it is not for every one. I like hand focusing and manual F stop and shutter speed. This is real photography, not let the camera do all the work.
IMHO Rick
 

Gary P

Member
Hi Henry,

Go for it!

I also had a M6 and two leica lenses. In 2003 I started flirting with digital and soon I put film in the past. I loved digital imaging. My biggest regret was the loss of my Leica system.

I knew that someday Leica would come out with a digital M. They did and I was euphoric, unfortunately when they did I had just purchased a canon 5D, so my pocketbook prevented a purchase.

Finally this last April I bought Jack Flesher's M8 and it had the shutter and frame line upgrade. It is practically an M8.2.

My thoughts, it took a little playing around to get comfortable because I had become rusty. This camera requires more from the man, the camera doesn't do it for you it's manual. It doesn't take long. I feel that I'm more involved in the experience. I don't zoom, I move. It requires some fore thought for the composition and the exposure. I'm embarrassed to say, but I was relying so much on the camera's automation that I wasn't always aware of the exposure settings, I just let the camera do it. I felt like some of my photographer skills had atrophied. Not anymore, I'm back in the loop.

The image quality is outstanding given the right basic photographic technique.

As with Nike's motto Just Do It! You won't regret it.

Gary P
 

Henry Goh

Member
Thanks Gary.

In my photographic life, I have been in and out of Leica 3 times already. Each time I sold off everything only to buy back half a dozen years later. With my M6 however, I just left the system in my cabinet so was thinking of buying a body to use the lenses. I guess I have to go look seriously.
 

dseelig

Member
I DO not know which lenses but when I got my 75 lux 6 bit coded leica fixed the focusing on it for m8 precision so make sure you get them all done by leica or John Milch. If milch does the 6 bit coding send your lens to Don Goldberg for focus adjustment.
 

DaveB

New member
The IR issue should not discourage anyone from buying a M8. The IR sensitivity is a "feature" that allows me to take hand-held IR photos of people in motion. I miss it when I use another camera.

The image quality for anyone who owns Leica glass makes the M8 a no-brainer considering the comparatively modest price that pristine examples can be had for. The image quality is something that I didn't fully appreciate until I started printing at fairly large sizes.

Finally, the M8 is the simplest and easiest to use digital camera I've ever had.
 

etrigan63

Active member
I had an M8 for a year and recently traded it for a D700 (due to the nature of my work and my lack of cash). I deeply long to return to the fold, but I have to save up to do so. As has been said before, the M8 is real photography, where the shot is made/broken based on the skill of the photog, not the skill of the algorithm programmer.
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
I don't agree it's only black fabrics and green foliage which cause the IR problem.

Anything which emits IR - invisible to the naked eye - is now going to be visible to the M8 without an IR filter; further, that IR image plane comes to a focus at a fractionally different point to the visible light image and reduces IQ by applying a haze to the image.

As for skin tones, depends on the subject, but I've seen some pretty vile skin tones without IR filters.

Bottom line is: add a filter onto the front of the lens no matter what the focal length is, take if off if shooting at night with light sources in the frame (due to stray reflections) and code the lens if it's 35mm or wider.
Completely agree did enough testing on this for sure it effects all colors of the visible spectrum. Use IR filters always unless trying to do some IR work. I strongly suggest using Leica IR filters as well since the firmware is tuned to Leica's filters especially in the wide angles going from 28mm and wider. I could go into this whole technically reasons for this but just trust me I was a beta tester on the M8 after it came out and just use the leica filters on wider than 28mm and frankly I would use them on all your lenses. The M8 is a great little camera with excellent results but it has it's limitations and if you can deal with them than many years of joy and Henry a perfect compliment to your Phase system. They both use C1 to there fullest advantage and the profiles in C1 for the M8 are the best I have seen and the noise is much better as well. I loved the M8 but i could not afford both systems so I had to sell it for the Phase system which is my principle system but even today i would still like to have a M8.
 
S

Sixpm

Guest
Go for it, this camera can easily make beautiful A1 (36" x24") prints or larger. I've been selling prints shot with the M8 (now 8.2), only wish the write could be a little bit faster, in fact the original M8 seem a little quicker.

Lots of people is concentrating on the size of the pixels and forgotten the most important thing is the end result of the file. I still use my older 6 year old Epson RD1 (6mp) and print up to similar size prints as the M8 with the aid of Fractal Print Pro for up sizing.

The usability and quality from the M8 should last a lifetime or tile camera is no longer repairable. I still find 10mp or even a good quality 6mp (RD1 for example) is already given me better quality than film.
 

rrobinson54

New member
As a long time Leica M user, I am considering buying a used Leica M8. With the prices of used M8's going for around $2500, I am thinking about getting a used M8 to compliment my Nikon D300. After reading forums, like fredmiranda.com, about the overall disappointments with the M8 & M8.2, I am having 2nd thoughts. I have a chance to get a mint M8 (around 3K actuations) with a mint Carl Zeiss 50mm f/1.5 lens for around $3K. Is this a good buy? Can I equal or exceed the image quality of my Nikon D300 with the M8 & CZ 50mm lens? Thanks!
 

etrigan63

Active member
The M8 can produce amazing images and even Voigtlander glass can out-resolve most Nikkor lenses. The M8 has to be learned. The training wheels on it are very small. Pretty much the photographer makes or breaks the image. I am in the process of saving up to get an M8 again. If I'm lucky, I'll get an upgraded one or an M8.2.





 

fotografz

Well-known member
As a long time Leica M user, I am considering buying a used Leica M8. With the prices of used M8's going for around $2500, I am thinking about getting a used M8 to compliment my Nikon D300. After reading forums, like fredmiranda.com, about the overall disappointments with the M8 & M8.2, I am having 2nd thoughts. I have a chance to get a mint M8 (around 3K actuations) with a mint Carl Zeiss 50mm f/1.5 lens for around $3K. Is this a good buy? Can I equal or exceed the image quality of my Nikon D300 with the M8 & CZ 50mm lens? Thanks!
As a "long time M user" the M8 should be a no brainer choice to continue that experience into the digital age.

Especially if you already have M lenses ... just go for it.

The image quality is excellent ... I use a pair of original M8s at weddings along side a Sony A900 and Ziess lenses and Nikon D3X with some of the newer nano coated optics ... and the little M8 can run with those big dogs much of the time. IMO ISO 640 is the sweet spot for this camera and I rarely take it off that setting.

It's value is that it is a rangefinder, not that it can or cannot compete with an automatic, AF DSLR.

Things to check ... make sure the camera focuses accurately. Be aware that the framing isn't as accurate as with the film Ms you used, or the new M8.2. I personally couldn't justify the price difference between my original M8 and the new ones especially since the sensor and firmware are the same. The new one frames more accurately has a harder LCD cover, and is quieter at the expense of losing the 1/8000th top shutter speed ... all of which doesn't make the IQ any better than the original M8.
 

Rolo

Member
I bought a new one 3 weeks ago for 2/3 of the retail price here in the UK and am having a whale of a time with it. These pics here are from outings in the last two weeks. Great fun for me.

I've been reluctant to buy a used on and can't see the extra money for an M8.2 turning into better pictures for me. Having said that, I'd welcome the new features as I believe they're all enhancements, it's just the cost.

I bought it in full knowledge that the next version could be announced in a matter of a few weeks (as they've stopped building M8.2's), or 12 months, however I think the M8 and the next version will work well together. If it's FF, then it'll be dedicated to my 24mm. :)
 
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