The GetDPI Photography Forum

Great to see you here. Join our insightful photographic forum today and start tapping into a huge wealth of photographic knowledge. Completing our simple registration process will allow you to gain access to exclusive content, add your own topics and posts, share your work and connect with other members through your own private inbox! And don’t forget to say hi!

Briese /Broncolor /Profoto

robertwright

New member
maybe I can dissuade you all...having worked with b2pro for several years I have seen the best and worst of the equipment so let me focus on the negative since we all know the positive..

setup in not simple, the small umbrellas pop together relatively easily but the 220 and 330cm require some serious force to expand and unlike the broncolor there is no crank setup. Find a wall and push basically. Collapsing is even harder.

If you happen to put a little too much weight on the ribs of one of these puppies be prepared for breakage- the ribs are fragile at the connection points despite being made from carbon fibre- I've seen a few broken, (my fault sometimes) they shear off at that connection point to the collar. Big bucks replacing them.

Once you do get thing setup we haven't even started down the path of needing a gennie for the 2.5k hmi, (220 volt) - household only fires the 575 and 1.2k ballasts. Go into a location with bad power and you can spend lots of time chasing blown fuses, or running stingers around looking for good outlets.

Bulbs- they all age differently and depending on age the colour balance can can vary as much as 1500k and many points of green/magenta- bring your gels. For example, setup two or three umbrellas on a neutral grey wall and the colour temp difference will positively scream out at you-half of the wall will be yellow and the other half blue.

Did I mention efficiency? Unlike strobe where you can dial power up and down with HMI it is fixed by the ballast/bulb combo- as we all know the power needs can get ridiculous fast if you are lighting a large area in depth with HMI. I am routinely using 5 or 6 ballasts between 2.5 and 575k, a total wattage of about 6k+ and getting only f8 1/60 ISO 400 on the subject. I know that sounds crazy but you light a whole room with 20ft ceilings and black objects and call me back.

Of course I love the quality, the focusing, the hard/soft feeling, but really, with a 1 stop silk on the front of a 180cm umbrella is it really any different than an octa? I don't think so.

there are good reasons to use the briese and as we all move to combination film/motion capture it will just be more to the point but 90% of your work is usually accomplished with two or three lights at most, and that light is either hard, soft, or somewhere in-between. If it is soft then photons are generic once they leave the silk. Hard and hard/soft I'll grant you that focusing and collimation make huge differences, but it hard to beat a fresnel, and you don't need briese to use a fresnel.

forgot to mention your model- their eyes...they will not like you for using briese. Very hard to look into a 100cm silver umbrella with a 1.2k bulb blazing inside. You get real tears. Strobe is so much friendlier.

still want to pony up for the briese tax?:bugeyes::bugeyes:
 

Kirk Candlish

New member
forgot to mention your model- their eyes...they will not like you for using briese. Very hard to look into a 100cm silver umbrella with a 1.2k bulb blazing inside. You get real tears. Strobe is so much friendlier.
True, but not specific to Briese.

I've shot fashion with the Profoto HMIs in their 7' and 8' umbrellas (so video could be shot simultaneously.) The models hated it and the makeup artists were kept running.
 

fotografz

Well-known member
I love when the Gods come down from Olympus and tempt us with rare fruits ;)

I've worked both sides of the street ... enjoying partial retirement in my well equipped but modest studio schlepping around like a one man band doing 5 people's job .... and as an ad agency Executive CD commanding multi-million dollar production budgets that line an LA location street with gear, prop, and generator semis (even one with a full blown kitchen in it!) ... not to mention sets populated by more folks than a small town. It's like being mayor of "Shootville" for a day :)

I've documented shoots like this with my Leica, and really need to copy the prints to share with my GetDpi buddies here ... it's an eye opener that you don't see in many glamorous "behind the scenes" videos accompanied by pulse raising, thumping music and choirs of angles in skimpy underwear :ROTFL:

Point is, Olympian gear is usually very specific, and one has to weigh the cost/use ratio against what one actually shoots and how often ... especially one man bands. Thanks to Robert for bringing all this back to earth.

Shooting for fun or modest pay differs greatly from wielding an $800K budget for a single shoot. Expert lighting grips make all this stuff look easy ... I swear, some I've worked with are mind-readers.

I've attempted to build a diverse spread of lighting solutions that allow me to express ideas over a wider spectrum of studio/location applications ... which by itself has far outstripped any camera expenses ... and I have a LOT of camera stuff.

I'd like to add only a few things now ... some fresnel strobe heads, and one big Para. Right now I'm leaning toward the new 75" Hensel TERABOX Deep Space ... that has a 40" deep Para shape ... knowing that it pales in comparison but still delivers some of that focused sharp but soft light quality I can't get with my big Octas.

HENSEL-VISIT GmbH & Co. KG: Terabox Deep Space

-Marc
 

KETCH ROSSI

New member
maybe I can dissuade you all...having worked with b2pro for several years I have seen the best and worst of the equipment so let me focus on the negative since we all know the positive..

setup in not simple, the small umbrellas pop together relatively easily but the 220 and 330cm require some serious force to expand and unlike the broncolor there is no crank setup. Find a wall and push basically. Collapsing is even harder.

If you happen to put a little too much weight on the ribs of one of these puppies be prepared for breakage- the ribs are fragile at the connection points despite being made from carbon fibre- I've seen a few broken, (my fault sometimes) they shear off at that connection point to the collar. Big bucks replacing them.

Once you do get thing setup we haven't even started down the path of needing a gennie for the 2.5k hmi, (220 volt) - household only fires the 575 and 1.2k ballasts. Go into a location with bad power and you can spend lots of time chasing blown fuses, or running stingers around looking for good outlets.

Bulbs- they all age differently and depending on age the colour balance can can vary as much as 1500k and many points of green/magenta- bring your gels. For example, setup two or three umbrellas on a neutral grey wall and the colour temp difference will positively scream out at you-half of the wall will be yellow and the other half blue.

Did I mention efficiency? Unlike strobe where you can dial power up and down with HMI it is fixed by the ballast/bulb combo- as we all know the power needs can get ridiculous fast if you are lighting a large area in depth with HMI. I am routinely using 5 or 6 ballasts between 2.5 and 575k, a total wattage of about 6k+ and getting only f8 1/60 ISO 400 on the subject. I know that sounds crazy but you light a whole room with 20ft ceilings and black objects and call me back.

Of course I love the quality, the focusing, the hard/soft feeling, but really, with a 1 stop silk on the front of a 180cm umbrella is it really any different than an octa? I don't think so.

there are good reasons to use the briese and as we all move to combination film/motion capture it will just be more to the point but 90% of your work is usually accomplished with two or three lights at most, and that light is either hard, soft, or somewhere in-between. If it is soft then photons are generic once they leave the silk. Hard and hard/soft I'll grant you that focusing and collimation make huge differences, but it hard to beat a fresnel, and you don't need briese to use a fresnel.

forgot to mention your model- their eyes...they will not like you for using briese. Very hard to look into a 100cm silver umbrella with a 1.2k bulb blazing inside. You get real tears. Strobe is so much friendlier.

still want to pony up for the briese tax?:bugeyes::bugeyes:

Well Robert, your points are good ones, yet are not simply just related to the BRIESE, when it comes to the largest Size Parabolic they all share similarities, not just BRIESE, same with Broncolor and or any other brand, just that the quality of the lighting form BRIESE is so unique, that puts it all in to perspective.

I have used them all, literally, and then some, which have never made it to market, as I have over 18 signed NDA's in the Industry for different things few of which are for Parabolic lighting, BRIESE Broncolor style.

I'm a little guy, at 5.7" yet I can push open the 220 no problem, it snaps, yes, but so does propping open the Black Out Tents, it is just a matter of knowing exactly how and were to apply pressure.

If you think Models don't like them, then try come to a Movie Set with me were we have 6 x 18K HMI's blasting down at the Talent... ITS COOKING TIME!!

But we are all professionals, and must take a little of suffering in order to get the glory... ;)

But yes, if your first BRIESE, then should be anything till the 180, and leave the 220 and 330 MONSTER, but insanely GORGEOUS for a later time, or were you always are in company, this are not to be used by a single handed Photographer, but with me even when I'm alone, I always put the girls to work... ;) And they love it!!

As far as Power requirements, well, that is of course a common sense, if you want to Drive a Ferrari you better have the money to put GAS in it, and know the consumption so you don't get cut in the middle of the Road with an empty thank... ;)

I use BIG lights, and Genny's which are Hard mounted on to a TRUCK, some times this are 16 wheelers, if any Professional buys a light, and does not look at the power requirements, then He'She is not a Pro in my book, as they need to know what they are doing far before going in buying any type of light, or always higher a DP/Gaffer to take care that for you.

Continuos Lighting is an other animal all together, its no FLASH, so one needs to be well informed on how it works and its needs.
 

PeterA

Well-known member
Well thanks to all the great posts - I just saw the thread has resurfaced...

Marc I have come some way since my first questions and it has ended up a very interesting journey - far from complete and a good way to go.

I will be constructing a cyclorama for the project I have in mind the cyclorama will be a cube measuring 7 meters roughly in each dimension.

The shooting space will have to be large enough to accommodate everything from a small pot plant to a 150 horsepower tractor. So I will house the shooting cube in a large shed on a farm.

The project will require the ability to shoot the equivalent of full sunlight in the area as well as light painting with LED and dedolights in pitch black.

I have decided on going continuous lighting for the project - because it is still life.

I have decided that Briese is my first choice for their focus system and I have calculated that I will need one 140 and one 330 for the bright lighting requirements of the project. Dedolights and some custom LED's I am having made up will handle the black out work.

As for power It wont be an issue for me as my sheds always have normal 220-240volt at any amp I want to set up because of my natural power set up I use to run my woodwork and metal work machinery I don't expect to have any problem.

The most important and difficult part of the job will be maintaining a very consistent light temp throughout all the shooting - which will take place over a year - I want the light to surround the subject matter and do no more than let the subject matter do the talking. Success will be if no one actually notices the lighting.

I am now currently investigating various film maker lighting gear to see if I can get away with not having to pay up for Briese.

Pete
 

KETCH ROSSI

New member
Such an interesting project by the sound of it Peter... ;)

The only absolute way to maintain control in the Kelvin over the shoot of the entire year, is to first of all, of course make sure that there is absolutely never any light coming in form outside of your chosen structure, either day or night.

Secondly you need to make sure that which ever lights chosen have their Bulbs as new, yet Broken in, as some lights require to be burned in for several days before maintaining a steady Kelvin, while others need to be first warmed up regularly before reaching their given Kelvin, once you have this done that the only thing you need to worry about are the positioning and opening of the BRIESE, as they too will give you of course different lighting, not the Kelvin, but different trow and Softness or Harshness depending on distance form subject and or if moved to different walls, what type of light spectrum will be reflected by those walls.

I'm sure you are already calculating all of this, just want to trow it in there, and best of luck to you... ;)
 
Last edited:

VICTOR BT

Member
p.chong profoto zoom is as small as it gets. the smallest parabolic is briese 44, one of the most beautiful among hard lights, but even when collapsed it is bigger than the zoom.

pete... if those are only still-life sets, u might go with dedolight in general. to control the softness and the floodness, u can use various filters/fabrics. rosco and matthews for example have lots of different materials to defuse and preserve tthe glimmer of light, or simply find any balance u like with some experimentation.

dedolights are super efficient in practice compared to their power, enough for portrait sessions, smaller interior and location sets etc, but they are somewhat limited when u want to flood light into a really big set. in bigger sets, they are great when u want to direct them into selected areas, because they have such a clean and controllable beam of light. they are also great if u want to combine multiples, but they are no substitute for a powerful light (from about 2.5k and on) when u need that. still-life is less hungry for power.

dedolight are unique hard lights. because of the lens (the whole mechanism), the hard light that falls onto subject (skin, fabric, metal or whatever) is never harsh, shadows cleanly shaped, hilights/hot-spots smooth, and surfaces are well defined yet with sublime tactility. very difficult to explain, but the way they render is amazing.

also, because of their accuracy and beam quality wherever they fall, u can use them with thinner diffusers (frosts, silks, etc), or a bit harder reflecting materials for bounce. in that case, obviously, u will loose the dedolight easiness in controlling light - no more sharp cuttings and blockings with barndoors etc. anyway, briese (or any other light) does not allow that much control either - no soft/big light that is flooded into set can be controlled without bigger flags in any case.

robert, true, when indoors, in dark surrounding and such... but then, even arrisun 12 with frosted lens can feel like "blazing" sometimes :)
 

VICTOR BT

Member
mark, absolutely true, many of the olympian equip as u call it are better left for renting :) simply because there are not manageable without a good team, even if the photographer or director knows what to do with it. some others are doable for one man band or small team. if budget allows, and one knows to make the difference between the standard stuff and the olympian alternatives, then it worth the extra effort. the "olympian stuff" have some olympian magic and finesse in many cases, not only high esteem :)

Fresnel - hensel has an adopted arri head, with 30cm fresnel lens. it is great, though big.
Bacht (Studio-Service Bacht GmbH - Herzlich Willkommen bei der Studio-Service Bacht GmbH) has three, small, medium (7kg, manageable even as one man band, with nice cine stand), and big (very similar to hensel. bacht has virtually 100% flash/model. hensel also has small spot, but it is limited and has no absolute flash/model.
also, for HMI, there's something new and really exiting - K5600 big-eye, a collapsable 60cm Fresnel, where u can put 200, 400 or 800 jocker-bugs. bulky, but still manageable without a special alpha/delta light-grip team :)
 

PeterA

Well-known member
Hi Victor,

I will be using Dedolights for their exact light projection capabilities - when background will be black. The Briese or similar is for flooded sunlight look. Each subject will be shot in two modes - bright bright sunlight with wrap around lighting on subject - and black black lighting with spot illumination - yin and yang if you like.

Pete
 

fotografz

Well-known member
mark, absolutely true, many of the olympian equip as u call it are better left for renting :) simply because there are not manageable without a good team, even if the photographer or director knows what to do with it. some others are doable for one man band or small team. if budget allows, and one knows to make the difference between the standard stuff and the olympian alternatives, then it worth the extra effort. the "olympian stuff" have some olympian magic and finesse in many cases, not only high esteem :)

Fresnel - hensel has an adopted arri head, with 30cm fresnel lens. it is great, though big.
Bacht (Studio-Service Bacht GmbH - Herzlich Willkommen bei der Studio-Service Bacht GmbH) has three, small, medium (7kg, manageable even as one man band, with nice cine stand), and big (very similar to hensel. bacht has virtually 100% flash/model. hensel also has small spot, but it is limited and has no absolute flash/model.
also, for HMI, there's something new and really exiting - K5600 big-eye, a collapsable 60cm Fresnel, where u can put 200, 400 or 800 jocker-bugs. bulky, but still manageable without a special alpha/delta light-grip team :)
Thanks Victor.

FYI, Hensel lists a number of strobe type Fresnels, Including some more demure sized ones.

HENSEL-VISIT GmbH & Co. KG: Spotlights

-Marc
 

BRISUCKS GMBH

New member
IF YOU USE BRIESE LIGHTING YOU MIGHT WANT TO SEE THIS !
AFTER YEARS OF LITAGATION B2PRO FINALY GETS JUSTICE FROM THE UNITED STATES PATENT OFFICE !

HANS WEINER BRIESE EXPOSED AS A FRAUD

Its been a long uphill battle that frankly should have never happened, but after years of litigation and patent review, the Briese patent has finally been exposed to be a FRAUD. The Briese Umbrella system patent is set to be revoked by the United States Patent Office. After careful review, the U.S.P.T.O. has issued a final office action rejecting the main claim in the Briese patent as being un patentable. Briese basically lifted content and ideas off of two previous American patents from the late 60’s and early 70’s. Hans Werner Briese has lost all credibility. B2PRO has argued all along that patent validity was the key point during trial. This long awaited final office action vindicates Brent Langton, Sergio Ortiz Gavin and B2PRO.




From the very beginning the Briese Lichttechnik company has engaged you the customer in a smear campaign against B2PRO, where they have spent many tireless nights writing defamatory letters and emails, all of which have been littered with misinformation and outright lies. On January 24, 2013 at approximately 3:15pm, Ken Robinson an agent of Briese Lichttechnik was arrested for burglarizing our New York City office. By his own admission he stole sensitive documents, intellectual property, and client contacts that later made it to the hands of Hans Werner Briese and his legal team. It is our understanding that subsequently following this theft he was working directly for Briese Lichttechnik. We Intend to set the record straight. Attached to this email you will find the letter of examination from the United States Patent Office which you are all free to read for yourselves, it is public information. This Final Office Action is in fact the final nail in the coffin for the Briese patent, and it appears as though all of the efforts by Hans Werner Briese to defame our character, and to force us into litigation, could not stop the United States Patent office from upholding justice. God Bless America.




Hans Werner Briese and the Briese Lichttechnik Gmbh. will most certainly send out another shallow letter, perhaps claiming that they will appeal this Final Office Action all the way to our Supreme Court. Rest assured that the only difference between the U.S.P.T.O. Patent Final Rejection letter and the Supreme Court is that the Supreme Court comes with Guacamole & Sour Cream. Please take some time if you wish to read the Final Office Action which is attached below. We thank you for your loyalty.

THE U.S.P.T.O ISSUED A 42 PAGE FINAL OFFICE ACTION REPORT REJECTING THE BRIESE LIGHTING SYSTEM PATENT AS '' UN-PATENTABLE '' IT IS PUBLIC RECORD . IF YOU NEED A COPY YOU CAN EMAIL ME AT [email protected] I WILL GLADLY E-MAIL YOU A LINK .

S E R G I O O R T I Z G A V I N
 

gazwas

Active member
I find it odd someone joins a forum just to post a pointless dig at another manufacturer like the above post when there is no context or reply from the other party.

One of them must have ripped off the other as Briese and the B2Pro reflectors are identical in pretty much every way even down to the terrible way in which there are opened and closed.

At least Broncolor thought about their Para's and included some good innovation when they released their version in how they are erected (especially Para 88 and 133). The big Bron Para's are not just limited to the studio as they fold down a lot smaller are a much more modern and practical take on the Briese/B2Pro 70's/80's design.
 
Just wanted to add to the discussion.

Briese, for at least a year , manufacture and market their strobe heads, adapted to Broncolor and Prophoto. Have been using Briese Cubes for several years and now, when I got several Grafit A4 second hand, I am going to buy Broncolor version of the briese heads. I have had several cheap adaptations, made of Pulso Broncolor heads, they worked, but very unstable.

I agree with the pro posters here: diffused Focus works just as a big bank or Octa, nothing can change the laws of physics. But Focus in the small range ( up to 140cm ) works very well in smaller studios with strobe, and still keep their unique character. I own a 180, and it is barely manageable. Bron Para 220 is better, if you work without a team of assistants.
 
Top