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How many lights does it take to change a photographer?
- Thread starter LJL
- Start date
For those considering the Elinchrom, I'd really recommend going for the Speed AS unit over the straight RX. Recycle speed for the RX is 5.5 secs at full power, while it is 2.8 secs for the Speed AS. Five and a half seconds feels like an eternity when you're in the groove. Battery life is also about twice as long with the Speed. I can get about 3,000 shots at mixed power levels out of the Speed. The kit for Speed also includes an extra battery, which is about $400 by itself and a great thing to have. So the cost is a wash between the two kits if you count the battery. The only trade-off is weight, with the RX coming in at 13.2 lbs and the Speed at 17.6 lbs. So, about 4 lbs more... not a deal breaker, for me at least.
I stock and sell a lot more Speed kits for the above reasons. Once my customers see the difference and try them out, 9 times out of 10 they go for the Speed AS kit.
If you are looking for portability, you just can't beat the Profoto AcuteB 600R which weighs only 10 lbs and is tiny (as far as power packs go). These are coming with free heads ($750 value) right now. Two of these will give you totally asymmetry with no extension cables and PocketWizard built-in. Really nice units.
Of course, the Profotos aren't weather sealed like the Rangers, which I have literally shot in pouring rain.
Both are excellent choices.
David
I stock and sell a lot more Speed kits for the above reasons. Once my customers see the difference and try them out, 9 times out of 10 they go for the Speed AS kit.
If you are looking for portability, you just can't beat the Profoto AcuteB 600R which weighs only 10 lbs and is tiny (as far as power packs go). These are coming with free heads ($750 value) right now. Two of these will give you totally asymmetry with no extension cables and PocketWizard built-in. Really nice units.
Of course, the Profotos aren't weather sealed like the Rangers, which I have literally shot in pouring rain.
Both are excellent choices.
David
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As far as portability for location work it's hard to beat the Hensel Porty ... probably the most rented of the bunch. It's super heavy duty but weighs in pretty heavy.
For a small package with a nice output it's probably the Broncolor Mobile A2R 1200 w/s two port asymmetrical Power Pack that weighs 20lbs ... but it's the heads that really cut down on the load ... 1600 w/s Broncolor Picolites are the size of a pop can. Pricey as are most Broncolor products.
For a small package with a nice output it's probably the Broncolor Mobile A2R 1200 w/s two port asymmetrical Power Pack that weighs 20lbs ... but it's the heads that really cut down on the load ... 1600 w/s Broncolor Picolites are the size of a pop can. Pricey as are most Broncolor products.
The Ranger RX arrived and I have been fooling around using it in conjunction with an SB800 operating as a slave.
The kit included a shoot through 33 inch umbrella with a nifty black back-baffle which prevents light from bouncing off the wall behind the light. Sort if a poor man's smallish softbox.
I am toying with the addition of a second head, which seems to be the next step.
It could be either another S head or an A head. The A gets me a flash duration somewhere around half that of the S head, and if I use it in conjugation with the S head, will get me a 75/25 power ratio. That makes sense to me if I put a softbox on the A head. BUT if I use two S heads, I get equal power distribution, and lose maybe a couple of stops in the softbox, that seems to me that I ought to use a softbox on both heads or grid down the fill to get reasonably close.
OR, I could get a 600ws monolight that would give me the option/luxury of independent control. Grids/softbox comments also apply.
Anybody with an opinion on the next best step? I am thinking that besides the light something like a Plume 140 is a given.
thanks
-bob
The kit included a shoot through 33 inch umbrella with a nifty black back-baffle which prevents light from bouncing off the wall behind the light. Sort if a poor man's smallish softbox.
I am toying with the addition of a second head, which seems to be the next step.
It could be either another S head or an A head. The A gets me a flash duration somewhere around half that of the S head, and if I use it in conjugation with the S head, will get me a 75/25 power ratio. That makes sense to me if I put a softbox on the A head. BUT if I use two S heads, I get equal power distribution, and lose maybe a couple of stops in the softbox, that seems to me that I ought to use a softbox on both heads or grid down the fill to get reasonably close.
OR, I could get a 600ws monolight that would give me the option/luxury of independent control. Grids/softbox comments also apply.
Anybody with an opinion on the next best step? I am thinking that besides the light something like a Plume 140 is a given.
thanks
-bob
Simple 2 letter answer to using your current Dyna Lites with fast aperture lenses:O.K., since I had mentioned how nice it would be for a "Lighting Forum", and Guy obliged those requesting this, I feel a bit obligated to kick this off.
The topic title is not quite tongue in cheek, but dragged you in here, so that worked :clap:
This has been a struggle for me for decades. I have gone from the luxury of working in a full studio with hot lights, strobes, and just about everything in between. I then went the "minimalist" route for a while, believing that natural light only was the true art, or at most, a weak fill flash. (This period was probably brought on more by lack of money for gear at the time, so what else is new?)
That evolved into multiple small flash units to create a fast, very portable system. (I am mostly a Canon shooter, and will admit that I still envy the Nikon lighting capabilities in this area, but just HAD to prove it could be done with Canon speedlites and other things.) The biggest issue here has been really getting softened light when you need it most.
That continued the evolution back to packs and flash heads, but portability has always been a big driver, as I need to bring the studio to the client. My present kit for this are DynaLites, and they are working out wonderfully, but sometimes even they put out more light than one wants for shooting at f1.2 and stuff.
The most recent addition to the kit has been some Westcott Spiderlites, which use daylight balanced cool fluorescent bulbs. Have to say, they are not super bright, but they do put out a very nice continuous light at low cost, low heat, and can be toted about if you need to use them that way.
So what is the answer? Not sure, but so far, all of them. This was not a kit that I really planned, but have found that it does allow me to do most jobs, and it will allow for mix and match things too, like DynaLites in big softboxes with a fluorescent in close for key or accent, and small Canon flashes for creating hot accents in backgrounds and stuff. The key is knowing the limitations of the gear and the shooter. (Still working on the latter at this point :shocked: )
Not looking to start a brand war or anything of the sort. Would love to use Brons or Elincroms or Profotos, and have in the past, but all are too heavy, too bulky, and much more expensive. Is this foolhardy on my part? Should I just bite the bullet and spring for those Profotos?
With some of the new "accessories" now on the market for use with smaller flash units, for battery power, for attaching softboxes, etc., I am not so sure that the big boy systems matter as much, except for rental needs, replacement parts in out of the way places, and maybe brand loyalty. Wonder what others think about this?
BTW, I need to dig up a report where someone took the time to shoot the various flash units at different powers, and measured their color temp variation, etc. Interesting results.....the Elinchroms and Profotos, long touted for consistent light output and color, actually underperformed the small DynaLites. (Forget the Alien Bees and White Lightnings....they are cheap, but all over the map on color temp at different outputs.)
O.K., chip in as you see fit with experiences, thoughts, plans, images, whatever. Let's get this forum rolling along also.
LJ
ND.
Just get some high quality Netural Density filters like B+W MCs.
Marc,
I actually have found an interesting set-up. The DynaLite packs are 1000w/s and have four ports to handle heads. If I place two heads into one side of the pack, rather than one on each side, it halves the output. By dialing power down, I can manage to shoot the two heads in softboxes and be able to get things to f2. Move a bit further away, and I can get more open, but then I start to lose the light wrapping a bit more. The DynaLites are a lot more powerful than one would think. They put out a lot of light, as you note. The ND filters are still on the solution list, but I hate shooting through them if I do not have to.
I have been eyeing that Hensel Porty, as well as the Bron portable. The Ranger set-up is also nice, but I would probably go Hensel or Brom myself for the portable side. The DynaLites are very compact, and they do work well off of the 1100XP battery unit, but more stuff to carry, set-up and manage. For now, I can get things to work the way I need, but I do keep looking for a more elegant solution, if there is one. Nobody mentions the Profoto 7B2 stuff. Looks quite nice and handles the same heads as the D4, making it pretty flexible....just not inexpensive.
LJ
David,
Thanks for the clarifications. I was thinking about the Pro 7 heads, which are fan cooled and can be used on both the D4 and Pro 7B2 generators. At least I think that they are compatible that way. Honestly, Profoto really does not make that part terribly clear, but it seems like the Pro 7B2 pack (their newest version) is a bit faster, and it lists being able to use the Pro 7 heads, in addition to the Pro 7b heads (I think). The Pro 7 heads are also listed a being compatible with the D4 generator.
The Acute heads are a different story.
So, I think we are in agreement. My thoughts are shifting to the Pro 7B2 pack for both portable and studio use, using Pro 7 heads. That would then allow an upgrade to the D4 generator for studio use, still taking the Pro 7 heads and being able to add Acute/D4 heads to it. Does that make sense?
LJ
LJ,
You are 100% correct. Fan cooled Pro Heads can be used on Pro-7a AC packs as well as the 7b and B2. A Pro B Head can only be used on battery packs. The D4 can take Pro Heads or Acute2 Heads. Acute2 packs cannot take Pro Heads. And... The Pro Ring and Pro Ring 2 (fan-cooled with modeling lights) work on 7a, 7b, B2, and D4. The Acute2 Ring works on Acute2, Acute B, and D4. Basically, the D4 takes all heads except B heads. So, it makes a nice addition to either Acute or Pro setups. And of course, all Profoto heads take the same modifiers.
The D4 is awesome. I use one for table top and it is the most color stable pack I've ever used. The full digital asymmetry is very convenient. It isn't the fastest recycling or the shortest duration. For that, you'd want the Pro 7a. The 7a 1200 recycles to full power in 0.8 seconds and has a minimum flash duration of 1/12,000 sec! That is why the Pro 7a is THE fashion studio rental pack the world over.
The B2 is the closest thing to a 7a on battery power. Full power recycle in 1.8 secs with a flash duration of about 1/6,000 sec. It will run a modeling light continuously and can use the Universal Power Adapter to "plug in" while in studio. Built-in PocketWizard is nice (just like the D4) and the B2 has 1/10th of a stop adjustments vs. the 7b with 1/6th stop.
You really can't go wrong with Profoto. Great electronics and amazing modifiers. Reliable and consistenly great quality of light.
David
You are 100% correct. Fan cooled Pro Heads can be used on Pro-7a AC packs as well as the 7b and B2. A Pro B Head can only be used on battery packs. The D4 can take Pro Heads or Acute2 Heads. Acute2 packs cannot take Pro Heads. And... The Pro Ring and Pro Ring 2 (fan-cooled with modeling lights) work on 7a, 7b, B2, and D4. The Acute2 Ring works on Acute2, Acute B, and D4. Basically, the D4 takes all heads except B heads. So, it makes a nice addition to either Acute or Pro setups. And of course, all Profoto heads take the same modifiers.
The D4 is awesome. I use one for table top and it is the most color stable pack I've ever used. The full digital asymmetry is very convenient. It isn't the fastest recycling or the shortest duration. For that, you'd want the Pro 7a. The 7a 1200 recycles to full power in 0.8 seconds and has a minimum flash duration of 1/12,000 sec! That is why the Pro 7a is THE fashion studio rental pack the world over.
The B2 is the closest thing to a 7a on battery power. Full power recycle in 1.8 secs with a flash duration of about 1/6,000 sec. It will run a modeling light continuously and can use the Universal Power Adapter to "plug in" while in studio. Built-in PocketWizard is nice (just like the D4) and the B2 has 1/10th of a stop adjustments vs. the 7b with 1/6th stop.
You really can't go wrong with Profoto. Great electronics and amazing modifiers. Reliable and consistenly great quality of light.
David
Marc,
I knew/know that about the Acute heads, but good to mention. My thinking was that the Acute set-ups, though very nice, are not completely portable unless you use a power generator or some other power source (like the DynaLite 1100XP thing I have now). I am looking for something that will be able to do double duty in studio and on location. The Hensel Porty and the new Bron kit are good candidates also. The Profoto offereing is talked about less, and it does cost more, but the newer 7B2 unit looks pretty attractive, and using the Pro heads with it would still work with a D4. The Profoto Acute B thing seems more limited, but it is a nice compact set-up and it does take the other modifiers, so that is good.
Still not sure what the better arrangement may be. The Pro 7B2 has a lot going for it, but is not cheap. (One could get a couple AcuteB rigs for the price of the 7B2 alone, not counting the Pro heads.) I love the compactness of the Bron and its heads, and the Hensel Porty is much the same. Good to have choices, but hate to get too many things not working with each other too much, like what you discovered with your Elinchroms when you moved to Profoto, and like I am dealing with now with my DynaLites. Just have to think about what may provide the most flexibility and utility, or keep separate sets of stuff just for specific use. Other thoughts and suggestions you may have?
LJ
I knew/know that about the Acute heads, but good to mention. My thinking was that the Acute set-ups, though very nice, are not completely portable unless you use a power generator or some other power source (like the DynaLite 1100XP thing I have now). I am looking for something that will be able to do double duty in studio and on location. The Hensel Porty and the new Bron kit are good candidates also. The Profoto offereing is talked about less, and it does cost more, but the newer 7B2 unit looks pretty attractive, and using the Pro heads with it would still work with a D4. The Profoto Acute B thing seems more limited, but it is a nice compact set-up and it does take the other modifiers, so that is good.
Still not sure what the better arrangement may be. The Pro 7B2 has a lot going for it, but is not cheap. (One could get a couple AcuteB rigs for the price of the 7B2 alone, not counting the Pro heads.) I love the compactness of the Bron and its heads, and the Hensel Porty is much the same. Good to have choices, but hate to get too many things not working with each other too much, like what you discovered with your Elinchroms when you moved to Profoto, and like I am dealing with now with my DynaLites. Just have to think about what may provide the most flexibility and utility, or keep separate sets of stuff just for specific use. Other thoughts and suggestions you may have?
LJ
FYI, the Hensel Porty is larger and heavier than the Bron A2R ... but as my photo above shows, it's battle ready : -)
Unless you're on a budget, I'd skip the Acutes. Very nice boxes and pretty durable, but they're 3 head generators where the D4s are 4 head and offer tighter digital control over the light out-put.
I'd also look closely at flash duration times. When you invest this much into lighting you have to consider all the possible uses ... so the quick recycle and short duration of the Pro7s can become quite valuable IF you do that sort of work frequently. I don't, so I rent when I need it. The D4s do it for me for 99% of the work I do.
I like the Pro 7B2 also, but would much rather use D4s in the studio or on location where there is power available. I use the 4 head outlet a lot, especially with the dual bulb D4 head with it's 2 cord plug-in. If the ProB2 is your only box, 2 heads may not cut it for you.
Thanks, Marc. You brought something back into play that I was overlooking....number of heads that you need to power. My DynaLites are 4-head packs and I have two packs, so I sort of forget about what would happen if I shifted to something like the ones being discussed, except the D4. I generally shoot with at least three heads for a lot of stuff, but have two packs or could drive everything from one, but at lower output if needed. Good point to consider.
Goes back to thinking that a couple Bron A2R or Hensel Porty rigs would be needed to cover three heads, verus maybe on D4 and some extension cords or using one of my Honda gererators ;-) Thanks for jogging the thinking again.
LJ
Goes back to thinking that a couple Bron A2R or Hensel Porty rigs would be needed to cover three heads, verus maybe on D4 and some extension cords or using one of my Honda gererators ;-) Thanks for jogging the thinking again.
LJ
jerryreed
New member
Most of my work is studio based, where I use Broncolor based on the accuracy of the color and the very excellent line up of light modifiers. I have two each TOPAS A4 and A2 one with RFS. The most recent novelty that I have bought is the Lastolite background light. This is a pop up box that is somewhat like a mattress which is lit by firing one or two bare flash tubes into the edges of the background through zippered ports provided for that purpose.
Jerry Reed
Jerry Reed
Can you post a shot of the Lasolite unit or provide a link Jerry? Sounds interesting.