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New Profoto Pro-8a Power Packs!

dfarkas

Workshop Member
I just posted a quick summary of the new Profoto Pro-8a power packs over at my blog. Here's the basics:

2400 Ws pack recylce to full power in 0.9 secs.
10 f-stop power range in 1/10th increments (5 W/s - 2400 W/s)
Flash duration of 1/1,600 (full) - 1/12,000 (min)
Color temp varies less than 160 deg K from min to max
Shot-to-shot stability of less than 1/50th of an f-stop
Full asymmetry
Supports up to 1000W modeling bulbs
Built-in Profoto Air transceiver

This thing is more accurate than a D4 and faster than a Pro-7a.... with a price tag to match. The 2400 comes in at $11K and the 1200 at $9700.

Available in early October. I'm expecting to get hands-on time at Photokina.

Now taking pre-orders. :D

David
 

Jack

Sr. Administrator
Staff member
Nice specs for sure David, but $11 GRAND for a pack? Sheesh!
 

Stuart Richardson

Active member
That brings up a good point. Where exactly does your money go in these things? I don't mean this as a challenge, just a question. At a cursory glance, it seems a lot of money for something that basically fires a flash tube (it is not even the flash itself, nor is it battery powered and freed from the mains). Where it is easy to make the mental leap with optics (which are made from exotic materials, extraordinarily precision ground, assembled, lots of moving parts etc) and medium format digital with its huge, low yield silicon sensors, electronics, LCD displays and so on. What is in a profoto (or a broncolor, or a elinchrome, or a hensel etc) power pack that makes it cost 11,000 dollars (or even 2000 dollars)?
 

LJL

New member
Yeah, noticed that myself. Do like the speed of this new pack for sure....very impressive specs, and if it delivers within those specs, it gets more high marks. Would be a great unit for fashion and stuff, I would guess, but only two heads and not even battery makes it a bit less attractive. The D4 is still a phenomenal pack considering what it does. The speed on this new Pro-8a does look very impressive however, suggesting they have a lot of electronics to manage and store a lot of charge for shooting power.

Guy, just think....a couple of these, plus heads and stuff are in the range of a rather nicely tricked out MF kit ;-) (Wonder if it comes with the espresso maker?)

LJ
 

fotografz

Well-known member
Uh? Where's the Bentley hood ornament ... or is that extra? :wtf:

And here I thought my 2400 D4's were mind bogglingly expensive ... but hey, at least I can run 4 heads ... with this pup I'd need two for a mere $22,000. :rolleyes:

Makes that Hensel Tria 1500 Speed I was looking at (which recycles @ .7 sec. full power and supports 3 heads) ... look like chump change @ $2,225. :LOL:
 

dfarkas

Workshop Member
Stuart,

These kinds of specs are really hard to achieve. You could use lens design as an example... with camera optics, lens designers have to balance several factors and make certain trade-offs. Center sharpness, edge sharpness, light gathering, CA, distortion control, coma, astigmatism, macro-contrast, micro-contrast, color rendition, flare suppression, bokeh, size, weight, feel, and, oh yeah - cost to make and how many they can sell at that price.

Top end studio lighting is very similiar to this. The Pro-8a was designed as a no sacrifice pack. In the past, you could have a fast, powerfull pack with quick recycle and short duration but limited control and okay color stability, or you could have a very color stable pack with more control but so-so recycle speed and duration, etc.

To put all the elements together like this is very, very difficult. The 8a has less color and power variation than the D4, which is one of the best out there. Shot-to-shot power output is only +/- 1/50th of a stop! The most accurate hand-held meter can't even detect this difference. The color shift from 2400 W/s to 150 W/s is just 50 deg K, which you probably can't see without a digital color meter. It is 50% faster in recycle than the 7a, which is again one of the fastest. 0.9 seconds to 2400 W/s is really, really fast and <0.5 seconds is just plain rediculous for 1200 W/s. I've never seen a pack that has a 10 f-stop power range before, let alone one with 1/10th increments. That means you can go from 1/1 to 1/1000 power, with 100 levels of precise control. That means f/2.8 to f/90, as an example. The flash duration is as short as 1/12,000 sec and still only 1/1,600 at full power. All of these factors add up to what is an AMAZING feat of electrical engineering.

In addition to all these factors, it is designed to be used each and every day in professional use for years. The reason that Profoto Pro packs are the #1 pack found in any major rental studio from Tokyo to NYC to Paris, etc. is they just perform, day in and day out. The modifier selection is excellent and the flash tubes last seemingly forever. For those coming to the lighting workshop, remind me to show you a Profoto Pro-B head that has almost 500,000 shots on the original tube, after being dipped, powered-on into the Atlantic ocean... twice.

So, why do you need this level of control, accuracy, and performance? You may not for your photography, but some might argue that the price of Leica, Zeiss, or Schneider glass isn't worth it. How could a 50mm lens cost $6,000, for example? Or, some may question whether they need a 60MP MFD back, or even a 31MP MFD when a Nikon or Canon would do. Why spend $40K on a digital camera when $1K will do? The reality is that the equipment is there for those who need it, whether it be lighting, lenses, or camera backs. For many studio shooters, this pack would be a better investment than a new digital back every two years, especially if you were doing multi-shot shooting for commercial product.

If you're attending the lighting workshop, you'll get to see what the fuss is about Profoto, as that is what the host studio uses 100%, from packs to soft boxes. Lots of 7a and D4 packs. The 8a won't be available yet, but you'll be able to see where the money goes. A 7a 2400 is over $9K today, so $2K more for A LOT more performance is a pretty good deal actually.


David
 

Stuart Richardson

Active member
Thank you for the detailed answer Dale. I am not attending the lighting workshop, but I have assisted for people who use profoto, so I do have a general idea as to how they work and why people choose them. But to be completely honest, I don't really buy the need for 1/50th of a stop accuracy -- not just for my photography, but for anyone's. As you said, this is undetectable with a handheld meter, and undetectable by eye as well. The eye has trouble seeing a 1/6th of a stop difference. It would be one thing if people were shooting slide film still, where they needed spot on results on every single frame or else it was ruined. With digital, any minor differences in exposure and color balance can be changed very quickly and easily. Everything else seems great though, so I am sure it will be a great answer for a lot of studio shooters.
Don't get me wrong, I admire the march of progress and if you can do 1/50th of a stop, then why not, but it just seems a bit much. I am sure it will find many buyers though.
 

dfarkas

Workshop Member
You need that level of consistency if you are shooting with a mulit-shot MF back. Imagine if you have a 16 shot exposure and you were varying only1/6th of a stop....and your color temp was shifting only +/- 30 deg K at the same time...

David
 

dfarkas

Workshop Member
Makes that Hensel Tria 1500 Speed I was looking at (which recycles @ .7 sec. full power and supports 3 heads) ... look like chump change @ $2,225. :LOL:
Marc,

The Tria 1500 Speed is a symmetrical pack with a 1500 W/s full power vs. an asymmetrical 2400 W/s pack. It is also 6 stops control vs. 10 stops. A better comparison would be the Tria 3000 AS, which still only covers 6 stops (96 - 3000 W/s). And, unlike your D4 packs, the four outlets split into two symmetrical groups, rather than individual control on each head. Flash duration is 1/740th sec with one head vs. 1/1600th. Recycle is 2 sec at full power vs. 0.9. The Profoto really dominates in a head-to-head, but should considering that the Tria is $4,200 vs. $11K for the Profoto. Personally, what I fiind most useful is the lower power settings that are attainable from this new 8a pack. I use 19 W/s an aweful lot on my D4, and would love to have 5 W/s when I need it.

David
 
T

TMARK

Guest
About time the Pro8 came out. Nice specs. One thing to remember about lighting is that you can keep it forever, almost. I had Pro6 lights for years. Bought them just as the Pro7 system came out. Last year I upgraded to Pro7's and love them. I can leave these on and shoot for 15 hours and the last pop is the same as the first in terms of color temp and output.

Two head limit does not bother me as I usually use one head per pack anyway. I wonder what the flash duration is for two Pro8's driving a twin heads at, say, half power.

Don't sleep on teh Acute2 line of packs and heads. I have an Acute 1200 that I use all teh time when I travel. Consistent and reliable, takes all the Profoto modifiers etc.
 

LJL

New member
David,
I think your points are well made, and do understand the value of gear that has these sort of capabilities. It may not be for everyone, but it also can do things easier that are a lot harder to achieve with some other gear.

Think about multi-pop exposures, for example. Having that much control over color and exposure duration is important. Sure, some folks may not care, or are willing to spend the time in post to correct any color variances or shifts, but this unit can help reduce those issues a lot. Another thing that comes to mind is that ability to dial things down with very subtle control in light. I am thinking about a situation with something like a grid spot, where moving the light closer or further to help get just the right exposure because you do not have fine control on the head, also disrupts the lighting setting itself. Having a packhead that one can control that finely allows critical light placement for spread and effect, then dialing in precisely the amount of light for the exposure needed.....and controlled from the camera no less. Very cool.

Sorry to prattle on, but after catching a breath from the sticker shock, the capabilities of these higher end packs and stuff take on a much greater value for somebody that is shooting a lot of things and needing to control that light very precisely. This Pro-8a looks like quite the ticket.

LJ
 

fotografz

Well-known member
Marc,

The Tria 1500 Speed is a symmetrical pack with a 1500 W/s full power vs. an asymmetrical 2400 W/s pack. It is also 6 stops control vs. 10 stops. A better comparison would be the Tria 3000 AS, which still only covers 6 stops (96 - 3000 W/s). And, unlike your D4 packs, the four outlets split into two symmetrical groups, rather than individual control on each head. Flash duration is 1/740th sec with one head vs. 1/1600th. Recycle is 2 sec at full power vs. 0.9. The Profoto really dominates in a head-to-head, but should considering that the Tria is $4,200 vs. $11K for the Profoto. Personally, what I find most useful is the lower power settings that are attainable from this new 8a pack. I use 19 W/s an awful lot on my D4, and would love to have 5 W/s when I need it.

David
Oh, i have no doubt this Profoto is top dog ... but as far as I'm concerned it can stay in someone else's kennel ;) And that is coming from a Profoto enthusiasts.

A two head pack is useless IMHO ... maybe okay for a battery unit, but not a studio pack ... at least not in my studio. Yet, I'm sure some specialist like fashion shooters will want it.

But really, IMHO 11K is over the top for a 2 head box. It'll be interesting to see if the rental houses carry them.

Heck, for 11K I can buy 4 Tria 1500 Speed packs and make my own "Asymmetrical" bank of 4 heads rather than 2 ... totaling out at 6000 w/s instead of 2400 ... :ROTFL:
Or if I'm shooting multishot, I could get an entire Dedolite HMI system for 11K

As for dialing down to 5 w/s ... Gee, that's only $2,200. per w/s ... man, there are ton of ways to limit the light.

I don't mean to bash this high tech accomplishment ... it IS the cat's pajamas ... yet this is getting downright ridiculous ... $50K for a camera and 11K for a 2 outlet box. :wtf:
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
Cat's pajamas. I love it. I'm still laughing . Sorry if I only had 11k in my slimy little paws right now my litter box would be full of a lot of cool tools that I REALLY need. Sorry i have to agree with Marc. What it has come down too is we are to freaking lazy to get off our chair and actually dial down a light. At 51 you think i would enjoy that comfort from my chair. Sorry i need the exercise more . Not saying not to get one just use your head and not your wallet. And from my POV better have a damn good need for it. Some do
 

fotografz

Well-known member
David,
I think your points are well made, and do understand the value of gear that has these sort of capabilities. It may not be for everyone, but it also can do things easier that are a lot harder to achieve with some other gear.

Think about multi-pop exposures, for example. Having that much control over color and exposure duration is important. Sure, some folks may not care, or are willing to spend the time in post to correct any color variances or shifts, but this unit can help reduce those issues a lot. Another thing that comes to mind is that ability to dial things down with very subtle control in light. I am thinking about a situation with something like a grid spot, where moving the light closer or further to help get just the right exposure because you do not have fine control on the head, also disrupts the lighting setting itself. Having a packhead that one can control that finely allows critical light placement for spread and effect, then dialing in precisely the amount of light for the exposure needed.....and controlled from the camera no less. Very cool.

Sorry to prattle on, but after catching a breath from the sticker shock, the capabilities of these higher end packs and stuff take on a much greater value for somebody that is shooting a lot of things and needing to control that light very precisely. This Pro-8a looks like quite the ticket.

LJ
How did Multi shot shooters do it before this came out? I can't recall a single ad I've had done Multishot that suffered from the issues this pack supposedly solves.
 

fotografz

Well-known member
Cat's pajamas. I love it. I'm still laughing . Sorry if I only had 11k in my slimy little paws right now my litter box would be full of a lot of cool tools that I REALLY need. Sorry i have to agree with Marc. What it has come down too is we are to freaking lazy to get off our chair and actually dial down a light. At 51 you think i would enjoy that comfort from my chair. Sorry i need the exercise more . Not saying not to get one just use your head and not your wallet. And from my POV better have a damn good need for it. Some do
Heck Guy, I can controll both my D4s from an arm chair and that's 8 different heads if I want ;)

... and with Live View I don't even need to be in the same room :ROTFL:
 
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