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Profoto D1 or Hensel Integra Plus

cly

Member
I'm torn between 3 Profoto D1 Air or 3 Hensel Integra Plus and I'd appreciate comments.

Speed isn't an issue (and should I ever need a fast head I could rent it). Availability of Hensel stuff isn't an issue either as I'm living in Germany. I have used both and to me it looks like:

Profoto D1:
- Position of flash tube (dome required in certain situations)
- Mount of light shaping stuff via clasp
- Stand mounting (getting them into vertical position is a problem)
+ Profoto Air
+ 7 stop range

Hensel Integra Plus:
+ Position of flash tube
+ Mount of light shaping (very fast and easy)
+ Stand mounting
- Strobe Wizzard Plus
- 6 stop range

At the moment I'm not sure if I would regret having a 6 stop power range if I could have had 7 stops had I spent more money. Hensel were the less painful investment (assuming both Profoto and Hensel are reliable) :)

Usage: Images of small machines etc.

Chris
 

fotografz

Well-known member
I have and use both brands in my studio ... and have done so for some time. Lots of industrial work for General Motors and American Axel (I'm located in Detroit), on location research/manufacturing facilities and a lot of studio parts photography. Also use the lighting for conceptual portraits, events, etc.

Both are very reliable, durable, and well respected makes with superb build quality.

My take on the plusses and minuses is a bit different.

1) Number one plus for Profoto is the modifier mount. :thumbs: It is the only mount that allows you to focus the light by sliding the modifier back and forth on the body of the strobe (which is why there are measurement marks on the strobe body for repeatability, etc.) ... making each different modifier much more versatile.

In extensive real world practice I've also found it the easiest to attach and remove modifiers, and without a doubt the most secure. Unlike the Hensel top lever, the Profoto lever-clasp type lock can be rotated when opened so you can position it in a convenient to reach place.

2) The lack of domes on the D1s is both a plus and minus depending on use. The small grids that fit the D1 with flat glass are truly great for table-top spot illumination, (I have the 5º, 10º, and 20º D1 grids and use them all the time on one of my D1s ... the other two D1's have the domes installed for softbox applications) ... and D1s without domes are great for use with fresnel attachments, gobo boxes, Pro Boxes or anything that you insert the head into a fixed front modifier ... not to mention simple umbrella applications.

3) Not sure what problem you have with positioning D1's in vertical position. Explain more please. If you mean for horizontal lighting down on products from an overhead boom light, then you probably need an inexpensive drop down pin on your stand for either brand of light.

4) The Profoto D1's are slimmer and more compact for easier transport. I also use them for location work with PCB Vagabond MINI lithium batteries.

4) Profoto is more available at rentals, including rental of exotic generator boxes when you want to do creative lighting ... Profoto is well ahead of Hensel in this regard.

MOST IMPORTANT: IMO, your comparison should be between the Hensel Expert D and Profoto D1s, not Hensel Integra Plus. The Hensel Expert D 500 offers 8 stops, the recycle time and t.5 flash duration performance is superior to the Profoto D1s, and includes 3 different switchable radio system receivers: Strobe Wizard, Free Mask, and Profoto AIR. BTW, Strobe Wizard Plus pales in comparison to the Profoto AIR for distance performance by 3 to 4X. Personally, I would not get any Hensel product with Strobe Wizard only.

The Hensel Porty 1200L is a fabulous battery box which I use in concert with Profoto lights because both have Profoto AIR receivers ... so I can mix and match on location.

If you do a lot of outlining of product shots, investigate the Hensel Free-Mask system closely ... it can be a huge time saver.

Since you are in Germany and availability is presumably far better than in the US, I would probably go with the Expert Ds.

BTW, some of the best modifiers are offered by Elinchrom with their fast set-up/tear down Rotalux boxes ... and they now offer the fast set Rotoalux speed-ring in Profoto and soon Hensel versions. Highly recommended!

Hope this helps a little,

-Marc
 

cly

Member
Thanks a lot, Marc, this is very helpful!

Pricewise the Integra Plus are/were attractive but your take confirms my reservations. I'll do two things: restart my comparison, now Expert D versus D1, and rethink my budget. I won't get the Integra Plus.

Again, thank you very much!

Chris


PS: I must admit that when I posted my question, knowing that you use both Profoto and Hensel, I was hoping you would post your point of view :)
 

Kirk Candlish

New member
... and D1s without domes are great for use with fresnel attachments, gobo boxes, Pro Boxes or anything that you insert the head into a fixed front modifier ... not to mention simple umbrella applications.
I'm curious if you've compared the flat D1 glass vs with the dome on the Pro Box ?

The Pro Box was designed for the dome covered Pro/Acute/Compact heads with the extensive grading of reflective surfaces inside the box plus the glass diffuser.
 

fotografz

Well-known member
I'm curious if you've compared the flat D1 glass vs with the dome on the Pro Box ?

The Pro Box was designed for the dome covered Pro/Acute/Compact heads with the extensive grading of reflective surfaces inside the box plus the glass diffuser.
I hadn't noticed a difference, but that was when using the flat glass compared to the shorter domes of the D1s verses the deeper glass domes of the Pro/Acute heads which the ProBox interior tube gradations seem designed for.

The subject was D1 or Hensel mono heads, so I didn't take into account the Pro/Acute heads ... which are probably more effective in the Pro Box.

Next time I'm using the Pro Boxes, I'll pay closer attention and take some meter readings to see if there is a hot spot with the D1 head (dome/no dome), verses an Acute head.

Good observation and worth a closer look.

-Marc
 

gazwas

Active member
Marc, I can't stretch to the new B4 and my dealer recommends the B3 unless very high flash sync is needed so I was wondering if you have ever compared the Pro B3 Air with the Hensel Porty 1200L you mentioned?

Sorry OP this is a little OT. :eek:
 

fotografz

Well-known member
Marc, I can't stretch to the new B4 and my dealer recommends the B3 unless very high flash sync is needed so I was wondering if you have ever compared the Pro B3 Air with the Hensel Porty 1200L you mentioned?

Sorry OP this is a little OT. :eek:
Sorry, no I have not physically compared the two in person ... just on paper. My apologies to the OP also as I answer this inquiry :eek:

I opted for the Hensel Porty 1200L to replace the older Porty 1200 monster I used to use for location work. Plus, I have an older Hensel Mini that uses the same round-plug lights. So I already had ancillary stuff for Hensel.

However, I think for me I would have gone the Hensel route anyway even if starting from scratch ... unless I could have had the B4, which wasn't out then (although I don't even have a camera that could keep up with the box anyway :shocked:)

The Porty L delivers 450 full pops compared to 300 of the B3, is smaller and weighs approx 6Lbs less, recycles faster (0.2s to 0.95 @ full power verses 0.6 to 1.8s for the B3), and has a slightly shorter flash duration (when used with a Porty Speed head: the shortest then is 1/8100s @ minimum power verses 1/7400s).

For me, as primarily a Profoto based studio, Hensel made it a lot easier to integrate the new Porty L by including full Profoto AIR radio control using the same AIR transceiver on the camera. I frequently use the Porty 1200L and Acute B600 AIR together. I also have the Mains Adapter to use the Porty L in studio.

On the other hand, the B3 does have 8 stops of control compared to 7 with the Porty. In the US Profoto is available for rental more than Hensel Porty. Plus, of course, if running two systems then there is also the modifier compatibility issue.

Compatibility has been eased a bit as of late since I use the highly portable Elinchrom Rotalux soft-boxes a lot for location work, and Elinchrom now offers the quick set-up Rotalux speed-rings for Profoto, Hensel and other brand heads. I also have a couple of Hensel to EL adapters so I can use some older fixed mount Elinchrom asscessories like my EL Gobo box.

As a side benefit, Hensel offers some VERY interesting accessories and modifiers. Their 76" Terra Box "Deep Space" is a spectacular 48" deep parabolic, and @ $1,360 complete is quite affordable compared to Profoto, etc. (a friend has one, I do not ... yet :)).

http://www.hensel.eu/fileadmin/Doku...orm/400D193/400D193_Terabox_Deep_Space_en.pdf

Their Porty Star-Spot Fresnel head is a true self-contained strobe head, not an add on (I do have that one). The Porty ring light is carbon fiber with a handle and is very light weight and easy to use.

Did I mention the Porty one head kit with an added Porty speed head is almost 1/2 the price of a B4 with two Pro B heads? That $4,000 difference paid for the Porty Mains adapter, Fresnel head, and Elinchrom Rotalux 27", 39" and 59" modifiers with money left over :thumbs:

However, it all depends on whether your dealer is doing a really deep discount on the B3 AIR and a couple of Pro-B heads, and whether you are fine with the Profoto modifiers you already have. There is something to be said for one system simplicity.

-Marc
 

J.Look

New member
The Porty L delivers 450 full pops compared to 300 of the B3,
That must be the smaller 600Ws Porty? The 1200Ws delivers around 240 at full power

For me, as primarily a Profoto based studio, Hensel made it a lot easier to integrate the new Porty L by including full Profoto AIR radio control
Not full. The Air Software that I love to use in the studio works only with Profoto.

Compatibility has been eased a bit as of late since I use the highly portable Elinchrom Rotalux soft-boxes a lot for location work,
I love the Elinchrom deep octas (70cm and 100cm) and I use them a lot outdoor and I love the fact that with the Profoto heads you can use the deflector that comes into the umbrella holder. That won't work with Hensel heads where it is located at the bottom the flash.
My Beauty Dishs stays in the studio now and the light output is also almost another two f-stops.

I moved after using Hensel for about 10 years to Profoto two years ago and I have never looked back since.
I had two Portys, 9 Integra Pro Plus and some other Hensel equipment and now Profoto Pro8a, D4, D1, Acute B2

Jens
 

fotografz

Well-known member
That must be the smaller 600Ws Porty? The 1200Ws delivers around 240 at full power



Not full. The Air Software that I love to use in the studio works only with Profoto.



I love the Elinchrom deep octas (70cm and 100cm) and I use them a lot outdoor and I love the fact that with the Profoto heads you can use the deflector that comes into the umbrella holder. That won't work with Hensel heads where it is located at the bottom the flash.
My Beauty Dishs stays in the studio now and the light output is also almost another two f-stops.

I moved after using Hensel for about 10 years to Profoto two years ago and I have never looked back since.
I had two Portys, 9 Integra Pro Plus and some other Hensel equipment and now Profoto Pro8a, D4, D1, Acute B2

Jens
Right you are ... B&H has the wrong specification printed for the 1200 (I notified B&H and they responded, will verify, and correct the misinformation).

The Hensel is battery ... and I rarely use it in studio tethered to a computer, so the software is a moot point for me. What I meant is that you can remotely control the Porty levels with the AIR transmitter at camera, which you can't do with the Acute B2 600 L AIR.

Most of my lighting is also Profoto ... D4s, D1s, Acute B2 ... and I also primarily use the Elinchrom Deep Octs on the Profoto heads with deflector ... or when traveling really light, on an Elinchrom Quatra with Lith battery.

I LOVE the Hensel for its cost to features ratio, size to power ratio, and for the various lights and modifiers that extend the possibilities like the StarSpot fresnel ... but if it wasn't AIR controlled, I would not have opted for it. Adding AIR was a smart move on Hensel's part.

-Marc
 
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johnnygoesdigital

New member
It should be noted that the Hensel L1200 charges to 80% in less than an hour, with asymmetrical power distribution, and is weather resistant. Being able to light remote locations with two lights is such a plus. I probably will get a Hensel to Profoto cable along with a few Profoto lights...just in case. I like their modifiers too.

Marc, do you have suggestions as to the best Profoto lights to use for Hensel L1200?
Thanks.
 

fotografz

Well-known member
It should be noted that the Hensel L1200 charges to 80% in less than an hour, with asymmetrical power distribution, and is weather resistant. Being able to light remote locations with two lights is such a plus. I probably will get a Hensel to Profoto cable along with a few Profoto lights...just in case. I like their modifiers too.

Marc, do you have suggestions as to the best Profoto lights to use for Hensel L1200?
Thanks.
I haven't converted any Profoto lights to Hensel yet. I need every Profoto head I have, so probably will just use the Hensel heads I have on the Porty.

-Marc
 

J.Look

New member
It should be noted that the Hensel L1200 charges to 80% in less than an hour, with asymmetrical power distribution, and is weather resistant. Being able to light remote locations with two lights is such a plus. I probably will get a Hensel to Profoto cable along with a few Profoto lights...just in case. I like their modifiers too.
Using Profoto Heads on a Hensel Porty was easy with the older Porty models but not with the L1200. You can ask Flash Clinic in New York. They have done that ones where just the parts were $1000 plus 6 month wait.

It is also not asymmetrical like the Profoto B4. Just 1:1, 1:2, 1:3
Won't work for me when I am using a ringflash as a second head.
So I moved from one Hensel lithium to two Profoto B2. Same weight both together, 100% asymmetrical, no extension cords needed, you always have one spare if one dies, same price (I got them with the free head offer)
 

fotografz

Well-known member
Using Profoto Heads on a Hensel Porty was easy with the older Porty models but not with the L1200. You can ask Flash Clinic in New York. They have done that ones where just the parts were $1000 plus 6 month wait.

It is also not asymmetrical like the Profoto B4. Just 1:1, 1:2, 1:3
Won't work for me when I am using a ringflash as a second head.
So I moved from one Hensel lithium to two Profoto B2. Same weight both together, 100% asymmetrical, no extension cords needed, you always have one spare if one dies, same price (I got them with the free head offer)
Let's keep it real, okay? ... the B4 is 1,000w/s and $8,000. with no heads. Who wouldn't prefer to have a B4 ... if it cost the same as the Porty? But it doesn't.

Two Profoto B2s = 1200 w/s but not from one head unless you have them next to each other, and use the bi-tube ($$$$). I often use the Porty full power when shooting against the sun for that extra stop of control.

If you have the B2s apart from each other , you have to go to each box to adjust power levels ... AIR radio only triggers the box. AIR in the Porty controls the power settings from the camera.

Don't get me wrong, I love my Acute 600 B2 AIR, but it has it's own limitations.

-Marc
 
I think you need to look at what you can afford for your budget and what you will grow into. Profotos are nicer lights, particularly with the modifier mount and the flexibility of the zoom reflectors, and it is easy to rent additional Profoto packs/heads as needed. Hensels are a lot more bang for the buck, have less expensive domes and flash tubes, and you won't find them in rental houses in the U.S. While Marc is correct that the Profoto mount is nicer, I will say that the Hensel mount sucks. Not nearly as bad as Elinchrom, but I really don't like it.

I have no experience with the Hensel D lights, but on the whole I have been very impressed with the quality and durability of my Integra Plus lights. Marc is right that Strobe Wizard kind of sucks. I use it occasionally and it is very hand to have, but nine times out of 10 I just use Pocket Wizards. Capture One has a module that allows you full control over some Profoto Air lights and I don't think I would buy any more lights that I can't control via Capture One.

My general recommendation is that if your budget allows Profoto, get them. If you can't afford Profoto, buy Hensel and never look back. If the 5-stop range of the hensels isn't enough, you can knock them down with ND gels if you need. If you go the Hensel route, I would recommend the 9" reflector and grid kit -- for $400 you get shallow, medium, and long reflectors and 10, 20, 30, 40 degree grids. Of course on Profoto, the Zoom Reflector handles all of that, but you still need grids. Also, if you get Hensel you will need to buy a beauty dish for the simple reason that they are awesome.

One big "gotcha" with the Hensel lights that no one seems to mention is the speed ring is huge and you need shorter poles with most softboxes. If you have a big investment in Chimera or Plume softboxes, that could be a problem. I don't think the Octaboxes require the short poles. As a work around I discovered Hensel softboxes and they are excellent. If I could figure out how to put grids on them I wouldn't use anything else.

Broncolor are also really nice, but they fall into the category of "if you have to ask, you can't afford it." I have mostly ruled out Elinchrom based on the mount.
 

cly

Member
Thanks a lot for all further comments! I still haven't made up my mind and I'll have another look at the Profoto D1 with respect to color and light constancy in subsequent exposures.

The price difference is marginal. I have a nice offer for the D1s and a different one for the Hensel Ds, both are quite close.

Chris
 

J.Look

New member
Let's keep it real, okay? ... the B4 is 1,000w/s and $8,000. with no heads. Who wouldn't prefer to have a B4 ... if it cost the same as the Porty? But it doesn't.
Yes, they are not playing in the same league.

Two Profoto B2s = 1200 w/s but not from one head unless you have them next to each other, and use the bi-tube ($$$$). I often use the Porty full power when shooting against the sun for that extra stop of control.
I usually never use more than maximum of 300Ws per head but I can work with 1/1600s sync speed with my camera so I don't need a lot to overpower the sun.
I have a twin head so I could get 1200Ws out of one head with the two profotos.

If you have the B2s apart from each other , you have to go to each box to adjust power levels ... AIR radio only triggers the box. AIR in the Porty controls the power settings from the camera.
I have them always with an assistant and they are faster with changing the power than me changing it with the remote. I love the control in the studio but I don't need it outdoor. And I love the fact the profotos have rotary knobs. When I am shooting with a ring flash I have the generator next to me and I can change the power without looking at it.

But I guess he is more interested in the studio lights anyway.
For me it is important that I can rent extra equipment if I need it. Renting Hensel is almost impossible in the US and I don't know any of the typical equipment rentals worldwide who works with Hensel. In Germany you can rent them directly from Hensel and buying them is also easier (here it can take three month).
The D1 is smaller and lighter and easy to use outdoor with a battery. You can switch them to a battery mode and I have the Alien Bees Vagabond minis to power them outdoor and they work great. This is not possible with the Hensel.
They had some problems with the first Expert Ds making a chirping sound but it looks like they fixed it and I think they are very good.
 
The D1 is smaller and lighter and easy to use outdoor with a battery. You can switch them to a battery mode and I have the Alien Bees Vagabond minis to power them outdoor and they work great. This is not possible with the Hensel.
Hensel MPG, Dynalite XP1100 or most of the Innovatronix batteries will power Hensel monolights.
 

J.Look

New member
Hensel MPG, Dynalite XP1100 or most of the Innovatronix batteries will power Hensel monolights.
The Hensel MPG is not in their program anymore since over a year. Maybe you can get it used but have you tried one with the Expert D? It would be on your own risk. Same with any other external battery. Not a problem with the slower older models but I would not try it with the newer ones. The Profoto will charge slower when you switch it to battery mode.
 

fotografz

Well-known member
The OP is in Germany ... not the USA.

Working with assistants to adjust light levels is helpful, but not free. I would always prefer to adjust the lights from camera as opposed to having an assistant running from light to light ... especially lights in far rooms. That can be something of a circus act when working on a complex set ... including in concert with monos buried in a soft-box 12 feet in the air.

I also use the D1s with the PCB Vagabond mini batteries ... but only as a supplement if I need to light a larger outdoor location. I do not know what battery may power a Hensel Expert D. Since it is digital control, I'd ask the battery maker before buying anything.

1200 w/s from one head is useful when overpowering the sun mostly because most people do NOT have 1/1600 sync speed cameras ... and really helpful if the light is at a distance from the subject no matter what camera you use.

In the end, I agree with Bill ... if you can afford Profoto, including any future generators and accessories, then go for it ... the modifier mount alone is worth it. If the investment is too much, then Hensel is a fine German made product that produces an excellent and consistent quality of light, and offers some very affordable and innovative modifiers ... some of which are not available elsewhere.

-Marc
 

johnnygoesdigital

New member
I will say that the Hensel mount sucks. Not nearly as bad as Elinchrom, but I really don't like it.

I don't agree. The Hensel mount is simple, and very strong. I've used big octaboxes in windy conditions, and they hold tight, just really need another sandbag. It seems it only gets windy when the octa goes up:) Shooting groups with a big octa and 1200 w/s on a remote location is reason alone to consider Hensel. Mounting the octabox is quite easy too, I just remove the baffle and grasp the softbox ring, clamp and go. The Hensel L1200's ability to distribute the flash power using ratios is quite good too, because you can set the power for A/B, and then adjust light output. Okay, not true asymmetrical, but the ability to use two lights on locations with control over lights from the camera is really nice!
 
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