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Profoto B2
- Thread starter RVB
- Start date
kdphotography
Well-known member
Yeah Ken, one can hope … a digital AIR controlled one is what I'd guess.
However, I'd suspect that this B2 concept may be beefed up to 500 or 600/Ws later on.
I am just in the middle of making a lighting decision, and (finally) decided to add a second B1 500 rather than this B2 … no box, and no cords for mobile work is the reason. I already have a tiny Elinchrom Quadra Lithium that does the same thing as the B2.
- Marc
I have two B1s and one of them hit the concrete floor during a portrait shoot. I accidentally hit it so no one else to blame. While the B1 was sent for a repair I was given a free B2 location kit and OCF mods to try.
It eventually took a month to repair the light as the repair guy was away for training (on how to fix the B2) so I have had a good taste of what the B2 is like.
1. DESIGNED FOR MOBILITY: It's smaller and lighter than I expected. man it feels much lighter compared to B1. It's small and fits nicely in almost any case or bag. Very good for air travel. Extremely we'll made.
2. ON CAMERA FLASH: It's so heavy when used on camera. My 1Dx with lens and with bracket and with the B2 head and cable and battery pack attached...it's not nice. Such a cumbersome set up for event shootings. Cable is annoying for on camera work. it also takes much longer time to set up the B2.
3. RELIABILITY: B2 can fire fast but in my experience it missed fire occasionally and sometimes completely blast out and over exposes the shot in TtL and continuous shooting mode. I cannot duplicate that but it happens. However, With single fires it did not miss a beat.
4. CHARGE: 215 full power flashes at 250w/s is limiting. Bring a spare battery always. I shot with it in studio while charging. Never ran out of power. Huge plus.
5. POWER: At 250w/s it's simply too weak to overpower the sun. I wanted to overpower the sun at a wedding and no luck. It can do if you put it right next to your subject but it's very limiting. It struggles to balance strong daylight bareheaded at a little distance, let alone trying to get creative and soften the lights. You get the point.
Verdict: it's a sweet kit from Profoto. If you are a run and gun wedding shooter who rely heavily on natural light and want to throw a bit of fill, if you shoot at extreme condition and need to take minimal set up, if you work with an assistant and do a lot of boom shots, you should try out the B2 kit. But for my mixed uses, I was happy that my B1 came back.
Excellent report Felix.
Contrary to my post above I did get the B2 AIR with one head and two batteries.
I found it to be a perfect companion to the B1 AIR for wedding and event work when working with an assistant. Rather than use the B2 as an on-camera light (which, like you, I would think to be a bit unwieldy), we used it on a mobile boom arm as fill for a stationary B1 on a stand. For example, at a wedding reception we set the 500W/s B1 off in a corner of the room equipped with a Profoto globe reflector, then as I moved around the reception and dance floor my assistant moved with me to provide fill from the opposite side of the Key B1 light. Much easier to work with the tiny B2 head on the end of the boom arm than it would be with the larger/heavier B1.
I also used the mobile B2 as key directional lighting on a boom arm or stand, with an on-camera TTL speed-light acting as fill. This application was by far the most used at the shoots I did with the B2. Worked perfectly.
Zero mis-fires … however, I was working with a Sony A99 and Leica S(006), neither of which are supported for TTL with the B1 or B2 AIRs.
- Marc
Contrary to my post above I did get the B2 AIR with one head and two batteries.
I found it to be a perfect companion to the B1 AIR for wedding and event work when working with an assistant. Rather than use the B2 as an on-camera light (which, like you, I would think to be a bit unwieldy), we used it on a mobile boom arm as fill for a stationary B1 on a stand. For example, at a wedding reception we set the 500W/s B1 off in a corner of the room equipped with a Profoto globe reflector, then as I moved around the reception and dance floor my assistant moved with me to provide fill from the opposite side of the Key B1 light. Much easier to work with the tiny B2 head on the end of the boom arm than it would be with the larger/heavier B1.
I also used the mobile B2 as key directional lighting on a boom arm or stand, with an on-camera TTL speed-light acting as fill. This application was by far the most used at the shoots I did with the B2. Worked perfectly.
Zero mis-fires … however, I was working with a Sony A99 and Leica S(006), neither of which are supported for TTL with the B1 or B2 AIRs.
- Marc
Andrew Gough
Active member
Thanks for the link Andrew!
Read it twice, and also read the follow up comments which helped clarify some apparent comparative omissions on the author's part … especially given that the premiss was to examine Profoto's so called "marketing hype".
I have the good fortune to own and use the two systems being reviewed: Current Elinchrom Quadra with Lithium batteries and both type heads; plus Profoto B1s and the new B2 … plus a third battery choice with our Hensel Porty 1200L kit featuring three types of radio control built in (Hensel's Strobe Wizard and FreeMask … and more importantly, Profoto's AIR which allows mixing it in with Profoto AIR gear). Unfortunately I am not sponsored by anyone, nor receive any free gear. I have worked with all three Brands over many years, and kept updated on all three as new technology became available.
Each system has its charms and functions, and frankly one could not go terribly wrong with any of them … including, I would add, Broncolor Move 1200L if one is flush with cash. These modern portable units are all quite capable and convenient compared to past choices we had … and all of them are much better choices over multiple speed-lights.
That said, my portable preference has skewed more toward Profoto with the advent of the B1 and B2 battery systems strobes. Beyond HSS and TTL, the Profoto mount is one consistent reason for this preference. IMO, creative use of a wide range of modifiers is one of the main reasons to use strobes, and the mount is extremely important to that end.
While one of Quadra's chief attributes is the size of the tiny heads, it is also the primary drawback due to the proprietary plastic mount that requires use of an adapter to use standard EL modifiers. I've had two of those flimsy plastic mounts break on the job, rendering the head unusable with the chosen EL modifier. I've also had my share of difficulties with the standard EL mount, including larger EL modifiers stressing the mount and falling off. I've also had three Skyports fail over the years. The newer ones are a bit better, but one of those three was the newer design. In comparison, the Profoto mount has proven idiot proof even with less experienced or clumsy assistants, and has the added attribute of allowing the modifier's qualities to be adjusted by sliding the mount back and forth on the Profoto B1 head. The AIR transciever has been bullet proof (so far). FYI, the small B2 head doesn't require an adapter to take the standard Profoto mount.
One of my favorite sets of modifiers are the Elinchrom Rotalux line due to their wonderfully easy and swift set-up for mobile field work. I especially like the versatile 27" and 39" Rotalux Deep Octas, (BTW, the big 39" is suspect when used on the adapted Quadra head, and I wouldn't recommend it). When Elinchrom offered Rotalux speed-rings for Profoto, I broke into my happy dance. I switched all my Rotalux mods to Profoto mount. Since then, the Quadra's have virtually sat unused.
BTW, the author is mistaken regarding consistent B1/B2 TTL results … once TTL is performed the user has the option to lock it in. The B2 is a two head asymmetrical pack where the Quadra is a fixed 1/3, 2/3 distribution.
In my applications, I found HypeSync to fiddly to deal with when under pressure, and since I use 1/1000 sync AIR with my leaf-shutter camera frequently, with full power output, the B1 B2 combo works to overcome most any bright sun situation … when more is needed, I bring the Hensel 1200Ws box and can mix it with the B2 for fill because both are fully controlled at the camera with the Profoto AIR transceiver.
Just my working experiences.
- Marc
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kdphotography
Well-known member
I'm actually liking the B2 better than the B1, primarily because the weight of the B1, with its battery attached, is unwieldy by comparison. The B1 center of gravity/weight is quite a bit when placed up high on a stand. Depending on light modifier used, it gets worse, with large modifiers becoming a sail in the wind. Bring a sandbag they say--- yeah, but then I might as well just bring a pack system which serves double duty as a sandbag at the base of a light stand. Still keeping the B1 but I picked up the Profoto B600 also. Very nice location kit combo with B1, B2 and B600. Not a fan of TTL, but then again it may be just me so used to shooting manually. Magnum reflector adds about a stop of power to the B2, which surprised me because you can't add the glass dome as you can with the B1. I've adapted an Omni reflector (Balcar) to Profoto mount and am testing now. Also just received two very interesting new "Speedboxes" with Profoto mounts to review----very promising.
ken
ken
Swissblad
Well-known member
Re: Profoto B2 vs B1 - query?
Many folks mention that the B2 is only 250W, while the Quadra's are 400W and the B1 is 500W.
Is this really an issue in the day and age of high ISO cameras?
I really low ISO is useful for HSS with fast primes, but under other conditions is 250W really a drawback?
Many folks mention that the B2 is only 250W, while the Quadra's are 400W and the B1 is 500W.
Is this really an issue in the day and age of high ISO cameras?
I really low ISO is useful for HSS with fast primes, but under other conditions is 250W really a drawback?
This question depends on what, where, and when you tend to shoot ... and a bit of what camera gear.
I think the B2 was primarily designed as an alternative to using speed-lights off-camera for directional lighting, which has become fairly popular. Profoto seems to be marketing the B2 as such.
When thought of in that context, the advantages of the B2 become more apparent:
> Speed-lights are harder to modify than strobes, and the array of strobe modifier choices are greater and more varied.
> Many of today's TTL speed-lights have thermal limiters to protect the unit from over-heating ... so in hot conditions and/or fast/heavy use, they can shut down at the most inopportune times and take an eternity to recover ... not an issue with strobes.
> You would have to gang 3 high-end TTL speed-lights and manually set all of them to full power in a single modifier, to equal one B2 ... hard duty that can beat the crap out of expensive speed-lights.
> A B2 doesn't have enough power to overcome full sun, but it can mitigate bright ambient backgrounds much better than a speed-light.
> when working with TTL & HSS, you will place more pulsed light on the subject than with a HSS/TTL speed-light.
Using higher ISO sensitivity affects both the ambient and flash exposures. So the ratio remains the same. An overexposed background just gets more over-exposed when you lift the whole image by increasing the ISO. The objective is to darken the background while placing enough light on the subject to balance it out.
It is shutter-speed that affects the ambient exposure, while (within boundaries) having no affect on the flash exposure ... (because the flash duration is faster than the sync shutter speed). Which is why I prefer working with a leaf-shutter camera to control the ambient. So, where my Sony is 1/180 sync, the S camera is 1/1000 sync ... giving me almost 3 more stops of ambient control in brighter conditions.
In dark conditions, you do the opposite ... rather than the highest sync speed, you use slower shutter speeds to capture more ambient (which is commonly called "Dragging the Shutter") and strobes to light the foreground subject which is "frozen" due to the fast flash-duration. In these cases, I try to use the lowest ISO possible based on ambient conditions and rarely need more than ISO 800 or 1000.
BTW, my preferred method of using these portable strobes for fast paced run&gun work ... a B2 providing off-camera directional key light in tandem with a TTL speed-light on-camera for fill. I use a grip to hold the radio sender and hard wire it to the camera's PC port, leaving the hot-shoe free to take the TTL speed-light.
Here are 4 pics using strobes ... only the big group pic with the sun in the frame would have been impossible with the B2 (that one required 1200W/s and a Magnum reflector)
https://fotografz.smugmug.com/Photo...or-ED/30647683_9TLXbg#!i=4445813265&k=4sQSW6z
- Marc
Re: Profoto B2 vs B1 - query?
Sure B1 is top heavy when placed on a stand and even so with heavier modifiers, we can get someone to hold it or sandbag it. We are photographers who provide solution to problems. With B2's limited power there's no work around if you need to shoot at a particular location in bright sunlight.
Some people opened up B1 tested and found capacitor is more like 420w/s not 500w/s Profoto claims. But so far I am quite pleased with B1. The Broncolor move surely looks nice but its heavier and bigger when you count the heads as well. B1 is smallish so with the profoto location backpack I can fit 2 B1s, 1635, 2470 and carry my 1dx+70-200 around my neck.
Regards
Felix
B2 is only good for fills or used as main light unmodified. B1 will give you more juice under bright sunlight. If you use B1 at 250w/s (half power) you will get twice as many flashes and instant recycle time.
Sure B1 is top heavy when placed on a stand and even so with heavier modifiers, we can get someone to hold it or sandbag it. We are photographers who provide solution to problems. With B2's limited power there's no work around if you need to shoot at a particular location in bright sunlight.
Some people opened up B1 tested and found capacitor is more like 420w/s not 500w/s Profoto claims. But so far I am quite pleased with B1. The Broncolor move surely looks nice but its heavier and bigger when you count the heads as well. B1 is smallish so with the profoto location backpack I can fit 2 B1s, 1635, 2470 and carry my 1dx+70-200 around my neck.
Regards
Felix
kdphotography
Well-known member
Re: Profoto B2 vs B1 - query?
In bright sunlight, even the B1 might be under powered. But you learn workarounds to get the shot. Leaf shutters help. Try using a Magnum reflector on the B2 (or B1)----you will be able to get a stop more light output on your subject. That's a great workaround if you find yourself constrained by the power of the B2 in bright sunlight.
ken
On the contrary, the B2 is quite usable with modifiers as a main light. It depends on what you are using the B2 to photograph; it would not be a good choice for groups.
In bright sunlight, even the B1 might be under powered. But you learn workarounds to get the shot. Leaf shutters help. Try using a Magnum reflector on the B2 (or B1)----you will be able to get a stop more light output on your subject. That's a great workaround if you find yourself constrained by the power of the B2 in bright sunlight.
ken
Check out all the videos on the Profoto site under blog ... scroll deep into it and look at the "Great Wall" stuff.:thumbup:Well, I took the plunge and bought a B2 location kit with 2 heads.
1st impressions - it is a sweet little rig.
Look forward to playing around a bit.
Cheers, S
I only got the one head B2 kit because I still have the Acute B600 AIR kit.
I think they make an extension cord for the B2 head so you can place the second head a distance away.
Best of luck! Looking forward to seeing your results.
- Marc
Re: Profoto B2 vs B1 - query?
Beating really brutal open sunlight with full control usually takes a couple of B1s or a 1200 W/s battery pack ... but I try to avoid that anyway. I get a lot of that here in Florida, but don't have to shoot in it very often ... so I don't lug around a ton of lights when working mobile "just in case". I may have a pack in the vehicle if I think I may get trapped into such a situation, but haven't had to resort to it yet.
The B2 off- with a speed-light on camera for fill seems to cover it pretty well 98% of the time.
- Marc
Yep, the Magnum does boost any Profoto light ... plus, any deep octa like the 27" Rotalux without diffusers acts the same way, except as a larger source.
Beating really brutal open sunlight with full control usually takes a couple of B1s or a 1200 W/s battery pack ... but I try to avoid that anyway. I get a lot of that here in Florida, but don't have to shoot in it very often ... so I don't lug around a ton of lights when working mobile "just in case". I may have a pack in the vehicle if I think I may get trapped into such a situation, but haven't had to resort to it yet.
The B2 off- with a speed-light on camera for fill seems to cover it pretty well 98% of the time.
- Marc
SOPHA has done some testing with the Magnum reflector in comparison to others and basically finds it rather useless as far as boosting output (B1). The telezoom reflector does seem to do the trick however you'd have to be wealthy to own even one.
http://sophastudio.blogspot.com/2015/04/update-on-profoto-b1-air-and-telezoom.html
Dave Black seems to go to the telezoom reflector along with switching out the frosted glass to clear glass (B1) quite often. He claims a boost from 500ws to 1200ws by doing so.
-Chad
http://sophastudio.blogspot.com/2015/04/update-on-profoto-b1-air-and-telezoom.html
Dave Black seems to go to the telezoom reflector along with switching out the frosted glass to clear glass (B1) quite often. He claims a boost from 500ws to 1200ws by doing so.
-Chad
kdphotography
Well-known member
Chad, I don't see any mention of the Profoto Magnum reflector in the link you provided; it seems the testing was with the normal zoom reflector, Buff's PLM, a few others, and a Profoto Telezoom reflector test done by another photographer, not even the author himself.
I have tested informally output levels in studio and on location using a light meter, the B1 with and without glass dome, and the B2----with the Profoto Magnum Reflector. There is a one-stop increase in light output, when using the Magnum, even without the glass dome. The B1 and B2 both have internal reflectors, though quality of light may be better with the dome installed on the B1. Light output will decrease slightly, but you can also use a diffuser with the Magnum reflector to soften the light.
ken