New Profoto Monolights released

[Guy Mancuso]

I pretty much had both setups at one time or more in my life and i pretty much have come down to a good battery unit . using the Ranger now with 1 head but I do want one more of these and have 2 heads and 2 rangers. Outside these have really proven to be essential shooting exteriors and such. This shot is with only one Ranger but a second one would have ben even better as i could have lit the house a touch more. Than I have 3 Monolights from Elinchrom actually 4 one is broken they are he older R units 600 watts and one 1200 RX which I use for as the main. Actually like to upgrade the 2 Rs mono's to get the RX so i can control them from the skyports transmitter. The skyports i can group each head into it's own group and adjust the power from the camera or I can mix and match the groups. Nice useful feature with the skyports. The only thing I do not like is the Elinchrom mount system. Profoto has the best design for mounting than anyone . But right now the extra Ranger pack and head are needed. This shot is just one ranger pack and even that looking into the sun did a excellent job of filling in, another setup would be even better.

 

[fotografz]

Well, I just read up on the Profoto Air system, and found that not only does it have 8 channels, and controls up to 6 light groups, it can be controlled from the computer like my D4 can, but wirelessly from 1000 feet distance using a Profoto Air USB 2.0 Transciever!

Plus the Profoto Air Sync will wirelessly trigger any camera, mono-block or generator with a receiver of any type. Now that interests me since I have both Profoto with Pocket Wizard and Hensel strobes with different recievers and neither system has the range of the Air Sync which is 3X that of a Pocket Wizard, (i.e., 1000 feet.)

But these pups are pricey. Gotta sell a couple of Profoto 600s pronto. Watch the F/S section for a decent buy.

 

[LJL]

Marc,
Glad you chipped in on this conversation, as I know your experiences and perspectives are very helpful.

Your comments about what the Profoto Air wireless can do is also what impressed me, but I failed to convey that in my other posts. It really does look like Profoto has transferred some tech, reduced other, and maybe added some new twists. I am impressed by their new device, and started to wonder how it may compare in features with the new PW devices. Seems like the Profoto Air does not cover as many channels, but does have a lot more control per channel, beyond just triggering. That is what counts, I think.

And yes, these new D1s are a bit pricey....even for the non-Air versions, which I am not really sure why anyone would buy if they could get all the cool features of the Air units. (Guess some folks with mixed sets of stuff might stay manual, but not sure why. This is useful tech, in my opinion.)

LJ

 

[Professional]

Seems i need to own a bank or have bucks to spend on many equipment, every year there are new cameras, lenses, lightings, products, seems photography nowadays is how much we can spend more than how many shots we are shooting.

 

[Ben Rubinstein]

In the pro spectrum the prices have not changed all that much, lighting hasn't changed that much if at all, biggest changes seem to be at the lower end if anything, there never used to be a huge choice of entry level equipment. Pro's are choosing the equipment they need for their work and offsetting it against the work itself - nothing has changed there. I don't think the prices of Profoto are at all relevant to those who think it's expensive frankly. Heck if you want to see expensive start looking at movie lighting gear and budgets...

 

[Professional]

In the pro spectrum the prices have not changed all that much, lighting hasn't changed that much if at all, biggest changes seem to be at the lower end if anything, there never used to be a huge choice of entry level equipment. Pro's are choosing the equipment they need for their work and offsetting it against the work itself - nothing has changed there. I don't think the prices of Profoto are at all relevant to those who think it's expensive frankly. Heck if you want to see expensive start looking at movie lighting gear and budgets...

I am not talking about Profoto prices itself, but when someone has for Example Alien Bees, then some will tell him go to Elinchrom, then another will tell him there is new Profoto products is coming and it is great even the prices are not high or expneive that much comparing to older models, and then someone will come and tell him: believe me, Bronocolor is the best lighting in the world, so what that man who is looking for high end or better quality products if he will keep changing or replacing lighting due to reviews and others experiences?
I bought H3DII 39, someone told me go with 50, and there are some recommend to go with P65+, and sure not longer than 1 year we will see maybe Sinar or even same those brands will produce something around 80-100mp Dbacks, so what we can do if we always looking for the highest but money is an issue? here are some have that 50mp and P65+, how did they got it? and I am sure here are members using Profoto lights and many times i hear members saying they used to many lights or many cameras [expensive ones], how?

 

[Bob]

Lots of lights will do the job.
Take your pick, Profoto, Elinchom, Hensel, Bron, they all work fine.
Now we look at them from the point of view of radio slave operation, computer control, and maybe most important in the long run, modifiers.
The other thing to consider is how much you want to spend. That trade-off raised me above Alien Bees, but also kept me away from Bron and Profoto. If the latest Profoto mono were shipping when I took the plunge, I probably would be right back where I am, since I need a battery pack pretty often I first picked a ranger, and since I like to make my equipment budget stretch a bit, I decided to just keep using the Elinchrom line.
In the end, I am pretty sure that several will work for you, there are exceptions, such as when you have the need for a 8 foot para, but then you could rent it for the job.
-bob

 

[fotografz]

I am not talking about Profoto prices itself, but when someone has for Example Alien Bees, then some will tell him go to Elinchrom, then another will tell him there is new Profoto products is coming and it is great even the prices are not high or expneive that much comparing to older models, and then someone will come and tell him: believe me, Bronocolor is the best lighting in the world, so what that man who is looking for high end or better quality products if he will keep changing or replacing lighting due to reviews and others experiences?
I bought H3DII 39, someone told me go with 50, and there are some recommend to go with P65+, and sure not longer than 1 year we will see maybe Sinar or even same those brands will produce something around 80-100mp Dbacks, so what we can do if we always looking for the highest but money is an issue? here are some have that 50mp and P65+, how did they got it? and I am sure here are members using Profoto lights and many times i hear members saying they used to many lights or many cameras [expensive ones], how?

This exactly the discussing taking place about the Leica S2, as well as all this new strobe gear.

However, if you know what your needs are then what someone else says is irrevelant.

All that these type of discussions accomplish is the sharing of news that may be of interest to someone who's needs are not being met, and new technology solves that need. It sure isn't a race to see who can out spend the next guy ... not in this economy it isn't.

For example, mono heads are the least of my studio expenses ... for the price of just one D4/2400 box, I could get a pile of monos. However, a couple of D1 Monos would help solve some issues I've faced in the past with my present Profoto 600R monos ... therefore may well be a considered business decision.

Some have asked why I haven't gone for the H3D-II/50 over the H3D-II/39 . The answer is simple ... I don't need it. It's only an incremental improvement in resolution and shooting speed. I'll wait until there is a quantum leap ... and in the meantime I own my 39 and it's earning it's keep.

 

[Professional]

Lots of lights will do the job.
Take your pick, Profoto, Elinchom, Hensel, Bron, they all work fine.
Now we look at them from the point of view of radio slave operation, computer control, and maybe most important in the long run, modifiers.
The other thing to consider is how much you want to spend. That trade-off raised me above Alien Bees, but also kept me away from Bron and Profoto. If the latest Profoto mono were shipping when I took the plunge, I probably would be right back where I am, since I need a battery pack pretty often I first picked a ranger, and since I like to make my equipment budget stretch a bit, I decided to just keep using the Elinchrom line.
In the end, I am pretty sure that several will work for you, there are exceptions, such as when you have the need for a 8 foot para, but then you could rent it for the job.
-bob

That's why i am happy with my lights [Hensel], maybe i don't look much into specifications of different brands, and i always want something new technology to make life easier or to get benefit of that new technologies, but that will destroy my budget as well, i don't say it is always depends on the need, i can work with even Alien Bees for great results, but this not the point, but as you said, we can't always look at the latest gear if we are happy with older ones, and if those new products are improved, so how much we will miss to not having those new improvements, or to anther saying: is it must to get those new improvements for any reasons rather than needs?

This exactly the discussing taking place about the Leica S2, as well as all this new strobe gear.

However, if you know what your needs are then what someone else says is irrevelant.

All that these type of discussions accomplish is the sharing of news that may be of interest to someone who's needs are not being met, and new technology solves that need. It sure isn't a race to see who can out spend the next guy ... not in this economy it isn't.

For example, mono heads are the least of my studio expenses ... for the price of just one D4/2400 box, I could get a pile of monos. However, a couple of D1 Monos would help solve some issues I've faced in the past with my present Profoto 600R monos ... therefore may well be a considered business decision.

Some have asked why I haven't gone for the H3D-II/50 over the H3D-II/39 . The answer is simple ... I don't need it. It's only an incremental improvement in resolution and shooting speed. I'll wait until there is a quantum leap ... and in the meantime I own my 39 and it's earning it's keep.

And it will never end, always there are discussions about new products, and the problem is with those comparisons that shows how great and amazing those new products are comparing to older versions, for example like 5DII is superior to 1DsII in high ISO and Video, ok, and now D3X is the best DSLR maybe i don't know in what or how, so i want the best, should i upgrade then?

 

[fotografz]

That's why i am happy with my lights [Hensel], maybe i don't look much into specifications of different brands, and i always want something new technology to make life easier or to get benefit of that new technologies, but that will destroy my budget as well, i don't say it is always depends on the need, i can work with even Alien Bees for great results, but this not the point, but as you said, we can't always look at the latest gear if we are happy with older ones, and if those new products are improved, so how much we will miss to not having those new improvements, or to anther saying: is it must to get those new improvements for any reasons rather than needs?



And it will never end, always there are discussions about new products, and the problem is with those comparisons that shows how great and amazing those new products are comparing to older versions, for example like 5DII is superior to 1DsII in high ISO and Video, ok, and now D3X is the best DSLR maybe i don't know in what or how, so i want the best, should i upgrade then?

Well, that's the point isn't it? If you don't know what you need, then you'll be at the mercy of every new development that comes along ... which will put your wallet in danger of being forever empty ... or you'll be disappointed with what you DO have because someone else says it isn't the best. That's how idiotic this has become.

 

[Guy Mancuso]

We also need to realize the life of lighting which is far longer than almost any camera we use out there. Lighting in general does not change often and the biggest changes are usually functions and some we can pass on for a generation or two before we may get behind a real curve in working. I had dynalites that lasted for years and frankly they have not changed much since than and that was awhile ago. Buying into almost any of the top brands will usually bring the top quality from them . Hensel, Elinchrom, Profotos, Bron , Dynalite are not the bottom end feeders with inconsistent light and color temp they are some of the best level you can buy into. So really almost any will get the job done very well. The trick is knowing what your needs are. In studio most will go pack and heads and if shooting fashion looking for fast recycle times. Product shooters in studio are looking for consistency and control of power and many times controlling them with a computer. Interior folks may have a mix with Mono , Battery and pack and head . Battery for there obvious need. Mono's to put in a room 100 ft away from you and such. So need is the most important element to look for , than functionally how it will work for you. These new profoto' sare very nice looking and could easily last a minimum of 5 years for you. Buy lighting for long term.

 

[Professional]

Well, that's the point isn't it? If you don't know what you need, then you'll be at the mercy of every new development that comes along ... which will put your wallet in danger of being forever empty ... or you'll be disappointed with what you DO have because someone else says it isn't the best. That's how idiotic this has become.

it is ashamed to say that this is the situation here exactly, i don't know why but maybe it is showoff, or maybe i don't want to be called old fashioned, or could be that i don't want to be less than others who got the highest quality, could be all those reason and more, but in all cases you are right, this making me to regret photography due to my Money lost every time and never get satisfied.

the problem in my country is that we don't have much opportunity to get creative and inspiration and talented in photography, so for that another reason maybe we go to grow and improve our gear over our skills and talents.
I just won recently with a photo from my travel, and i won before last year with another photo from my travel as well, couldn't win with our local photos, and i can't travel more than 1 or 2 times every year which low amount, so when i save money i save it to spend on gear, but i know that i will go no where by this way and don't know when i should stop.

 

[Professional]

We also need to realize the life of lighting which is far longer than almost any camera we use out there. Lighting in general does not change often and the biggest changes are usually functions and some we can pass on for a generation or two before we may get behind a real curve in working. I had dynalites that lasted for years and frankly they have not changed much since than and that was awhile ago. Buying into almost any of the top brands will usually bring the top quality from them . Hensel, Elinchrom, Profotos, Bron , Dynalite are not the bottom end feeders with inconsistent light and color temp they are some of the best level you can buy into. So really almost any will get the job done very well. The trick is knowing what your needs are. In studio most will go pack and heads and if shooting fashion looking for fast recycle times. Product shooters in studio are looking for consistency and control of power and many times controlling them with a computer. Interior folks may have a mix with Mono , Battery and pack and head . Battery for there obvious need. Mono's to put in a room 100 ft away from you and such. So need is the most important element to look for , than functionally how it will work for you. These new profoto' sare very nice looking and could easily last a minimum of 5 years for you. Buy lighting for long term.

OK, keep going, at the end i am the beneficial, other testing and using to have the reviews and we go with the higher positive reviews on any product, lil bit saving our time and money to test many products for our need and job!

 

[LJL]

Professional,
This is a very engaged and interactive community on this forum, and there is a lot of great talent and advice floating freely here. I think some of the things folks like Guy, Marc, Bob, and occasionally myself included are saying is that one should use whatever they can afford and that gets the job done. Some of the lower priced lighting gear can do a lot for not much investment. However, I have found that most of the time, a lot of that gear tends to be money somewhat wasted. In other words, you may not recover your spending, either in selling it later, as compared to better gear, and more importantly, when you are using it. There is a lot to be said for flash consistency, as several have pointed out. I have a philosophy that I have followed for a long time, and it has served me well.

Basically I try to buy the best I can afford that gets the job done and gets out of my way when I am working. In other words, I do not obsess over the latest and newest, unless there are some really valuable new features that will allow me to get what I want with less effort and with greater consistency. Not everybody needs or wants this sort of thing, and that is fine. They are not paying my bills, nor doing my work. I do not succumb to all the competitive hype, but I rather evaluate what the gear can do for me and how I shoot or use it. I would have Profotos in my kit, if I could justify the need. Until recently, most of my work has been outdoor, available light, fast action sporting events (polo, equestrian, auto, etc.), and there has been little "need" for lots of lighting gear. I have been able to get by with very reliable and accurate DynaLites, but after years of shooting with them, and realizing some of my changing needs, I see some of their limitations for me. Does not mean they are not good lights, but I am starting to outgrow their capabilities with the greater use I am giving things as my focus changes.

I think many of us go through that sort of thing, so we do change gear....some more frequently than others, but most folks keep the bank account in mind, and buy things that will pay for themselves with use. The more prudent path is to buy into good lines of gear so that you can expand as you need to. The better brands of lighting, as discussed here provide that sort of growth opportunity, and the makers pay attention to the folks buying and using their gear, to some degree, constantly improving and offering features that are useful, and not just for marketing.

Trust me, I get a few pangs of envy when I read about Marc getting some new lighting gear, or Guy cycling through some new camera system, but I learn from them and offer up my own perspectives and experiences, not worrying if what I shoot with is the latest, the most expensive, etc. My stuff does what I need it to do, and when it no longer can, it gets replaced, or the kit grows with new things for my needs, not at anybody else's urging or comments. I respect the inputs from folks, but a 50MP MF system is beyond what I need right now, as are $10-11K Profoto Pro 8a Air packs plus heads. That may change as my business changes, and if it does, I will look at whatever best serves my needs then. These new Profoto D1 Air monoblocs are not something I have been looking for, but I certainly appreciate what they could allow me to do maybe easier than my DynaLites are today, so I am seriously thinking about revamping my lighting kit with them in mind. That is me. Might not be the solution for anybody else.

Sorry if this sounds a bit like a sermon or something. Not intended that way at all. I was just starting to sense some of your frustration over all this high dollar gear hype, and wanting to try to keep up a bit. Trust me, this forum can be dangerous in that respect, but the good thing is that if you know what you need, can afford, and how you want to use it, there are lots of folks here that can offer many perspectives, and that is great.

As for not having many shooting opportunities.....create them. I used to be out chasing horses nearly every day, taking 3-4K shots per week in peak season. I am changing that, and now am spending more time shooting people, starting to create new kinds of product perspectives, and things that are forcing me to use different gear in different ways. I love it. Nothing terribly great yet, but it is important to keep the artistic side engaged also, and not just to chase the same old paying work all the time.

Sorry for taking some of this off track, folks, but some of these new products have some really great features and promise, and it is sometime worth getting past specs and prices and thinking about how they can "get out of the way" for shooting. These Profoto D1s are looking that way for me, and I am not much of a monobloc person. Good stuff. Thanks for indulging my rant.

LJ

 

[Forrest Black]

However, if you know what your needs are then what someone else says is irrevelant.

:thumbs:

 

[Forrest Black]

Well, that's the point isn't it? If you don't know what you need, then you'll be at the mercy of every new development that comes along ... which will put your wallet in danger of being forever empty ... or you'll be disappointed with what you DO have because someone else says it isn't the best. That's how idiotic this has become.

:thumbs::thumbs:

 

[fotografz]

We also need to realize the life of lighting which is far longer than almost any camera we use out there. Lighting in general does not change often and the biggest changes are usually functions and some we can pass on for a generation or two before we may get behind a real curve in working. I had dynalites that lasted for years and frankly they have not changed much since than and that was awhile ago. Buying into almost any of the top brands will usually bring the top quality from them . Hensel, Elinchrom, Profotos, Bron , Dynalite are not the bottom end feeders with inconsistent light and color temp they are some of the best level you can buy into. So really almost any will get the job done very well. The trick is knowing what your needs are. In studio most will go pack and heads and if shooting fashion looking for fast recycle times. Product shooters in studio are looking for consistency and control of power and many times controlling them with a computer. Interior folks may have a mix with Mono , Battery and pack and head . Battery for there obvious need. Mono's to put in a room 100 ft away from you and such. So need is the most important element to look for , than functionally how it will work for you. These new profoto' sare very nice looking and could easily last a minimum of 5 years for you. Buy lighting for long term.

Guy, I think that, in recent history and on-going, lighting has made quite a leap forward and solved many issues we all just put up before because there was no new technology to speak of.

These new developments in digital radio controls, and Lithium batteries for portiable units, are two examples. For my applications, these are more important considerations than purchasing some incremental upgrade in the megapixel race ... and would have a greater impact on workflow and IQ than 10 more meg.

I do agree that no matter what level, if you can prioritize based on need, buying the best lighting solution you can is still a good long term investment.

 

[Guy Mancuso]

Yes Marc exactly , I did not really finish up what i was getting into. The newest lighting gear these days are lot about consistency with digital with regards to output , fast flash times and than the remote control systems, than some battery units are coming out with better battery setups.

Let's start a shopping list . I think this maybe a good starting point of some things to look for when shopping.

Power control. When you drop power in tenths or more you want the color temp to remain the same from full power to very little power. This one is a biggy and the cheaper systems do not do a very good job here and one of there main issues. So look for units that can do this well.

Modifiers and mounts. I still think Profoto has the best mounts and Elinchrom makes great modifiers but a botched mounting system. Regardless you want to look at the system as a whole in regards to how many types of modifiers there are and how useful they are. Brons, Profoto, Elinchrom and Hensel have a very nice selection.

Speed. Some packs like the New Profotos 8 are so fast they keep up with motor drives on recycle times. Great for the fashion shooter but not so important for a product shooter. Here you are going to pay for that speed so you have to analyze the real need for something like a Profoto 8 setup

Type of pack. Obviously this one can be a easy pick or a tough decision . Pack and heads have been the mainstay for years and better power and controls. This has changed a great deal in recent years with Monolights which have gotten so good on both fronts. Some issues with Monolight is getting in a soft box and they become very top heavy. So you must have stands that can handle weight but there advantage is being able to put them almost anywhere that can handle AC output. Battery units are obviously just that , needs no external power has very limited modeling lamp and only lasts as long as the battery normally around 200 full pops. But great for outdoor type work. We could goon about the benefits of each setup and the down falls.

Size and weight . Obviously if you are a traveling shooter this becomes important with airline restrictions and things of that nature. This maybe the most important feature for some shooters.

Rentals. Another area to consider be it in town or on the road you only have so much and you need more lighting be it your went done or need extra. Nice to be able to rent lighting that will work with you modifiers or better yet rent a whole setup on the road and leave yours home. I did this doing annual reports traveling through Europe. I rented everything. It simply was much easier but I rented what I had so I know the system well. Many things to consider here .

 

[Guy Mancuso]

Price okay a sensitive issue some of this stuff is beyond your pocket and very expensive. But usually this is a big investment in time like 5 years or so.

Remote controls. This gets better at almost every passing year they keep improve the remote systems not just to shoot but able to control output from your transmitter or even computer.

My personal preference of system I would buy. I like the Profotos , Elinchrom and Hensels. After that some systems i just don't want to invest in them or they are so expensive it limits my buying power. Now my preference may not be even close to your needs so YMMV

 

[LJL]

Guy,
If I may add one more thing to your list of things.....

Some of the newer monolights are also starting to cover a greater range of power and control than before. Having 7 stops of range with 1/10-stop adjustment is not something most monolights have, so one is gaining a fair amount of fine control.

The only flies in the ointment, so to speak, is the incompatibility of some of the newer remote devices. The PocketWizards are great for their universal acceptance, but they only trigger things. The newer remotes on things like the Profotos, Hensels and Elinchroms may provide additional adjustment capabilities, but most are not compatible with PWs or anybody else. This may not matter for some, but it could become an issue for folks wanting to use mixed sets of things. Guess this is an argument for one manufacturer over another in the kit, but it sure would be nice if there was more wireless compatibility across gear, and even within some lines of gear.

The rest of your points are on target with the things I have been thinking about. Good summary.

LJ

Edit: The Profoto Air Sync, as Marc mentioned, will act as a triggering device from the Profoto Air Remote or Sync when connected to other packs or lights that may not have radio controls or radio controls of some other bandwidth. You are only able to trigger things, but that is useful.