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anybody seeing S2 image files yet?

S

Shelby Lewis

Guest
Holy Cow! The first one (haven't looked at the others) at the dc.watch.impress.co.jp site is scary detailed. Color looks nice, but the detail... oh the detail. No smoothness in the skin at all (making me wonder about makeup on David's example). You can actually see hairs inside her nose :eek:

Just miles and miles of detail (a retouchers worst nightmare :D)

wow.

thomas said:
Michael R's report is online incl. a 100% crop as well: http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/cameras/leica-s2-first.shtml

edit: on the Leica Forum someone posted a link to a similar capture with the P40+:
http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/1031776-post15.html
here are two more:
http://dc.watch.impress.co.jp/img/dcw/docs/313/117/017.jpg
http://dc.watch.impress.co.jp/img/dcw/docs/313/117/018.jpg
Click to expand...
 
Guy Mancuso

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
Like I said the detail on all of these is going way above any 35mm system out there and pretty much on par with each other. Michael's and Davids shots are also with more contrasting lighting and mine and those others are using a little softer approach and there is some difference their with just that alone but regardless it will be interesting to see how this does which I have no doubt the Leica glass will be awesome . It's a interesting system and I like the concept very much even worse it fits my shooting like a glove. That alone is very dangerous to me. For me though I have to see how the system and all it's part comes together, than I need to rob a bank because this one in this market right now is a risk reward balance beam. I have to come up with a serious amount of cash but not ruling it out either. Look forward to getting one in my hands and testing it out.
 
T

thomas

New member
Shelby Lewis said:
Holy Cow! The first one (haven't looked at the others)
Click to expand...
the others are closer shot - more comparable to Michael's S2 capture.
To me the P40+ is the reference here as it has a similar sized chip, 6micron pixel pitch, newest sensor technology and ~ the same resolution.
I have no doubt that the S2 can get there as well. But the two S2 100% crops of David and Michael show that it is not quite there by now... IMHO. Of course there is different lighting and, and, and... but my impression is that there is still something to gain in the S2 files. Maybe the production model will be improved. Of course we can't judge about IQ based on these two crops... justed posted the p40+ shots with regard to some comments above.
 
Guy Mancuso

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
I agree Thomas against the P40+ and Hassy 50 are the sole comparison backs. Since they are all 6 micron and the latest sensors from Dalsa and Kodak.

For me I want the P40+ to move up too or if the switch is on than a S2 but that is a decision that will wait till next year or maybe sooner who knows. Not ruling anything out

The REAL trick here is to keep a very open mind without prejudice, which I am seeing already. That helps no one make a decision
 
T

thomas

New member
Guy Mancuso said:
For me I want the P40+ to move up too or if the switch is on than a S2 but that is a decision that will wait till next year or maybe sooner who knows. Not ruling anything out

The REAL trick here is to keep a very open mind without prejudice, which I am seeing already. That helps no one make a decision
Click to expand...
my feeling is that for you the P40+ is the way to go (or to keep the P30+) as you seem to think about changes/upgrades from time to time. The S2 is not "upgradeable". Just "replaceable". Too, it will take some time until all the lenses will be available. And as to the lenses' quality - with the 1.3 crop of the P30+/P40+ you are certainly very well served with the Mamiya glass, no?
 
Guy Mancuso

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
Yes I am and would not switch until all the Leica glass is out completely and it is costly for now my best option is the P40+ and looking at that now and want to test it again one more time at the workshop unless Leica can convince me otherwise. Leica to me is next March when everything has time to settle in. I'm not in any hurry
 
Guy Mancuso

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
Going to back track for a second just to show what some sharpening can do to these files

Posting that 100 percent 900 pixel wide crop again from a P30+ and than one sharpened. Now given it is a portrait it certainly maybe too much. So we really have to careful when comparisons come up Raw processing these files will have a lot to do with outcome. They posted reversed but save them to desktop and open side by side you will certainly know which one was sharpened and seriously I may not even be critically focused this was during a lighting workshop and paying more attention to teaching than shooting. She also has very little makeup on as well since she was the first model of the day and we needed to get started and we wanted easy on the makeup
 
P

pcunite

New member
Guy Mancuso said:
Posting that 100 percent 900 pixel wide crop again from a P30+ and than one sharpened. Now given it is a portrait it certainly maybe too much.
Click to expand...
Guy,
With the Phase p65+, Leica S2 and M9 I am getting the feeling that we have arrived... That the image quality has reached a pinnacle. Of course if you want to printer larger and larger a 180 mega pixel camera is even better for that purpose. But these sensors are producing pleasing colors and sharpness. What more is there? I hope now that the manufactures concentrate on usability features. Things like LiveView, better LCD screens in bright sunlight and so on. This is all good news and I am pleased with the reports of these cameras and glass.
 
L

LJL

New member
Well, according to Michael (Reichmann) on Luminous Landscape in his S2 review post of today, it looks like folks may be able to use C1 to do their processing.....at some point. Check this statement from the MR post on LL:

"There have been some early reports that Phase One will restrict access to Leica S2 files from within C1. I have queried this directly with the CEO of Phase One and have been told unequivocally that this is not the case, and that Leica S2 files will not by blocked in any way for processing in Capture One."

Now, that does not say anything about there being "optimized" profiles or other such things, but folks using C1 should be able to create their own profiles to get the sorts of results they may be looking for. This all remains to be seen when it actually happens, but at least this should reduce some of the anti-LR anxiety that some folks may have.

LJ
 
Guy Mancuso

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
I agree and i think truthfully 6 micron is the smallest we can go but obviously I am not a engineer and don't know that real answer but I think we are coming extremely close to hitting the wall. Obviously any very good lens is going to produce here and these sensors that are hitting the streets from Dalsa and Kodak are very very very good . In this 6 micron area we have in Phase P65 and P40 Dalsa and than the S2 and H50 Kodak. If there is any real difference in these sensor I would point directly on how they render color more than anything else. I really liked the P40+ from my testing and was better than my P30+ reason I am looking at it and the S2 is in that camp as well along with the Hassy 50. Now I think we hit the point to start looking at the feature sets , improving the bodies of Phase and Hassy and offer some nice features like the S2. 2 card shooting and a list of other features. Obviously these are different and some still want removable backs so that game needs a update to it. I certainly am not shy about saying so either. Phase needs a new body no question about it and these kinds of things is what a lot of us are looking for going forward. I love MF shooting but I also love this industry and for all of them to survive and prosper the game needs to be upped and start giving us stuff we are after in the features. I know it is a extremely small market and hard to get resources to improve but some things should have gone down in pricing as well with regards to sensors which is the biggest expense in these boxes.

Even this P30+ is outstanding for a 31mpx sensor as you can see how decent a back it is even at 2 or 3 or longer in age. The new sensors are better but not earth shattering so OEM's need to look at improving the surroundings of the sensor with better feature sets
 
L

LJL

New member
Looking at the very few files that have been presented for the S2, and realizing that most were shot at ISO 100 or 200, and at smaller apertures on the lenses in the studio shots, it is still rather impressive. The colors and details look very good regardless of processing. That is a good sign, as it suggests the files may be quite robust to allow things to be processed in a variety of ways, yet not losing detail nor character. Pluses in my book.

Still waiting to see more natural light shots, at higher ISOs and hopefully at wider apertures to get a better feel for what this beast can do. In the MR review, it was commented that since the units that were being used in Germany were pre-production and the firmware had not yet been finalized, it was suggested that ISO 100 and 200 were to be used, as those profiles were evidently locked down already. It may be a while (October?) until we get so see some folks pushing the S2 a bit more toward the edges. Cannot wait for that.

In the meantime, it is looking, at first blush, like the S2 is a most capable performer in the prime market target zone of studio camera. Let's see how broad that becomes, because it is looking pretty good at this point.

LJ
 
Guy Mancuso

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
LJL said:
Well, according to Michael (Reichmann) on Luminous Landscape in his S2 review post of today, it looks like folks may be able to use C1 to do their processing.....at some point. Check this statement from the MR post on LL:

"There have been some early reports that Phase One will restrict access to Leica S2 files from within C1. I have queried this directly with the CEO of Phase One and have been told unequivocally that this is not the case, and that Leica S2 files will not by blocked in any way for processing in Capture One."

Now, that does not say anything about there being "optimized" profiles or other such things, but folks using C1 should be able to create their own profiles to get the sorts of results they may be looking for. This all remains to be seen when it actually happens, but at least this should reduce some of the anti-LR anxiety that some folks may have.

LJ
Click to expand...
Obviously that is good news for the C1 junkies. Workflow and raw processing matter a great deal to Pro's so if the C1 guys can continue like they do it makes it much easier
 
Guy Mancuso

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
LJL said:
Looking at the very few files that have been presented for the S2, and realizing that most were shot at ISO 100 or 200, and at smaller apertures on the lenses in the studio shots, it is still rather impressive. The colors and details look very good regardless of processing. That is a good sign, as it suggests the files may be quite robust to allow things to be processed in a variety of ways, yet not losing detail nor character. Pluses in my book.

Still waiting to see more natural light shots, at higher ISOs and hopefully at wider apertures to get a better feel for what this beast can do. In the MR review, it was commented that since the units that were being used in Germany were pre-production and the firmware had not yet been finalized, it was suggested that ISO 100 and 200 were to be used, as those profiles were evidently locked down already. It may be a while (October?) until we get so see some folks pushing the S2 a bit more toward the edges. Cannot wait for that.

In the meantime, it is looking, at first blush, like the S2 is a most capable performer in the prime market target zone of studio camera. Let's see how broad that becomes, because it is looking pretty good at this point.

LJ
Click to expand...
That is very normal and Jack and i were also told to only go to ISO 100 or 200 when we did the P65+ pre production unit as well and I caught that in the reviews and hopefully soon which Christian mentioned to me the final software is pretty much ready and hopefully soon we will see some of those images with it and higher ISO stuff. I'm very happy with ISO 800 but just the other day I pushed my P30+ to 1600 and yes i had noise but I also was screwed to the wall without it too becuase I was NOT allowed to shoot with a flash . Here is a sample of that nightmare. Now I could easily have run this through Dfine but did not. So yes we will need to get crazy sometimes on high ISO stuff.

This shot was a bear to do shot with the P30+ at ISO 1600 with 150mm at F4 1/60 of a second but I did use my secret weapon a MONOPOD. LOL
 
L

LJL

New member
Guy,
I think that worked out nicely. I seriously do not think a client would ever complain over this type of difficult capture. It is an event shot under difficult conditions, but you did a very nice job here. Yes, the monopod can be a wonderful friend ;-) I also see no issue with using things like Dfine or Noise Ninja for stuff like this.

LJ
 
Guy Mancuso

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
Thanks LJ and i actually put that monopod in my trunk of my car when I go to a shoot . With a DSLR I may have gotten away without it but not MF stuff. You need some support sometimes. I agree reason I did not use Dfine is I thought I hit a home run under those conditions and i also warned my client it was a nightmare to pull off. Now it may have been easier because of the design of the S2 here but I still would have used a monopod . The S2 with it's glass is still heavy but it maybe a easier camera to hand hold as well.
 
L

LJL

New member
Thomas,
I had looked at this device, but thought for the kind of shooting that I do, it would be in my way more than not. The hardest part is getting rid of it when you do not need it. At least the monopod can be collapsed down to a small, thick stick that can go back into a bag, or hang from a belt without being in the way as much. Just my thoughts on it.

LJ

P.S The equivalent of sorts that I do use it a small pouch that hangs from a belt and into which I can place the foot end of a monopod. Provides essentially the same sort of support, but from your waist, not shoulders, and is much easier to get the monopod collapsed and out of the way when you do not need it.
 
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