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anybody seeing S2 image files yet?
- Thread starter LJL
- Start date
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Alexander Bauer
Guest
sorry Thomas I can't substitute muddy for DOF
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Alexander Bauer
Guest
P40+ images are not f8 for sure they are as you like to call it (rich) with DOF so practically I'm not going to selectively pick and choose what part of the P40+ file I like better the P40+ files look straight forward good
but S2 examples look obviously better as it separates the details, most importantly hair even in the shadows evenly where most DBs just fail to deliver
"even though I like the selective and rich BOKEH I don't think it helps in this kind of situation"
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Alexander Bauer
Guest
I agree, that definitely takes away extra juice from the Phase files
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Alexander Bauer
Guest
at the moment my thoughts are how do we deal with Platinum Service Package?
it seems a little hot to even touch it
it seems a little hot to even touch it
Guy Mancuso
Administrator, Instructor
It does and until we get them together rocking on the same wavelength it's pretty tough to compare. I do like what I see so far. As always I'm after the best machine i can get and afford. Labels really don't mean much to me and i have switched systems on a dime before but it has to be justified in my mind first. I'm looking for facts not fiction.
Guy Mancuso
Administrator, Instructor
This is a tough one, it really is . My first thoughts are exactly this it is a brand new system out of the box with no S history behind it answer= get the warranty. Part 2 Expensive answer , could buy a lens instead. That is just a basic thought and it really is more involved than the first basic thought. Another issue is the backup and only a S2 can back it up. The Hassy, Contax, Hy6,Phase bodies are basically cheap compared to it and as most of us know it is extremely rare the actually back goes down. Bodies yes backs not really and the S2 being integrated complicates that decision a lot. You almost have to have that warranty in sense if your a working Pro. Obviously again this all depends on what you do and what gear you may already have and may not need a overnight camera. Very complicated and also very personal to your needs.at the moment my thoughts are how do we deal with Platinum Service Package?
it seems a little hot to even touch it
Seriously this is a thread all by itself because it is so involved to personal needs and also takes on the risk and reward issue . Very tough call
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Alexander Bauer
Guest
exactly :thumbup:
label in terms of trust has a lot to do for me and I think so far Phase is at the top not sure is it due to their own efforts or their dealers efforts!
obviously Capture Integration would be my choice
if others think there are others of the same kind please respond
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Alexander Bauer
Guest
I own 2x 1Ds mkIIIs, 2x 5d mkIIs and Dx3
one single good and logical thing about these cameras is they are making money so I can't possibly sell them unless something logically better comes on the market
I wonder how much it could cost insurance to replace the S2 and lenses in case they break or.. it looks to me like it may be cheaper than S2 Platinum Service Package?
actually Platinum Service Package could be a deal breaker for me
dougpeterson
Workshop Member
It's very understandable why one would want to make these comparisons right now. However, it's just too early - there is no good source of information right now on head-to-head comparisons.
Until you have a raw file from each system (and it must be the production - ready to ship - S2) of a similar subject matter from a trusted non-leica-fan source there is just no meaning to the comparisons.
This specific case
- subject size is so different that trying to tell the resolved detail of something like hair between the two systems is without meaning
- the focal length of the lens of the Phase file is not listed nor is in the metadata
- both are processed files so different levels of sharpening, noise reduction and JPG compression are in play
- there is no reference to what software the Phase file was processed in; C1 handles Phase files best for micro-detail and detail in the shadows
- etc etc etc
Trust me. I REALLY want to start making these comparisons; but until there is 1) a shipping system with final firmware and 2) a drop on the embargo of raw files - it's an exercise in futility.
Doug Peterson (e-mail Me)
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Guy Mancuso
Administrator, Instructor
Right now I have a lot of trust in Phase and more importantly my dealer which happens to be CI with Dave, Doug, Steve and Chris. First we are good friends but more importantly they take care of there customers and give you 110 percent support. Jack and I invite them to our workshops because of this type of support. We honestly want our attendees to have a great experience working with these folks for sales, support and service if that is what they chose to do and absolutely no pressure to buy or not which is very important to us, they are there to learn.
Guy Mancuso
Administrator, Instructor
Absolutely totally agree. I have been saying this for months you can toot a good horn but until we see the real horsepower it is meaningless.
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Alexander Bauer
Guest
its hard to stay without being bias unless you sell both or all products involved
also knowing and being familiar with both products is imperative
regardless of bias RAW files will tells more than we sometimes like to see or hear
subject to size is different but its all we got for now and anyways when I was comparing hair threads details I said I'm not going to be selective with P40+ obviously because of DOF but I have experienced muddy look in the shadows with hair regardless of DBs Leaf, Hassy or Phase used especially with brunettes
and I think both of us agree that Phase files could be shot to look better :thumbup: but in this case Red Dot shows more than just the usual overpriced tag
I agree, hopefully we will have something in the near future :thumbs:
woodyspedden
New member
Hey ShelbyOops... Sorry to David for calling him Dale. I played trumpet for a living for about a decade and every time I see his last name "Farkas", I think of Phil Farkas, principal hornist for years and years with the chicago symphony... and then I don't pay attention to what I type
Sorry David!
I was a subscriber to the CSO for many years and my remembrance was that Adolf Herseth was the principal horn since the days of Fritz Reiner. I believe he retired in the early 90's. Is Phil Farkas his replacement or was he from a much earlier time?
Woody
S
Shelby Lewis
Guest
Ah... but you confuse instruments. Herseth was principal trumpet FOREVER, and I believe still plays a tiny bit with the CSO. Farkas was principal Horn (some call French Horn). Some of those early Reiner recordings are FANTASTIC. They've all been reissued as SACD recordings as well.
I did a masters in music performance in the mid-90's at Notre Dame (indiana, not france, lol) and actually drove into Chicago (oak Park, actually) once a week and took trumpet lessons in the basement of the house of the then 2nd trumpet in the CSO, Bill Scarlett. I'm an architect/photographer now and didn't even realize I was just down the street from Frank Lloyd Wright's studio.
I need to watch it or I'll REALLY push this thread OT.
I did a masters in music performance in the mid-90's at Notre Dame (indiana, not france, lol) and actually drove into Chicago (oak Park, actually) once a week and took trumpet lessons in the basement of the house of the then 2nd trumpet in the CSO, Bill Scarlett. I'm an architect/photographer now and didn't even realize I was just down the street from Frank Lloyd Wright's studio.
I need to watch it or I'll REALLY push this thread OT.
Guy,
Just a minor correction. Yes, Michael's image was shot in pretty hard light. Mine was pretty soft light.
I was using a single Elinchrom strip-softbox to the model's left (you can see it in the catchlight) and an overhead light bank just for fill. No light on the background, no hair light, no hard reflector anywhere in sight. Simple. I wanted to test the camera, not the lighting.
Great discussion, btw. I've been so busy today that I haven't had a chance to get online yet, so it's interesting to see how things are going.
It's unfortunate that I am labeled with a "Leica-fan-bias" when others aren't labeled as such for other brands they may sell or promote. I don't hold back on my enthusiasm for Leica, but I do try to be as objective as possible. I think those that know me, understand that I am always honest and straighforward in my advice, recommendations, and buisness dealings. I've often talked people out of buying equipment that I didn't feel fit their needs or that I'm not crazy about.
Anyway, back to your usually scheduled programming. I have to get some sleep. :salute:
David
I read on David's blog that the S2 might have a smoother transition between in-focus and out-of-focus regions in comparison to some of the competing digital backs.
It would be great if somebody could post some model headshots or something shot at wide open on the lens so we can see how smooth those transitions are...This may seem like a small detail...but one of my biggest pet peeves when working with digital in comparison to film has always been the transitions between IF and OOF areas of an image. Film was just much smoother....and I'm hoping that the S2 has a more film like quality to it's transition
It would be great if somebody could post some model headshots or something shot at wide open on the lens so we can see how smooth those transitions are...This may seem like a small detail...but one of my biggest pet peeves when working with digital in comparison to film has always been the transitions between IF and OOF areas of an image. Film was just much smoother....and I'm hoping that the S2 has a more film like quality to it's transition
I posted updated pictures on my blog.
After checking out the files on my Eizo at work today, I can see why you guys were skeptical. My processing was really quite aweful. Silly me to trust my laptop display.... Not only were they oversharpened, but they were off-color too. Yuck!
This go around, I used C1 which was a royal PITA without a profile. I do hope Phase comes through on that. Once I have the S2 in hand, I can make a C1 camera profile myself using my EyeOne XT and ColorChecker SG, so that might help.
After C1, I used PS to fix the colors (only took about six different adjustment layers!) and remove blemishes.
Can we all just pretend that the images from yesterday didn't exist? I promise to use a color and detail critical display next time. :angel:
David
After checking out the files on my Eizo at work today, I can see why you guys were skeptical. My processing was really quite aweful. Silly me to trust my laptop display....
Not only were they oversharpened, but they were off-color too. Yuck! This go around, I used C1 which was a royal PITA without a profile. I do hope Phase comes through on that. Once I have the S2 in hand, I can make a C1 camera profile myself using my EyeOne XT and ColorChecker SG, so that might help.
After C1, I used PS to fix the colors (only took about six different adjustment layers!) and remove blemishes.
Can we all just pretend that the images from yesterday didn't exist? I promise to use a color and detail critical display next time. :angel:
David
now it looks much better!
Doug,
Totally agree.
The one thing though i enjoy actually is the amount of "noise" on the internet around the new leica's. Apparently their paradigm is direction setting. Perhaps: "l'histoire se repete"? Ithink it is, and enjoying to be part of it in realtime.
That is why i this forum is one of my farorites, whilst having a focus on gear (IQ) the real focus is on great pictures (PQ), pro's and amateurs alike.
Jan R.