anybody seeing S2 image files yet?

[Christopher]

Well so far so good, but nothing special at all. I mean Michaels image just shows in my eyes how awful lightroom is as a high end RAW processor. I find capture sharpening really bad, but perhaps it is only because I'm used to C1 and Raw developer.

Still your updated image looks much better than before. Still there seems to be some type of noise smoothing going on. Can you tell us what settings were used with C1 ? Is is Noise reduction of or at default ? I would love to see the crop with noise red. off completely, because I find C1 does as lightroom a bad job in noise handling.

Now if only the price would look better. I love the idea and feeling of the S2. I just can't find a space for it. would never want to give up the ultimate quality a large format camera with a MFDB gives me and owning both, is just not possible. Especially after dropping 5k on a M9 ^^

 

[Guy Mancuso]

I posted updated pictures on my blog.

After checking out the files on my Eizo at work today, I can see why you guys were skeptical. My processing was really quite aweful. Silly me to trust my laptop display.... Not only were they oversharpened, but they were off-color too. Yuck!

This go around, I used C1 which was a royal PITA without a profile. I do hope Phase comes through on that. Once I have the S2 in hand, I can make a C1 camera profile myself using my EyeOne XT and ColorChecker SG, so that might help.

After C1, I used PS to fix the colors (only took about six different adjustment layers!) and remove blemishes.

Can we all just pretend that the images from yesterday didn't exist? I promise to use a color and detail critical display next time. :angel:

David

Thanks David and as I said before this is a very tough crowd with a vast amount of knowledge in this market. Just being David the Leica dealer will always bring some skepticism because you are selling gear and have everything to gain. Users on the other hand have everything to lose and in this case a lot of money. Nothing against you as a individual or your integrity and honesty but this is just very natural from our seats. That is something you as a person just have to accept and your extra enthusiasm as well intentioned as it is just makes it a little tougher on us. That being said we all have our favorites as well but not many are so stuck on a brand to close our eyes either. If their is a better mousetrap than we will switch or buy. When making these comparisons we have to be at a neutral state when presenting it . Myself I like the Phase backs and the dealer I work with but I like Hassy also and i never stopped liking Leica regardless that I am not shooting them now. They just don't have a product for me until this S2 unit.
As a friend you will always be looked at with some skepticism because you are a Leica dealer and in this case selling the S2 product will be your toughest sell and main reason for that is the level of experience of your buyers and there knowledge but more importantly the investment being made it will get researched, questioned and picked apart 10 times more than selling a M9. Like I said earlier on this is a tough sell on many levels like price, experience and just picky as hell users. LOL

Anyway lets get back to the real program but as a friend and colleague I thought I would share that with you for your benefit. You just need to realize we are the bulls in the ring and running for that red flag is not automatic

Guy,

Just a minor correction. Yes, Michael's image was shot in pretty hard light. Mine was pretty soft light.

I was using a single Elinchrom strip-softbox to the model's left (you can see it in the catchlight) and an overhead light bank just for fill. No light on the background, no hair light, no hard reflector anywhere in sight. Simple. I wanted to test the camera, not the lighting.

Great discussion, btw. I've been so busy today that I haven't had a chance to get online yet, so it's interesting to see how things are going.

It's unfortunate that I am labeled with a "Leica-fan-bias" when others aren't labeled as such for other brands they may sell or promote. I don't hold back on my enthusiasm for Leica, but I do try to be as objective as possible. I think those that know me, understand that I am always honest and straighforward in my advice, recommendations, and buisness dealings. I've often talked people out of buying equipment that I didn't feel fit their needs or that I'm not crazy about.

Anyway, back to your usually scheduled programming. I have to get some sleep. :salute:

David

 

[Shelby Lewis]

I posted updated pictures on my blog.

Much better! The skin (no the shot) still sems a bit hot on my end (of course, I don't have an Eizo ) but that's a personal preference. Color is MUCH better.

I take it she has skin that just has a slight magenta-ness to it?

Thanks David... these are really nnice and helpful.

 

[paulmoore]

hard to know anything until the raw is seen.. how do you know what lightroom is doing if you can't see the raw? These jpgs are teasers..and the main question I have is what conditioner she is using? I could not find a split-end. Also I was hoping the lucky testers could have shot the 120mm..I will stayed tuned.

 

[Guy Mancuso]

Really weird thing I saved the file to my desktop and opened in CS4 and it is really RED

 

[Shelby Lewis]

Hey Guy... I was seeing the same thing as well... in either firefox or safari. Haven't opened in PS yet, though.

I still see slight red in the blog version (but WAY better than before), but the lack of other commentary makes me wonder if it's just the way I perceive color.

(could be her actual skin color, imagine that )

The fist example at dc.watch seems a bit more natural (though there seems to be a very slight mgenta cast on her face), but it's a tad hot on the facial skin as well... so I guess it's just too soon to tell.

All in all though, i think the IQ appears to be stellar. Wish I had some $$$

 

[Guy Mancuso]

No this is really red. Hmm just loaded back up and seemed fine in Safari . Something odd in Cs4

 

[Guy Mancuso]

Okay a screen grab . Look at this weird

 

[Shelby Lewis]

... Another issue is the backup and only a S2 can back it up. The Hassy, Contax, Hy6,Phase bodies are basically cheap compared to it and as most of us know it is extremely rare the actually back goes down. Bodies yes backs not really and the S2 being integrated complicates that decision a lot. You almost have to have that warranty in sense if your a working Pro.

As much as we may not like it, I think this is also where canikon (or better yet, Sony) comes in. Great dealer service is one thing, but having essentially nothing to shoot with in the midst of a high-dollar situation is a no-go. I'd assume anyone shooting with this stuff, at least as a high-pressure fashion/magazine shooter, have a minimal high-end 35mm kit as a worst case scenario backup.

You're right... a thread unto itself.

 

[Shelby Lewis]

Okay a screen grab . Look at this weird

WHOAAA.... NOT the red I've been seeing.

 

[dfarkas]

Hey Guy... I was seeing the same thing as well... in either firefox or safari. Haven't opened in PS yet, though.

I still see slight red in the blog version (but WAY better than before), but the lack of other commentary makes me wonder if it's just the way I perceive color.

(could be her actual skin color, imagine that )

The fist example at dc.watch seems a bit more natural (though there seems to be a very slight mgenta cast on her face), but it's a tad hot on the facial skin as well... so I guess it's just too soon to tell.

All in all though, i think the IQ appears to be stellar. Wish I had some $$$

Shelby,

I've corrected a lot of images in my 18 years of digital imaging and pro lab workd, and on the hardware calibrated Eizo, the image looks perfect. My settings are D6500, Gamma of 2.2, and luminance of 100cd/m2. If you are running on a Mac and have your Gamma set to 1.8 and/or your brightness too high, they will look bright as I push this to the edge on my screen (personal preferrence). But on my calibrated monitor, it is not blown out or hot. And, not red.

On my laptop, it looks a little off, but I am not falling for that one again anytime soon. :ROTFL:

David

 

[thomas]

guys... the image simply has no color profile. assign sRGB and everything is fine.
and for david: konvert to sRGB prior to posting on the web. non profiled images are simply a no go

 

[Shelby Lewis]

Hey David,

I'm not questioning your editing capabilities at all... I just see what I see

FWIW, I did drop your sample into LR, and found the whites of the eyes, and especially the grey backdrop to lean towards magenta... I also used the apple digital colorimeter to try to get some confirmation to make sure LR wasn't wonky.

In the end, the file looks too magenta to me, and on my machine... this is confirmed. But, I'm being really nitpicky (as I should looking at files from a $30,000 system). The WB seems spot on, the tint is about 5 points too far to the right. Exposure... I think that, also, is a personal bias. It's not the camera, of course.

IMVHO

I think your shot is really nice, and speaks volumes about the new system.

I just prefer my color (and exposure) to roll a bit differently than yours.

ETA: I'm also working on a calibrated system @ 6500/2.2

 

[dfarkas]

Okay a screen grab . Look at this weird

Guy, I think you have some color calibration and/or profiling issues going on here. What hardware calibrator are you using? Eye-One? Spyder? Monaco? ColorMunki?

I had an Eye-One Display 2 go "bad" a few months ago at work. We were using it as a quick and easy calibrator for Eizo Color Navigator and found "weird" stuff like you're seeing (on multiple monitors and different computers). After ditching the Display 2 and switching to my Eye-One Pro all was better. I'd suggest you try to switch to a different calibration device.

Because the Eizos are hardware calibrated, the entire OS provides accurate color irrespective of application, although profile aware apps wll render subtleties and out-of-gamut colors better. In a software calibrated system, things look different in profile aware applications. So, your web browser might only be off slightly, but CS4 will be totally whacked out, as the profile is probably screwed up.

You may even be better ditching your profile in the meantime and switching to sRGB Monitor Profile in the Displays control panel.

Good luck (nothing like a fun Saturday project),

David

 

[Guy Mancuso]

No everything is checked out and running fine just actually updated to SL and calibrated with Eye One. It must not have a profile or something. Just very weird. But not concerned either all my stuff looks fine

 

[thomas]

Because the Eizos are hardware calibrated, the entire OS provides accurate color irrespective of application, although profile aware apps wll render subtleties and out-of-gamut colors better. In a software calibrated system, things look different in profile aware applications.

this is not right. When you open images without color profile applications like Safari simply assign the monitor color space. What they should do is to convert (relative colormetric) the file profile to the monitor profile. But if the file has no profile it's all off.
Firefox can be set to assign sRGB to all image files without color profile (that's a very good thing). Safari is not capable to do so.

So, your web browser might only be off slightly, but CS4 will be totally whacked out, as the profile is probably screwed up.

No. Guy's color settings are set to ignore missing profiles (that's not so good) So your image is tagged with Guys working space (the ammount of oversaturation indicates that Guy is using ProPhotoRGB).

 

[Guy Mancuso]

I am using ProphtotoRGB as my color space and I process all my raws to that color space

 

[thomas]

I am using ProphtotoRGB as my color space and I process all my raws to that color space

that's okay. But you should modify your color prefs:
- Profile mismatch: preserve embeded profiles
- missing profiles: select when opening (you would have been promted to assign a profile when opening Davids image...)

And in the viewer you shouldn't display the document size (who cares) but the color space

 

[Guy Mancuso]

Thanks Thomas I made that change. Usually never a issue since am working with mine but never hurts

 

[thomas]

Thanks Thomas I made that change. Usually never a issue since am working with mine but never hurts

you're welcome.
You will not notice that change in your regular workflow as your captures are coming out of C1 with a profile (ProPhoto). But if - for whatever reason - you open an image without profile (unfortunately there are a lot around) you will be promted.
Just assign sRGB to David's image and it will look fine (maybe it looks not "right"; it depends on the color space David used prior to saving the file without profile. But this is definitely not your fault).