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Arca RM3D vs Cambo wide RS vs Alpa Max

archivue

Active member
being an arca user living in france, i have no trouble to call them...
For a complete combo
Cambo is around 15 % cheaper than Arca
Arca is around 15 % cheaper than Alpa
 

JSK Rangefinder

New member
WOW 30% is a lot based on your list/total price, probably one extra lens or M9

do you mind PM me with Arca contacts or if you feel comfortable, you can post it here for all of us thanks

is Arca based in France?
 
S

smei_ch

Guest
being an arca user living in france, i have no trouble to call them...
For a complete combo
Cambo is around 15 % cheaper than Arca
Arca is around 15 % cheaper than Alpa
A quick reality check:
Arca price for 28mm Rodenstock: 6'252.-
Alpa price for 28mm Rodenstock: 6'635.-

Where are the 30%? Better check your calculator.
And don't forget that the Alpa lenses are individually mounted and calibrated at Rodenstock, with knowhow and equipment no tech camera maker can afford.

And please: don't come with the prices for bodies (for all three manufacturers). If you buy a MFDB and 3-4 lenses the money will be in there.
 
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archivue

Active member
alpa max 5500 + hand grip 960 + viewfinder 1530+ distancer 160 + mask 146+ adaptator hassy V 1065 = 9361 $
RM3D 3950 €+ view finder 950€+ mask 100€+ hassy adapter 382€ = 5382 euros that's 7875 $
1500 $ (excluding VAT) less for the starting kit
and the alpa still can't offer tilt... so if you ad the tilt module, then you are at around 30% !

i wasn't talking about lens...
 

johneaton

Member
I've had my Rm3d for a few weeks now, so here's my initial take on 'likes' and 'dislikes' -- which of course are my own personal quirks and deficiencies:). My interests are primarily in architecture and landscapes -- previously I used a Horseman SWD with 35 & 55mm lenses (I have 35mm & 47mm for the Rm3d -- I use a P45+ back.

Likes:
1: The build quality, engineering and 'feel' are superb
2: The movements are geared and precise
3: It has tilt as well as shift movements
4: The large helical focusing ring has great potential for extremely accurate focusing (but more below)
5: The viewfinder is bright and clear, and the 'zoom' function for different lenses works well
6: It is usable hand-held if necessary

Dislikes:
1: Accurate focusing is a challenge (I don't use a ground glass as I believe accidents will eventually happen if I keep taking the back on and off:eek: -- and I can't afford a rotaslide, yet) -- I use a laser rangefinder (Leica Disto) to get a very accurate measure of distance to the subject and then use a table which Arca have kindly provided to translate this into a setting for the helical -- it works, but is less than ideal as I don't have good dof information (now if there were an iPhone app which took distance, the lens and f-stop and gave the helical values for precise focus and dof, that would be perfect!!).
2: Communicating with Arca is a challenge -- as I think everyone knows they don't have a web-site and in my experience getting them to respond quickly to emails is like getting blood out of a stone -- my dealer calls them in France to get answers, but it's less than ideal.
3: The 'tube' on the finder showing depth of field information is too fiddly and imprecise to be of practical use
4: There isn't a firm enough 'notch' at the zero point on the shift mechanisms (though there is on the tilt which is where it really matters)
5: I'm neutral on the handles (they're necessary!)

This is first impressions -- I'm off on a 3 week trip next week where the system will get a lot of use, so this list may well change!

Here's a jpeg of about my 10th shot with the system -- our local pier -- processed in C1, but nothing much beyond that
 
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JSK Rangefinder

New member
I've had my Rm3d for a few weeks now, so here's my initial take on 'likes' and 'dislikes' -- which of course are my own personal quirks and deficiencies:). My interests are primarily in architecture and landscapes -- previously I used a Horseman SWD with 35 & 55mm lenses (I have 35mm & 47mm for the Rm3d -- I use a P45+ back.

Likes:
1: The build quality, engineering and 'feel' are superb
2: The movements are geared and precise
3: It has tilt as well as shift movements
4: The large helical focusing ring has great potential for extremely accurate focusing (but more below)
5: The viewfinder is bright and clear, and the 'zoom' function for different lenses works well
6: It is usable hand-held if necessary

Dislikes:
1: Accurate focusing is a challenge (I don't use a ground glass as I believe accidents will eventually happen if I keep taking the back on and off:eek: -- and I can't afford a rotaslide, yet) -- I use a laser rangefinder (Leica Disto) to get a very accurate measure of distance to the subject and then use a table which Arca have kindly provided to translate this into a setting for the helical -- it works, but is less than ideal as I don't have good dof information (now if there were an iPhone app which took distance, the lens and f-stop and gave the helical values for precise focus and dof, that would be perfect!!).
2: Communicating with Arca is a challenge -- as I think everyone knows they don't have a web-site and in my experience getting them to respond quickly to emails is like getting blood out of a stone -- my dealer calls them in France to get answers, but it's less than ideal.
3: The 'tube' on the finder showing depth of field information is too fiddly and imprecise to be of practical use
4: There isn't a firm enough 'notch' at the zero point on the shift mechanisms (though there is on the tilt which is where it really matters)
5: I'm neutral on the handles (they're necessary!)

This is first impressions -- I'm off on a 3 week trip next week where the system will get a lot of use, so this list may well change!

Here's a jpeg of about my 10th shot with the system -- our local pier -- processed in C1, but nothing much beyond that

John, nice of you to share (LV on Phase 1 could help users eliminate extra investment such as rotaslide but I'm not sure if it's on their priority list) so far even if they had LV, P1 screen is of poor quality so I can't see it in the near future unless otherwise..
 

archivue

Active member
I'd love to have live view as well but keep in mind :
rotaslide provides more stitching possibilities,
and with a groundglass you can see all the entire final image, that's much better for composition.
so an RM3D with rotaslide give view accurate focussing with the nice helical mount and ground glass for composition... and you can have all of it + tilt... using a short lens.

only the sinat can offer the same... but no hand held shots, and no bellows for long lens.

i think i will go for the RM3D.
 
P

pupduda

Guest
May I ask, are you using film or digital back on your Arcas?
I havent used my Arca for a couple of years, after going over to digital, and wish to come back. I worked in 6 x 9 on rollfilm. Are MF/LF photographers scanning post-develop negatives? Is that the track in these digital days?
Many thanks for your time...
 

Christopher

Active member
I could be wrong, but aren't the movements of the arca and alpa smaller than the once on the Cambo ? That would be a main concern for me.

Another point would be that I would never want to use a sliding adapter on any such camera. I mean the great thing about them is size, if I add a sliding adapter I could start carrying around a real LF camera like I do now.
 

Steve Hendrix

Well-known member
I could be wrong, but aren't the movements of the arca and alpa smaller than the once on the Cambo ? That would be a main concern for me.

Another point would be that I would never want to use a sliding adapter on any such camera. I mean the great thing about them is size, if I add a sliding adapter I could start carrying around a real LF camera like I do now.

I believe we'll have an RM3D at our Atlanta studio next week. I'm hoping we'll have the time to do some Arca RM3D/Cambo RS comparisons.

We'll keep you posted.


Steve Hendrix
 

Paratom

Well-known member
I admit that I see this also as the biggest problem of the Artec.
On the other side I just hope that my back will cut it for some time.
I also hope that Sinar will offer more versions of the Artec in the future and maybe even be possible to change the connection of older Artecs to that of another back mount? I dont know if it is going to happen but it might.

On the other side I heard that avoiding an adapter helps regarding the precission of the ArTec.


I have been shopping for a technical camera solution which provides back shift/front tilt and swing, easy focusing to back positioniong all with accurate focusing capability - the artec is the one I have decided does the best job. however it doesn't tick one important box for me - and that is it comes with a fixed specific mount design currently Hy6/Afi or V mount- soon enough Phase One mount and H mount.

However - I think the design has two basic flaws. Firstly it provides a panoramic head - but does not have the lens board centered to the tripod axis and does not have in built nodal point shooting. all this can be worked around

however the fatal flaw for me - is that I am forced to choose just one camera back mount option. This is bizarre - as the artec will outlast any back and technology changes- I would prefer the Alpa system of interchangeable adapters to mount any back onto the artec frame.
 

markowich

New member
RM3D looks very promising, but I've only ever seen a demo and specs, never a production model -- but if you can find one, this may be the ultimate. I prefer all of my tech camera rise/fall and shift movements at the back for easier, seamless stitching, so that lets the Max out for me -- though if I had to go with Alpa I might consider the XY, but it looks pretty big having way more movement capability that really needed... Which leaves the Cambo RS. Personally, at this point in time, this body offers everything I'd want in a tech camera -- it's relatively compact, has ample rear rise/fall and shift movements at a reasonable price and availability.
i have the alpa max and the XY. in fact, i'd like to sell the XY since on travels the max is so much more comfortable. please drop me an email if you are interested.
i did try the cambo and found it less 'precise' than the alpas. but this may be a personal opinion without scientific backing. in any case the support which alpa provides me with is fantastic. wonderful people, completely dedicated to photography.
peter
 

jklotz

New member
I played with the arca at Capture Integration today. I found the focusing to be a real challenge compared to my old wide DS. That being said, most of my work is wide angle and stopped down, so I'm sure zone focusing would be just fine in the "real" world. I also have some concerns that it seems like it could be very easy to cross thread the lens mount when changing lenses, which would pretty much destroy the camera, I would guess. Other than that, I thought it was a really neat system. Love the fact that you can add some bellows, rail and rear standard and have a view camera....
 
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